BADOLBILZ

The reviews on Teller were mixed as a rookie. Thomas was new to the position but his physical talent was known. He was a top recruit and stud athlete. I think the odds that Teller would become a second team All Pro when he played just 11 games.....not just "good"........and the chance that Thomas would emerge as a good receiving TE.....were not as different as you'd like to make it seem. It will be fun to watch Thomas next year he was really beasting at the end of the season.

The way to anticipate the possibility would be to take into account a guy transitioning from QB to TE and having to do it while learning 6 different playbooks between November 28 of 2016 and the summer of 2020. The Bills offenses of 2017 and 2018 were very different and both made it very hard to evaluate the talent on the team. After 2018 they gave up on Logan Thomas and Wyatt Teller. Two guys that would get a lot of scratch on the free agent market now.

Not 4 years. Thomas only played two years for the Bills. He was on the PS the last month of the season with the Bills in 2016 when he first decided to convert from QB to TE. He didn't do much with the Bills but those two offenses were nightmarishly bad. Especially first half 2018, historically inept offense. He showed something in year 3 as a TE......in Detroit.......in limited reps showed that he could move the chains............that's why he got the two year deal with Washington.

You and @GunnerBill and @NewEra can claim he's just a scrub on a bad team.........but you guys are wrong.........he's become a very good receiving TE. Watch the games guys.

And you were adamant that Josh Allen wasn't worth selecting and that it was the wrong decision at the time to select him. A classic case of something that only looks good to you(and many others with similarly self-assured opinions) in hindsight. Not comparing Allen to Thomas directly but it's just one of those deals, like Teller and a pile of bad free agent signings, that did not work out and are part of Beane's resume regardless of opinions of those moves at the time. Ultimately, if you get credited for things that work out........you also get credited for those that don't work out.

Of course the team switch might have delayed his emergence but even so Thomas was better with Detroit than Tyler Kroft was with Buffalo. Obviously the Bills offense in 2017/2018 was an abortion so not a great place to develop young talent but he looked notably better in Detroit in limited opportunity in 2019. But he wasn't likely to get the time that a Murphy got because he was inherited from Rex/Whaley. TE is a tough position to evaluate and project.......but it's a tough game for tough people right? Bottom line results........team would pay thru the nose for him now.

We are in agreement that Beane has been very inefficient with cap space.........that's why they are up against it with a QB still on his rookie deal. But you are discounting that they still thought that Murphy was perhaps going to return to his peak pass rusher level. That's why they signed him and he had a huge game with 3 sacks in the playoffs against Houston 9 months earlier so they might have thought he was finally getting back to being productive. Murphy as that near double-digit sacks guy that they paid him to be was NOT replaced. That's why we are having this Watt discussion.

Passing on Metcalf and AJ Brown to draft Cody Ford? Trading Wyatt Teller? Giving Star Lotulelei a $50M contract and then guaranteeing his salary last offseason to try to get back a little over $1M of his salary(which allowed him to take the year off with no financial loss and makes him an $11M immovable object on the payroll). The Eric Wood extension? Dumping Logan Thomas and then watching him become a top receiving TE(3rd in receptions 7th in yards)? There have been PLENTY. Fortunately you have to be constantly making bad decisions to not at least be competitive in the NFL. I like Beane and the growth mindset the organization has gives me hope that they will continue to improve in evaluating players but the list of bad decisions is not so small that a $7M cap hit for a part time player is the worst.

My enthusiasm for Knox is tempered from watching his awkward play but I agree that he could certainly improve and there is recent Bills precedent. In 2018 Logan Thomas was a Bill and a joke on this board. In 2020 the NFL's reception leading TE's : 1. Darren Waller 2. Travis Kelce 3. Logan Thomas Thomas is up there with Wyatt Teller in the "one's that got away" from Beane category.

Not even close to his worst error..........because of the way they cleaned house of key young talent and traded up so much in drafts Beane had to invest a lot in free agency and trades to make up for the personnel they lopped off. There were tons of bad decisions. Trading for Corey Coleman and then cutting him 10 days later and eating $3.5M cap hit was worse than keeping Murphy as insurance and most don't even remember it.

Watt wasn't a free agent but they had little choice but to either trade or let him go........and at 32 with a $17M base salary coming off a 5 sack season he wasn't a particularly valuable trade commodity...........they are in huge cap trouble and he was the most obvious start to the solution. The Bills though, could have franchised Gilmore and traded him for great value...........whether he was a malcontent or not is irrelevant because he wouldn't have signed the tender until any hope of a long term deal elsewhere was exhausted. It was a short-sighted decision at a time when they were making a lot of them. They hadn't even been to the playoffs once in 16 years. They were a laughingstock. That's not even subject to debate.

JJ Watt's 2021 base salary was actually higher than it would have cost to franchise tag Gilmore........not much difference at all.........and then they could have traded him. His worth was certainly a late first rounder and guys like Tre White and TJ Watt went late in that first round. We're welcome to laugh at Houston but in the offseason after the Rex firing the Bills were just as big of a laughingstock as Houston is.........the key difference is that the Bills weren't in the news for their dumpster fire because they didn't even have an elite QB or 3 time DPOY to lose. So many parallels........including the two dope HC's that got fired in O'Brien and Rex.

Which literally included not retaining or trading away any 1st or 2nd round pick still on the Bills roster from prior to their arrival (except Shaq, who they refused the 5th year option on). Again.........Houston was already going to be bad because of O'Brien's GM work. Letting Watt walk for nothing was exactly what McDermott did in not franchising Gilmore.........except Gilmore was in his prime and had 1st round trade value. Even though Gilmore became the NFL's defensive player of the year for our most bitter division enemy........and Woods has had several great seasons..........letting go of your elite franchise QB is another level of stupid.

Yeah he did come to a "good" team but it was one that was only a WC round type team even with a very good QB in Alex Smith. If it were just about windows then Mahomes should have been arriving at the end of theirs. Earlier under Reid they had been a defense-centric playoff team that one season had zero touchdown passes thrown to wide receivers. Then they aged out on defense and transitioned to an offensive team for a couple playoff trips and gradually became very one-sided on that side of the ball. The 2018 Chiefs that Mahomes took to the #1 seed had a very bad defense. They've gotten better as a team in the two seasons since. If that's just a window then it's a very big window. The window where Mahomes is involved is probably when his salary cap figure jumps up dramatically in 2022.

I remember last year in the lead up to the SB I saw a Barrett interview and they asked him if he'd be happy on the franchise tag and he said something to the tune of living in Tampa beat being in Buffalo. I've since assumed he wasn't an option. I also saw him on tv today and he said both sides were very optimistic that a deal would get done to keep him in Tampa.

@GunnerBill is being serious. Watson's 2021 salary is guaranteed. Same with 2022. Why are you here still?

Michael Jordan didn't even make it to the NBA finals until his 7th year...........he had more than a few fails in the lead up........and never won a championship when he didn't have the healthier and more talented team. That's not to detract from Jordan but the notion that he was infallible is far from correct. 2 SB appearances and 3 title games in 3 years as a starting QB in the NFL is pretty amazing.

I would be more than supportive of Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers deciding to sit out the 2021 season and finding other jobs that don't violate their contractual obligation to play for only those NFL teams! Doug Whaley couldn't just quit his job and take another NFL job either. He was under contract. He did OK financially, I think he just finished getting paid........his deal ran thru either 2019 or 2020........but professionally his rep was significantly harmed.

@GunnerBill issue is that McNair apparently hasn't been trustworthy. The Pegula's aren't trustworthy either. Gunner has also said he wouldn't work for someone he doesn't trust but in the past he has also said he would quit his job for a scouting job with the Bills. Another example of why I say these defenses for Watson don't hold up to scrutiny. If this situation were the Bills and Josh Allen these same people would have a different take on Allen's right to force a trade. IMO Whaley deserved to go out the door with Rex. After that end of conference PC where the Pegs were hiding behind the curtain.......I couldn't stand the thought of Whaley staying on. But they were vulnerable and rudderless so they "vote of confidenced" him by finally putting him in charge of a head coaching search........and then........FOR THE THIRD TIME........hired someone the GM didn't prefer. Your GM and HC need to be in lockstep. I don't feel bad for Whaley.......he should have had the balls to leave when they hired Rex and undermined years of personnel work done by the organization. All he did was harm his own reputation staying around to be the Pegula's security blanket.

Ultimately the "free Watson" crowd is bunch of people who are interested to see Watson moved because they know the Texans are going to suck. Some just want to see him play on a good team........others just feel bad for him because they are projecting themselves into his position or relate to him somehow from their own job. But the arguments are just excuses to justify "feelings". Whether it be "jesus freaks", "incompetent ownership" or in your case "untrustworthy ownership"........it's all a lot of vague fluff that doesn't stand up well to further inspection. Watson may change teams but he also may not..........and if not its not some sort of human tragedy as some would have it seem to be.

Ralph had tons of experience and still made bad decisions. And the Pegula's weren't entirely unfamiliar with sports ownership........they had owned the Sabres 6 feet into the ground already by then and had even owned a player agency prior to owning the Bills. Coincidentally, their own former employee Todd France was Dareus' agent when the Pegula's astonishingly OK'd the Dareus contract with no offset language for off-field behavior. PSE was a dumpster fire.........make no mistake.........hell, the Sabres still are. McNair is relatively new in the position. I hope he struggles because that benefits the Bills. But again, pot calling kettle black.

Yeah we went thru this when McDermott was hired. I don't necessarily see McNair as more incompetent than the Pegula's were..........they hired the Rex show.........they hid behind the curtain and sent Whaley out to explain why Rex got fired when it was Pegula who fired Rex after a disrespectful controntation by Ryan. They proclaimed Whaley the GM and let him spearhead the HC search........and then totally pulled the rug out from under him and canned him for the HC's buddy from the prior gig. Would you trust, and therefore work for, Terry Pegula? Like I said.......lotta' pot calling kettle black around here. Point is........perspectives change fast. The Texans are in a f*cked spot. Of their own doing, but we are familiar with this kind of thing. After what O'Brien did they are going to be an unattractive place to play for the next year or so.

The Director of Football Operations job is not a scouting job it's more like being the personal/executive assistant of the GM. In that broad, mult-tasking role they get a good overview of the entire organization.....and how to run it.......but they aren't involved in personnel decisions......unless the GM wants to rub his personnel department in a very wrong direction. My understanding is that Easterby served a similar role in NE and Belichick delegated a ton of authority to him..........to the point where if anyone wanted anything they came to Easterby first, which raised eyebrows because BB is a known micro-manager. He left NE looking to get a higher position in another organization. And he had choices. I have no idea what a VP of DoFO is when you already have a DoFO.........but this isn't a crazy turn of events. Brandon Beane was nothing more than a DoFO until 2015! He had only had 2 seasons of partial involvement in scouting before he became the GM of the Buffalo Bills. Are you appalled by that? I know I wasn't thrilled to be getting a guy who had so little experience in scouting players............but that's why the Bills have wisely surrounded the green-Beane with people who have..........and he was a huge upgrade over Whaley in the "executive" portion of the job, which is something the Pegula's really needed. There are a lot of jumping to conclusions and taking the side of naturally disgruntled, 4-12 football team players here.............but what's funny was when McD came in with his "process" and different way of doing things and then basically decided he had to gut the team of all its prime young talent because he didn't want to have to win over skeptical young players who had contract leverage......people were nodding in agreement. And that was a team that could have finished .500. The Texans are coming off of a 4-12 season. Lotta' pot calling kettle black around here.

Package deal? He and Watson to Carolina? I've heard that "jesus freak" Matt Rhule really wanted Easterby..........he'd probably take on Watson's salary to get him.

Yeah the Texans got one of those too. His name is not Jack Easterby.........it's Clay Hampton. Whoops. Thanks for chipping in it always brings a smile to my face knowing you can't not read my posts.😆