Mango

That is the year the league folds.

Playoff numbers? You are putting a lot of changing variables and brackets around data sets. I think if you want to talk about Allen's turnovers you have to zoom out, not zoom in, include some turn overs but not others, then include all turn overs but only certain games. Now I do agree he has had stretches where he didn't turn the ball over. But overall, the pattern has been that he tends to revert back to it. I think this is why it is frustrating because there are these moments of brilliance. Also, the Houston game is at least in part on Josh Allen and his turnovers. His very fist playoff game. I don't understand the need to dig your heels in on this. I gave you credit in my response. But I also said a lot of things are true at the same time, including some deficiencies at QB.

Curious what this offense looks like under Brady? The Sean Payton and LSU/Burrow connections are intriguing. Maybe we go on a tear. Josh throws 30 TD's and no INT's the rest of the season. Maybe Dorian Williams is the next Ray Lewis! LFG!

It is interesting you include total TD for Allen but then only rely on INT's without including fumbles. turnovers This is Allens 5th year averaging over a turn over per game or more. This is Mahomes 2nd and Burrow has only done it once. Both Mahomes and Burrow have been at 1.0 but never over. I think there is room for a lot of things to be true at the same time. We need better WR's. We need better coaching. Allen needs to do better at taking care of the football in the air and on the ground.

Or at least hold after the motion and redirect traffic a bit.

I want the Allen back that had a chip on his shoulder yelling "I don't know who the fork they though I was" in a playoff game. I don't think he is lazy. And I don't think he is Hollywood. But I do think he has lost that chip on his shoulder and has bought into his own hype a bit. He spent an NFL career running on moxie, physicality/physiology, and chaos, but you can't survive as an NFL QB off of that. I think he his feedback loop runs on false positives; the idea that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Allen, fairly early in his career completed a lot of plays that others couldn't make, but also that he maybe shouldn't have even attempted. Doesn't see the open guy, scrambles, play breaks down, chucks it off his back leg into double coverage, 30 yard TD. Cheers, pats on back, congratulations. He completed more of these types of plays with more success than anybody, maybe ever. But it isn't sustainable. Teams know it is his go to, so they sit back and wait for it. His game needs to takes its next step in its evolution. Peyton said this during the broadcast and it gave me pause. "If you have to throw it that hard maybe you should think about not throwing it at all."

I agree with basically everything. But I take a little issue with this. I switched to the Manning cast at half time and Eli said this (paraphrasing) after an ill advised deep throw "They are giving him everything underneath. Take the yards and march down the field. Does he know he is allowed to have a 10 play drive". We heard Brady say the same thing just a few weeks ago. Fire Dorsey. Whatever. At this point we have to, we are lost. But teams are playing us in 2 high shells and our QB is just ignoring it. Hire somebody that he will listen to. Bring in Palmer as our QB coach. Bring his HS coach on board. Hire both Manning's and Brady to QB coach Josh by committee. I don't care. But at some point the guy has to listen. In the last 2 weeks 3 HoF QB's have publicly said this is a problem.

I get it, it is great to have local guys like Cover 1. But everybody isn't right all the time. I think all sorts of NFL pundits are wrong sometimes, and a bunch of them have gold jackets. I think C1 does a good job, but as of late their content seems to lack depth. Last weeks "Everything is broken" video sort of flipped me on them. - Showing plays like "Look there are 2 receivers in Josh's field of view, and 2 receivers not in his view" (everybody can't and shouldn't be on the same side of the field) - "This guys was open in this concept against this defense, but what if he wasn't" (well then the defense would be different too) - "Look at all these zone beater routes against the cover 2 shell, what an idiot" (so the right routes vs. the right defense?). It just isn't compelling video breakdown. I get the sense they have peaked. I posted earlier, I think there is space to say we should have rolled Josh out, or we should have run the ball, or we should be under center. But I can't wrap my head around the idea that the entire play call is flawed when the QB ignores the defense and the correct read to an open pass catcher. Like, what didn't or doesn't work here? Pre-snap motion to identify the defense. Nobody moves, they are in zone. Josh's zone read is to his right. He is open. Josh looks left. Some of the mesh concepts ran right into the teeth of the defense, but it also left Kincaid alone on the perimeter. I find it a struggle to question the entirety of the play when we aren't even operating within the basics. Come at me when Josh looks right, Kincaid is covered and the rest of the field is blanketed. Otherwise the play had a check and an outlet for the defense they were facing.

I feel like C1 recently did the same with a catchy title, but then didn't actually provide any evidence to support the title. Nobody watched/listened. And it just became a circus. It has just become the most casual and generalized talking point. I don't understand how calling a play with the right checks to identify the defense, and the right route concept is called to beat the defense pre-snap, then the QB doesn't even look in that general direction, and the everybody's go to is the entire offensive design? Like what else do we want? I am open to talking about maybe running the ball or a sneak seeing as how well the OL was playing. Maybe talk about rolling Josh out and make the defense defend his legs. But ultimately the QB didn't understand the defense and where to go with the ball based on it. Dorsey isn't getting anything out of Allen. We need to move on and that is OK. I don't mind it. Josh Allen has to be the priority. But also it is like everything that happens is getting pushed on Dorsey, even when it works. After last night, I am actually coming around to thinking that McD is the issue here and as things get worse, the reigns get tighter. The tighter the reigns the worse Josh gets. And now we are in this cycle. Dorsey called a great game vs the Jets, Raiders and Dolphins. The Washington game was OK. Like WTF is going on here?

I have tended to err on the side of Josh is slow to read the play and I’ve certainly put my tinfoil hat on regarding some of his film studies. I still think that’s all part of the issue with the QB position and the offense. But last night brought me around that it’s time to blow this thing up. Josh needs to be better but the org around him is lost too. We have to protect the franchise QB. Even with the Jets game I didn’t think the offense would get as low as the last few weeks.

I think somebody is losing their job at the bye. It could even be McD. I think the issue might be that they don’t have anybody they like enough to call plays. I feel like I also saw McD covering his face during some drives on offense. What are the chances this jabroni is calling plays on both sides of the ball?

Josh is a problem. But it’s time to tear the whole thing down and rebuild around the franchise QB. At this point it doesn’t matter who is making who look bad, play bad, whatever. It’s bad at the moment and somebody else needs to come in.

Things are gonna get ugly. This thing is about to get blown up. It might not be the worst thing long term. Commit to surrounding Josh with some new and young weapons in the draft. Rebuild this thing from Josh on out.

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying here at all. He makes two different points. 1. He hates when teams put a QB in shotgun on 3rd/4th and short. Especially with having a QB run built into the play. Yes he’s complaining about Dorsey, but he’s complains about it across the league as well 2. “Why put a guy if you’re not going to use the information. Kincaid is your zone route and Josh is looking at the other side of the field”. This is his fundamental issue with the play. That we motioned, got a read on the defense, and didn’t even look at the proper receiver based on the information provided. So at that point he says “why put him in motion over and over again”. It’s not questioning the act of motioning Kincaid. He’s questioning why didn’t the QB use the formation it gave him. I think the shotgun thing is just a pet peeve of his he can’t help himself but to comment on. The criticism of the play is that the QB didn’t even look that way when he proactively put a guy in motion and got the information that said “throw to Kincaid”.

You gotta have the route in the playbook and Josh likes to make that throw as we see every week. I think defenses know he likes the throw and they wait for it. As much as we’ve gotten wrong the. Last few years, we’ve had some stretches where everything has gone right. This may be the university equalling itself out a bit.

Other QB’s have these games. I think that’s a bit of a reach that they don’t. I get it. The way we lost this one feels so brutal. Josh just has too many turnover though. Both the hand off and the INT was on him. The Allen roller coaster as too many ups and downs. Our QB has a decision making problem. But I’d rather have this than Pennington. A few quotes from Aikman and the Manningcast. - “That interception was on Josh. I know it Josh knows it. Every QB in the NFL knows it” - Troy Aikman -If you have to throw it that hard it makes you wonder if you should throw it at all” -Peyton Manning -“I’m a guy whose thrown a lot of interceptions, but that’s too many”- Peyton Manning -“He really didn’t want to throw the ball away there.” *awkward mumbling and grumbling about needing to know when to make a play and throw it away* -“Josh Allen should take the his entire defense out to a Buffalo Wing dinner for keeping him in this game. He is lucky it isn’t 35-15.”- Peyton Manning -“They’re giving him everything underneath. Take the check downs. Does he know he can have a 10-11 play drive. You’re allowed to have 10 play drive” - Eli Manning As the game went on there was a lot of talk about decision making from the QB. It started as “well he’s Josh he can make up for it” and the game more or less ended with “you can’t keep doing this to your team” Then obviously the infamous Brady/Allen exchange about checking it down. But it’s not really about checking it down, it’s understanding where you are in the game and making the right decision at the right time. https://twitter.com/siriusxmnfl/status/1720067066814685552?s=46&t=jFTEZzM9QlUz_auGjxtkuA

What are you talking about. The 2 minute warning passed before the TD after the run in first down. The TD happened at 1:55. If Allen were to go down at 2 or whatever Denver would have been forced to either burn a TO or the Bills would have worked the clock down another 30 seconds. Peyton Manning literally suggested it live. I don’t even agree with the idea from Manning. You take the points where you can get them. But that scenario was an option even if it was a bad one. It isn’t a made up one like you keep saying. I don’t even agree with the idea. You take the points where you can get them. There is no L to be taken by anybody because you stink at using words Not real doesn’t mean disagree.

Just a fun reminder that we don’t have a 3rd this year.

You should maybe work on phrasing if you think “not true” and “disagreeing” are the same thing/interchangeable. They’re not. Like at all…

You’re a dumb superstition.

Your words were “it’s just something you imagined would be better” I rebutted with it’s not made up, a pretty notable HOF QB mentioned it in real time. And you are saying “no it is because it’s a bad idea”. I’m not even arguing whether it’s a good idea or bad. In fact in my original post you quoted I said “I prefer to take the points when they’re available”. I also said “Pundits with real liked NFL experiences aren’t infallible”. But here we are talking about things being made up still….

Peyton Manning said something similar live. Like right when it happened he said “he shouldn’t have scored. He should have gone down in bounds”. You also conveniently left out the part where I said “force Denver to use one of their time outs.” It’s not just the 30 seconds off the clock, it’s them burning a time out. I get it, nobody is right all the time. I disagree with all sorts of pundits with real life NFL experience. But when a top 5 QB of all time says in real time, “should have gone down and forced Denver to burn a TO”, it’s certainly not made up.

A bunch of us saw this coming. We seem to forget EA sports is the one doing this to us. Allen didn’t have to be on the cover, but he did it, and now everything is ruined. We just have to hunker down and get through. We will be OK.

In his defense Peyton said the same thing. Cook was moving the ball. We had production from Murray. Go down at the one in bounds and trust your guys. Force Denver to use some time outs. I subscribe to the “score when you can”. But I get it.

I am not convinced everything falls on Dorsey. I’d make Babich interim DC. And I think I’d make Dorsey interim HC. Let’s sniff this thing out before the offseason and get some better data. How much blame does where? Judging Dorsey without McD helps eliminate a lot of variables in player evaluations. I think Dorsey wants to run a high flying offense. I have zero sources to back that up, but it’s what my gut says.