OldTimer1960

Way too early to give up on Troup (or any rookie). Just a couple of my recollections: 1. Eric Moulds looked like a bust after his 2nd year and he turned out OK 2. Pat Williams hardly played his first 2-3 years and then turned into a top DT 3. The Bills got Ted Washington after he washed out in Denver (or was it SF?). He was an after-thought when the Bills signed him. These are just a few examples of guys who it took a few years to get "it".

I am just not grooving on Cam Newton. He is clearly a superior physical talent, but there is zero evidence that he can read a defense and throw to well-covered receivers at the NFL level. He has only played 1 year of NCAA division1 football and running QBs often don't make it in the NFL. I am not saying that I know for sure that he won't be able to learn to read defenses and make the split-second decisions that an NFL QB must make, just that he hasn't demonstrated that he can and that is too risky for my tastes when you have the 3rd overall pick.

Jones is not described as physical either.

How do you know this is a reach, especially this early in the process. Players "rise" and "fall" right up to the draft with the combine still to come. That said, nobody outside of the NFL front offices really knows who is a reach and who is a steal and THEY don't even know.

Well, that is good to know. Everyone has a right to their opinion and you express your's reasonably without putting others' opinions down and that's great. However, I have reasons not to be so excited about Robert Quinn - 1. he didn't play last year at all. Now, I'm not viewing contact with an agent early as a huge red flag, but he truly had a full year off and how do we know that he wasn't a one-year wonder or that offenses might not have found a way to neutralize him if he had played this year. 2. Quinn played in the ACC - a major conference, but surely not the toughest. 3. North Carolina's defense was STACKED. How good was Quinn and how good did he look because offenses had to worry about Marvin Austin and Robert Carter too? Was Quinn the reason those guys looked good or did he look good because of them and others? 4. Can Quinn play OLB in a 3-4? He was a college DE, but is as undersized to play 3-4 DE as Miller is to play 3-4 OLB. 5. Can Quinn play 3-4 OLB? Is he athletic/fast/quick enough to play the run wide in the NFL? (Opposite question of Miller who is clearly athletic enough, but is he big enough?). To be clear, I am not saying that Quinn might not be a great choice. I am saying that there are no players who don't have some kind of question(s) attached to them.

Well, obviously, we all knew how the following guys that fit the Bills' needs at the time would turn out because we read some mock drafts by journalists who copied other journalist's mock drafts. Tyson Jackson - DE went before Maybin and while he has contributed hasn't lived up to his draft status Andre Smith - mammoth OT from Alabama was dominant in college and the Bengals nabbed him early. Has done nothing. Brian Orakpo - Has proven to be a very very good player. Would have been a better pick than Maybin (by far). Brian Cushing - lots of rumors of steroid use and, lo and behold, he has already been suspended for using. Was a dynamite player before the suspension, not clear how he will do after the bust. Larry English - LB, not much more productive than Maybin has been. Robert Ayers - was a very popular guy around here leading up to the draft and has done little to nothing so far in the NFL Clay Mathews - Was a 1 year starter at USC and was undersized until he put on considerable weight leading up to the draft ('roids? HGH?). Clearly a great pick, but he lasted until pick 26, so the Bills weren't the only team to clearly f-up and not draft him. There were lots of questions like "why couldn't he crack USC's starting lineup until his SR year? EVERY SINGLE YEAR there are draft busts and lots of them were projected to go very high. There are also stars from every draft who were passed over by lots of teams. Now, I am not trying to defend the Bills' draft record as they have clearly missed on too many high picks, but I am saying that there are no sure things in round 1 or anywhere else in the draft.

I don't think that there is any debate that IF there is a QB that has a high probability of becoming a top-eschelon NFL QB, then the Bills SHOULD draft him in round 1. HOWEVER, I'm not seeing that. There have been PLENTY of years where there were no top QBs, yet teams still spent high #1 picks on bad QBs because they were the "best" available that year. Yes, if there is a GREAT QB prospect available in this year's draft it is a No Brainer - the Bills should pick him without regard to any other needs they have. Problem is, I don't see any QB that appears to fit that description. If I am right (and I may not be), then it would be ridiculous to pass on good to great prospects at other positions (DL, OLB, WR) in order to "settle" for a maybe-good-maybe-bad QB prospect.

I don't know if I'd like Mallet even in round 2. He is big and I think his arm is GREAT, but he is not exactly mobile and behind the Bills' line that is bad. From what I've read, he hasn't shown the ability to read a defense consistently, either. I am more concerned with the (reported) inability to read a defense more than the lack of mobility, but an immobile QB who might be slow diagnosing what the defense is doing behind a poor pass-blocking OL doesn't look to me like it will result in success.

At about 6' 1/2", Nevis is conisidered pretty short for a 3-4 DE. I am not saying that he might not be able to play it well, just that he would be considered quite undersized (in terms of height).

Come on, almost ALL players in the draft need to "develop" some in the NFL. 21-22 year olds are not fully physically mature and certainly need to learn the more intricate NFL game. That is in addition to learning to be a "professional". I'll bet that you were better at your job a year or two after you first got it - why do you expect that to be any different for NFL players?

I'd say at 280lbs he could play DE in the 3-4. I don't know if he could play OLB or not.

Like you, I'd have loved for our rookies to have made a much bigger impact this year than they did - especially on a bad team. However, it IS a frequent coaching comment that players make their biggest performance jump between their rookie year and year 2. Cam Thomas managed 7 total tackles last year as a rookie. I wouldn't say that he dominated and by the standards of "nobody improvesafter their rookie year" I'd say he isn't any good. Now, I am not saying that Ed Wang will ever be any good (indeed, I think that there is a lot to suggest otherwise), but I am suggesting that writing off players after 1 year is not a good idea. I do believe that Peyton Manning was AWFUL as a rookie. I think he turned out OK.

I agree with you that many fans expect too much of rookies. However, I disagree that "first rounders should eventually be pro-bowlers". They definitely should develop into good players, but there are clearly not enough Pro-Bowl positions to cover accommodate any 3 years worth of 32 first round players. Now, add in that some positions might have 4-5 (or more) players from the same position drafted in round 1 of any given draft. There *might* be 6 Pro Bowl LTs across both teams, but some years that many are drafted in round 1. Also, figure in that some later round draft picks do become Pro Bowl players (eg Brady, Brees, etc) and there is simply not enough room on the Pro-Bowl rosters for every first rounder to become a ProBowl player. First round picks should develop into good quality starting players. Some might become Pro Bowl players, but to say a team "blew it" because a first round pick of theirs starts for several years but never makes the ProBowl I think is unfair.

...or be able to out-quick lumbering 320lb OL trying to block him. Now, to be clear, I am not necessarily advocating drafting Von Miller at 3. I also would prefer Da'Quan Bowers or Fairley (based on what I've read so far), but I am saying that you should not write Miller off just because he "only" weighs 237.

I don't think that it is accurate to say that Maybin's problem is that he weighs "only" 245-250lbs. His problem is that he has only 1 pass rush move (wide and deep speed rush) and that he does not have good lateral quickness. Miller has multiple pass rush moves, has elite quickness and has far more of a track record of production at the collegiate level than Maybin had.

Pittsburgh's James Harrison is listed at 6'0" and 242lbs. I think Miller is already well in the neighborhood of that and at 6'2+" might have a little more growth potential. I know that I wasn't completely filled out at 21 years old, perhaps Miller isn't either.

I'd consider a 3rd, but no higher than that. Kolb is a better prospect than anyone that they'd have a shot at in the top of the 3rd, but no better than a prospect that they'd be able to draft at the top of the 2nd (just my humble opinion)...

Do you know how big 6'3 and 237lbs is? I have a friend that competes in the "strongest man" competitions. He is incredibly big at 6'0" and 220lbs. I agree that I'd like a 250 pounder at OLB, but most 200 pounders can't move like Von Miller, let alone anyone larger. He is incredibly quick and fast. IMHO, in the Senior Bowl he showed that he can play run D, too. Yep, I'd like someone 6'4" 255 that could run like Miller, but there are VERY FEW of those guys. As for the comparisons with Maybin, Maybin has adequate to low lateral quickness and has only his speed rush as a pass rusher. Miller looks to me like an ELITE athlete who has shown multiple pass rush moves over > 1 season and can play the run, too. I would prefer Bowers or Fairley (a little), but Miller looks great to me.

First, I am confident that you cannot judge a draft class for at least 2-3 years. Second, I always hear coaches say that a players greatest improvement is between year 1 and 2. Not just Bills coaches, but many coaches say this - it was definitely one of Marv Levy's mantras. Also, I think that Gailey insisted that the rookies EARN their playing time rather than just give them time because they were drafted. I think that is an outstanding approach and was in part responsible for the effort that Gailey got out of his team each and every week (no doubt they didn't play well every week, but I can't think of any game where they didn't battle hard - even if outclassed and behind by a lot. Some teams play their rookies a lot even if they haven't beaten out the player ahead of them.

I completely agree, but unfortunately this isn't a great year for LBs unless there are some college DEs that can make the transition. Unlike many here, I like what I have seen of Von Miller, but if they want him they will have to take him at #3. He isn't as big as I'd really want a 3-4 OLB to be, but he isn't tiny at 6'2" 237 and is very close in size to Pittsburgh's Harrison (6' 240). Miller is ultra quick and has proven over the last two seasons that he can rush the passer. He played the run well in the Senior Bowl (IMHO). Beyond Miller though, there doesn't appear to be much to like at LB, however ratings do change over the months leading to the draft.

I like Kerrigan, but I don't know if he can play anywhere in a 3-4. He is very small for a DE in the 3-4 and I have read that he really isn't quite athletic enough to be an OLB in the 3-4. Maybe what I've read is wrong, but I think he might struggle in that situation.

Boy, I still don't see the similarities. NO OLB makes every tackle. Yes, there were some plays where he ran himself out of position on a running play. Every LB does that sometimes. Yes, I saw the play where the RB knocked him back a bit on short-yardage - that happens occasionally to every LB, too. With regard to the pass rush, I saw several plays where he put pressure on up the middle and some where even though he went wide and didn't make the sack, he did force the QB up into the pocket which is part of his job. I am not saying that he will or won't be a great NFL player, but I guess I didn't see where he was awful as Maybin is. BTW, there aren't that many 250+lb OLBs that can rush the passer like Miller looks to be able to. Yes, he will sacrifice some stoutness against the run by being a little undersized, but this team also needs pass rush. Again, I am not saying the Bills should draft him. I am only saying that I don't see the indications that he is a tremendous bust in waiting.

Miller is not that small. I don't know where this line of thinking comes from. He is 6'2"+ and 237 as weighed at the Senior Bowl. Poz really isn't any heavier than that and he is playing inside. I am not saying Miller is or is not a great prospect, but he certainly isn't too undersized to consider to play OLB in a 3-4 or 4-3 defense in the NFL. Beyond that, I really don't see the comparison to Maybin at all. Miller has produced at a high level in a very good conference for 2 years. Maybin had one good year at Penn State and wasn't even slated to be a starter at Penn State heading into that season. He "won" that starting job when the player ahead of him was suspended for drug use. Even further, Maybin had not played any LB in college and Miller has played there for at least 2 full seasons that I am aware of. Miller has shown that he has LB skills whereas Maybin did not. I have no issue if you want to find fault with Miller as a prospect, but I'd like to see more than "he is Maybin 2.0" because some people consider him a tad undersized.

I don't really see the LB depth in this draft. Granted, it might not take a lot to be better than the LBs the Bills have, but I haven't read a lot of good things about this LB crop.

I think EJ Henderson and Ray Edwards are too old for a team this far away to bother with. I'd love to see David Harris here, but I don't think he will even get to FA as the Jets will either sign him or tag him (hope I am wrong because he'd be a great addition). No thanks to the N.O. OL.