Mango

I wasn't piling on Josh, but to your point in the last 2 weeks 4 HoF QB's have said Josh needs to be a better decision maker. Warner, Brady, Eli, and Peyton. I was simply adding some color that actually gave maybe some pause for concern outside of Josh himself, and that may actually be our former QB coach and new Offensive Coordinator. Warner points out early that Allen isn't getting his feet set on time, sometimes early sometimes late. He specifically says he has to pair his drop back with the routes. It was something that was an issue early in his career. Something that Dorsey as his QB coach was able to help remedy. It is certainly plausible that part of Allen's problems fall on his newest QB coach not addressing it effectively. This was my point. Specifically to your point about "those who blame Allen". Tom Brady isn't right all the time, Kurt Warner isn't right all the time, Eli Manning isn't right all the time, and Peyton Manning isn't right all the time. These guys are not infallible. But when all 4 seem of those guys align on a single issue it deserves some traction. How much much attention to it certainly varies, but if those 4 guys are saying you are doing the same thing wrong, they are probably right.

Good video from Warner. I tend to agree with this. Overall there is something going on with the offense and I am not sure if it is as simple as Josh, Dorsey, etc. Part of me is a bit excited, but Warner eluded to something I am suddenly a little worried about. Josh is having some difficulty timing his footwork to the routes and setting his feet on time (early/late). Dorsey has OC is certainly in charge of everything, but as stuff gets more granular like the fundamentals of your footwork and decision making, eventually this gets drilled into by the positional coaches. Whether we like it or not, Dorsey was part of the staff (QB Coach) who helped fix this issue with Josh. I think there is a chance some things get worse under Brady if these are Josh's issues with him as his QB coach.

Not that you are doing this, but people talk about dead cap without relating it to the cap hit with the player on the roster. Pre-June 1 Trade: The team does have to eat $31M in dead cap yes. But Diggs is would cost $28M to have on the roster. So it isn't a net $30M dead cap hit, the Bills only lose $3M. There is one positive to a pre-June 1 cut and that is that Diggs is off of the books entirely for 2025. Post-June 1 Trade: The Bills gain $19M for the 2024 season. Huge positive, especially given our cap situation for 2024. On the other hand we have $22M in dead Diggs money for 2025. Which would stink, but it is nearly identical if he were on the roster. So the net change is $0 for 2025. One point of contention to the bolded. This one is just me being a bit pedantic so I apologize. But the NFL isn't like the NHL, teams cannot barter cap dollars because contracts are not guaranteed. Diggs would have to sign a new deal. And frankly I see no need to. I think his contract is friendly enough for a trade. Once Buffalo eats his bonus money, Diggs becomes super easy to move on from whenever the trading team see's fit. See above. Diggs isn't untradeable next season. Depending on the date of trade Diggs will either save this team $19M or cost the team an additional $3M for the season. Any team that acquires Diggs in 2024 has a $19M cap hit for that season. That is 14th highest cap hit in that league year among WR. That is very good value. And because Buffalo has restructured Diggs about as far as they can, they own all the bonus money (which is what dead cap is), any team that makes that trade will save money if they cut/trade him in 2025 or beyond. (Just a disclaimer, I am not advocating we trade him. Just pointing out it is totally manageable) https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/

I agree to an extent. But even if this was the 85 bears defense, I think the offense would draw a ton of criticism still. The Diggs/Allen contracts are just too high to be stifled this often. I also think that since Josh is the franchise, when he struggles others around him take more heat for it whether or not they are to blame. Just to be clear, I think criticisms of the staff and the player are warranted. But to your point I have been pounding the table the last few seasons that we have long had some of the most highly paid front DL and/or LB groups in the league but have rarely gotten top 5 production from either. I know it is hotly contested at the moment, but I don't the defense has done "OK" this season all things considered and we don't have our starting DT, CB1, CB2, FS, and LB. There are a lot of pieces missing and we are getting winnable production out of them as long as the offense doesn't keep turning the ball over and can score more than 20 points. I think the biggest hurdle for McD is whatever is going on in the locker room/he has lost the team.

I remember this play and in the moment I was mildly annoyed, but in the context of the game it isn't even a blip for me. That said, I think he did a decent job of curing his route into the soft spot of the zone so he gets some points. My quick $0.02 on the play is that I think he saw the safety had the angle on him, so he thought if he slipped inside the safety he could get a block and slow him down and take it to the house. Otherwise he saw the play ending 10 yards (or whatever) up field. He is fast but not quick, he won't get up to speed quickly. This isn't a part of Gabe's game that holds him back.

I first read this as "Allen chants" after the coin toss. And frankly that sounds way better. Allen just starts a slow clap and generically chants "fans.........fans.......fans.......fans......fans....fans..fans..fans.fans".

This is a good point I hadn’t thought of. I’ll add on, I don’t think McD is the dud some paint him as. He also isn’t a world beater. Good coaches run their course sometimes. It’s exceedingly rare for guys in pro sports to have tenures like Ruff and BB.

Dorseys game against the Jets was more or less unanimously considered successful. I’m not trying to bring the other threads into this one. But I have some concern over Dorsey not planning this one and just installing Brady during the bye.

Re: Diggs, that’s not exactly true. It will cost us $3M more to trade him off the roster before June 1 than to have him on. And no additional cap hit going forward. So yes it’s $31M but he will cost $28M anyways. If we wait until after June 1 we save $19M in 2024. And eat his normal cap hit in dead money of $22M in 2025. So 2024 is actually a major gain for us and 2025 would be a wash. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/

I think when you see other QB’s with weaknesses you see them take a sack due to mobility, under throw a ball do to arm strength, or miss a pass do to accuracy. The tough part with Allen is we aren’t talking about a single skill. His base problem isn’t under throwing go routes that sometimes gets intercepted like a noodle armed QB but often time doesn’t. We’re talking about the problem actually being turnovers and turnovers all end the same. The other team gets the ball. All sacks or inaccurate balls don’t give the other team the ball.

It occured to me today that some speculated that McD was on the hot seat coming into this season and that is why Frazier "took a year off". Like Frazier the coach, love the man. But christ, if this team goes from McD to Leslie Frazier I am going to be upset. The reason I am suddenly bothered is because it is not non-zero.

Right? The guys basically fly's into a city on Wednesdays. Hangs out and asks some questions Thursday day/morning. Does a 30 minute pregame, 20 minute half time, and 30 minute end of game recap as a panelist, not even a host. Then probably sleeps in his own bed in his hometown in AZ Thursday night. And he probably gets a couple million to do it. And the thought is he will trade that for like $500k per year to move to Buffalo, sleep on a cot, and barely see his family. Sounds like a great gig.

Ok, I hear what your saying and that is a good idea. But one thing I am so confused about is the turnovers. I get the sense these are bad. And when we have them, we lose more. I wonder if they have tried asking him to stop? Has anybody asked somebody on the team if they maybe tried asking him to stop? Who is the asker I need to ask to do the asking of Josh to stop doing the thing?

I agree. I have been particularly hard on Josh this season specifically. At the moment he isn't executing, and he isn't hearing whoever is coaching him. Time to get somebody in who can get this get back to having fun. In hindsight I think McD's tight grip likely squeezed some of the fun out of him. After the last drive and the 12 men, I would have been open to giving Dorsey the reigns as interim HC just because I think if this team can go back to enjoying the game the rest won't matter as much, I don't think McD is a great CFO (Chief Fun Officer). Maybe we double down on the youth movement, and the success we see McDaniel's style is bringing to Miami and we bring in Caleb Pressley as the Supervisor of Morale. Anyways, this team looks miserable.

The offense was better last year. Dorsey called some lights out games this year. After a bad outing or two McD said he was going to be more involved. I get the sense everybody is gripping too tight and McD is probably to blame for that. If the offense is absolutely lights out after the bye, I coulda kinda-sorta, maybe, after a few drinks get behind a youth movement at coach. Double down on the young offensive coordinator like LAR and MIA, and give Brady the reigns in 2024. (ducks and covers) We could really make it dangerous, and after naming a totally inexperienced 34 year old HC, we could make Bobby Babich our 40 year old DC. Edit: But honestly, it would help maybe provide some continuity for Allen and the young guys we have coming up while shifting the priority to taking care of Josh long term. Edit 2: I am doubling down on youth here. Time to get Caleb Pressley to unretire and get this guy into the fold as the Supervisor of Morale" For those unfamiliar, he is now a barstool guy, but he was recruited to play QB at UNC. He basically both stunk and didn't take it too seriously and he donned himself the Supervisor of Morale. They kept him on the team in his made up role. https://www.thescore.com/ncaaf/news/588506

I am going to have to go back and check your reactions to any of my posts and rethink my position anything you agree with. This will never happen. And nor should it. I know I am thinking a million steps down the line here, but if this were to get approved at the level of the NFL, just wait until your employer starts asking for money back if you miss a monthly/quarterly/yearly target. This is crazy.

100% people in the org do. Guaranteed. This is a multi billion dollar organization not just built in product but fandom and its consumption. That said. It’s almost certainly not McBeane. But I assume there are people in marketing and PR who check the pulse on their largest and most rabid online community. I’m sure Beane isn’t asking for a TBD update but I assume we’re part of some larger fan pulse/temperature/update within the org.

I agree. After last night final defensive plays where we dialed up the same blitz two plays in a row. Plus the 12 men penalty, I actually became curious as to how much McD was spending time with the offense. Like I think it might be a lot. And this is the result. This years results were so up and down. And so different from last year. We’ve seen Dorsey call a lights out game. We have seen Josh do it. These guys are capable and one day woke up playing and calling garbage games over and over. The messaging has gone stale. If Brady can’t get Josh and Co. back to having fun out there it’s time to reset this whole thing.

The 12 guys on the field and same exact defensive call 2 plays in a row is what soured me on McD. Just, like, he did everything pretty much right all game long on his side of the ball. And to just botch those things. Then everybody’s pressers? And the QB isn’t playing well. Nobody is hearing what the coaches are saying. Maybe Brady turns this thing around on offense. But right now my money is on that he’s lost the locker room or very close to it. I think his message has gone stale.

It was a talking point with Shannon Sharpe today. He said repeatedly that Trevon Diggs wouldn't tweet it if it didn't come from Stef first. There is no way Sterling Sharpe would publicly put that out there unless it was a conversation they had actually had. Jeff Saturday also agreed, Trevon's tweets are Diggs thoughts. Stephen A. doubled down on his offseason statement that Diggs wanted out this offseason. He said he heard it from players that are currently in the league. Shower thought: If we used to read tweets on twitter, and twitter is now X. What are the posts? "Did you see what Trevon Diggs X'd?"

Meh. I don't like the way he handled Cincinnati. I don't like the way he handled camp. I don't like they he spent 6 months not putting this to bed. I don't like that he has his brother doing his bidding for him. Diggs outburst have nothing to do with content and everything to do with delivery. Being correct doesn't mean you can do and say whatever you want, especially when you are part of a team. I am fairly certain Diggs wants out based on his brothers tweets. If Tre is tweeting that Stef made Allen, you best believe that is a conversation that has happened between the two. The team is a mess, but it isn't a get out of jail free card for being part of that mess.

That is the year the league folds.

Playoff numbers? You are putting a lot of changing variables and brackets around data sets. I think if you want to talk about Allen's turnovers you have to zoom out, not zoom in, include some turn overs but not others, then include all turn overs but only certain games. Now I do agree he has had stretches where he didn't turn the ball over. But overall, the pattern has been that he tends to revert back to it. I think this is why it is frustrating because there are these moments of brilliance. Also, the Houston game is at least in part on Josh Allen and his turnovers. His very fist playoff game. I don't understand the need to dig your heels in on this. I gave you credit in my response. But I also said a lot of things are true at the same time, including some deficiencies at QB.

Curious what this offense looks like under Brady? The Sean Payton and LSU/Burrow connections are intriguing. Maybe we go on a tear. Josh throws 30 TD's and no INT's the rest of the season. Maybe Dorian Williams is the next Ray Lewis! LFG!

It is interesting you include total TD for Allen but then only rely on INT's without including fumbles. turnovers This is Allens 5th year averaging over a turn over per game or more. This is Mahomes 2nd and Burrow has only done it once. Both Mahomes and Burrow have been at 1.0 but never over. I think there is room for a lot of things to be true at the same time. We need better WR's. We need better coaching. Allen needs to do better at taking care of the football in the air and on the ground.