BADOLBILZ

The shoulder excuse plays for tackling..........though he injured it blowing a tackle in the first place.........but it doesn't really excuse the results against the pass. Teams just started taking advantage of his lack of instincts and the fact that he just didn't make plays on the ball in the air in his first two seasons. In 3 years in the NFL he has proven that the worst thing that can happen when you throw at him is the ball ends up falling incomplete.

Oh it's not that he just isn't good against the run...........he had a horrendous 114.3 passer rating against last year. He was probably worse against the pass than the run. So no, the problem with the thread has nothing to do with expecting him to be a great run defender.

Travis Etienne is likely closer to Kenneth Davis than he is a superstar from an era when it was harder to run the ball like Faulk or Thomas. We need to accept the reality that the type of athletes that played the RB position 25 years ago aren't signing up to play RB anymore.........and it's not a new development............they followed the money to more lucrative positions in the passing game on offense or rushing the passer or at CB.

I love the ball skills that Marshall has for a big receiver. He tracks the ball, adjusts, keeps his stride........he's a dude in the pass game. That ability to adjust to a low thrown ball can make a huge difference in a receivers potential..........Gronk is unbelievable at it. People take it for granted. Love the scouts take on Rousseau........the Calais Campbell comp is interesting........he is not as powerful as CC but his pass rush potential is greater. The big differentiating factor might be those 11" hands..........Campbell doesn't have those. Rousseau tackles people from distances/angles that we aren't used to seeing. It's one thing to have length but those mitts make his length so much more effective. The question is does he have the makeup of a guy like Campbell........who was a very slow developing prospect at Miami and in the pros before becoming a star.

Some fast guys do not have the ball skills to be a downfield threat and can therefore be utterly worthless as a downfield threat. You see it a lot with RB's. I can remember people wanting CJ Spiller to be split out wide to take advantage of his speed..........but anytime a ball was thrown at him from more than 15 yards away it was just as likely to hit his facemask as his hands. Being able to track a long throw and catch it in stride without having to stop your body or feet........or adjust to it and make a difficult catch........ is a different skillset than what is required of a slot WR. That position is a lot of short catch and throws.

If he doesn't get credit for the 2 pro bowls then his number is $12.7M.........if he does it's the franchise tag figure of $14.9M. $2.2M difference. Like I said........for $2M difference it's a risk not worth taking a year and a half before the start of that season...........MLB's take a beating...........forget the catastrophic Cowart and Spikes examples.........see CJ Mosely for a much more recent example. I'm also a fan of dangling the free agency carrot for inconsistent or underachieving players to see what they've got and aren't yet showing for one reason or another. Either way I don't think either of those cap hits in 2022 would be tenable. You may be right about them working on an extension.....but I don't think they are as sold on him being a great MLB as some think. McD made the rare exception of saying that Edmunds had to specifically play better at mid-season last year. That was not insignificant.......he rarely even answers a question like that with a direct answer. They know he has left something to be desired at this point.

IMO real difference making speed for a modest sized player doesn't begin until you get below 4.4 now. Etienne is a 4.5 guy at the combine IMO. Not a Jonathan Taylor 4.39 type. Fast for the limited athletes that play RB now........but I think people envision this guy devastating NFL defenses with his speed and he's not actually that guy. I also think he has a relative ton of mileage on him. 800 touches is significant for the quality of athlete that plays the RB position anymore. I know he waited to come out because the RB position was deeper in the 2020 draft but he came back and his ypc dropped from 7.8 to 5.4 and just didn't look as explosive to me.

Yep.......you gotta throw a rabid bobcat because of the claws........dogs you punt

I could definitely see Barmore if this was more of a wide 9 front and Barmore played the Dareus role of playing 1 tech on first down, 2 tech on second down and 3 tech on 3rd down with Oliver playing 3T on all downs like Kyle Williams did. Barmore definitely has 3 down potential if used like that. I just don't think Edmunds could handle that kinda' traffic up the middle though. Need a physical MLB to do that. Seems the trade-off here is always having a big lump of immobility at 1 tech so Edmunds can just shuffle from side to side with his arms extended in Boeheim's 2-3 zone.

I think people tend to overuse or misuse hyperbolic terms like "force multiplier" and "weapon" and it exaggerates what the actual value is.

Yeah what isn't hard to quantify at all though is a QB averaging 8 yards per pass attempt. That encompasses all of the targets.........good and bad.

Ehh......is 3.8 yards per carry and 8.3 yards per reception really an offensive weapon or still just a RB? Those are Kamara's averages in 7 career playoff games. His regular season #'s are better but giving the ball to even the greatest RB is probably a less productive proposition than just chucking it at Gabe Davis..........which should say enough about the relative value of the RB position.

1) What you don't seem to understand about the "running backs don't move the line" point is why years ago it became important to note in the first place. A top RB handles the ball 30%-40% of his teams offensive snaps in a game...........in theory he has FAR, FAR greater opportunity to individually alter the score/outcome of the game than any other non-QB. And yet......despite seemingly overwhelming odds that they WOULD be a key deciding factor in the outcome of game.........they have proven NOT to be..........which should be an eye opener. Instead your take is........"well the guys who don't touch the ball don't move the line either". 2) Assuming a better chance to beat the Chiefs because of any individual RB is laughably "on paper" thinking. Do people learn nothing about what happens to RB's when their team gets behind? They get taken out of the gameplan entirely. Derrick Henry is by far the most productive back in the league. The Titans have made the playoffs the last 3 seasons.....fell behind in the 3 losses........in which he ultimately carried the ball 49 times for a dismal average of 2.8 ypc. How does that change in KC when the Chiefs are on a 36-0 scoring streak passing the ball for huge yardage plays? 3) It's pretty well known that you aren't likely to get a great pass rusher after the top half of round one...........but the position is definitely A LOT more difficult to fill competently than RB and subsequently far more valuable and expensive to stock. The difference between a top pass rusher and a JAG is a lot greater than a top producing RB and a JAG RB........which is only a fraction of a yard per carry and is even more dependent on other players than the performance of a pass rusher. They say edge players and corners are "on an island" because they actually face one-on-one matchups that they can affect with less need for assistance. 4) So if the question is would Vernon Butler drafters Carolina be better off with Derrick Henry or Christian McCaffrey? The answer is........who cares? I mean outside of "fantasy" football owners. Those other teams aren't handicapped because they passed on a RB in round one......they have other issues. 5) Nick Chubb is a nice player.........but still his amazing 5.2 ypc career average is not nearly enough to take the ball out of the hands of a QB that throws for nearly 8 yards per attempt like Josh Allen. Ultimately this is why the running game is devalued. The value of a pass play dwarfs that of a run play. Use those early draft assets on key positions that actually advance your passing game........there are other ways to be successful running the ball than drafting a RB early. It's almost impossible to pass the ball at a high level without elite talent though.

While it's true that the value of the 5th year option has been diminished...........it's still important with key positions..........which is of course where you should be using your first round picks on anyway. The most obvious example is Josh Allen. That option definitely should be picked up. Even if it were the same value as a franchise tag........it's not the franchise tag so you could in theory pay Josh his option and then pay almost the same money in 2023 on the first year you used the franchise tag on him instead of having that value escalate quickly the way it did for Dallas with Dak because they only had him under contract for 4 seasons because he wasn't a 1st round pick. I get your point about THAT type of player being one you extend though............to which I would counter with a guy like Dion Dawkins. Suppose he were a first round pick...........played as he has.......admirably at LT but wasn't a Pro Bowler or top of the league guy........having that fifth year option at LESS than the tag amount provides leverage to negotiate a more team friendly deal. It's kind of the opposite of like what is happening with Tremaine Edmunds........he plays a lesser value position in the NFL.......collected a couple Pro Bowls despite not really being a top 8-10 MLB because all the stud MLB's are in the NFC........and now his option is worth more than he probably is to the team.

He's got an impressive frame........at 6' 7" for a LB he was a player I was inclined to follow..........but I could never really see where he would be a fit for the Bills. Of course I never thought they would put an edge prospect like Tremaine Edmunds at MLB and then later end up desperate for pass rushers...........so who knows how they would envision his role.

It does read eerily like a number of posts I've made here...........right down to referencing the 2010 rules changes that really made it a no-doubt-about-it passing league. Despite the OVERWHELMING evidence that drafting a RB in round 1 is a terrible use of a nice resource...........there will always be those who insist that THIS ONE TIME is the exception.

My favorite rookie stat combo of his was the 209 carries.........but only 7 receptions! As @DCOrange said.........he's the definition of one dimensional............and in that one dimension his career average is just 4.3 yards per carry.......one degree north of the equator.

I agree he was a tremendous pass rusher and would have been an even better fit in today's game. I think he got swept up in the losing culture. The environment around the organization was so awful back then...........Schobel got to a point where he just wanted to fly in for games and not have to be in Buffalo to practice.......a crazy demand..........Buddy Nix couldn't let things degenerate THAT badly so he basically had no choice but to tell Schobel to retire. If Schobel had played for the Patriots I think he plays at least another 3 seasons.

I do believe he opted out because, not yet knowing the consequences of doing so, Beane guaranteed his base salary to get him to take the pay cut. If his base salary wasn't guaranteed and he opted out, Beane could have cut him after the season and Star never sees that money. Like he did EJ Gaines.

I was making the same point the past month when I assumed it was a $2M difference between the option and the tag. Plus, then you are competing against that $12.7 gtd for just one season if you are trying to get a reasonable extension done. People are free to disagree but here are two simple reasons to not unnecessarily guarantee top dollar two years down the line to an off-ball LB when you don't need to: Sam Cowart Takeo Spikes One injury and overnight they went from All Pro to All JAG.

I'm not certain but I wouldn't consider $2.2M a big difference at all when it comes to committing to a fully guaranteed salary 2 years down the road for an off-ball LB. That's what's changed with this 5th year option.........the NFLPA doesn't get much respect but they certainly have succeeded in marginalizing the value of 5th year options. If they are worth picking up the option they are worth that much and 50% guaranteed on a 5 year deal. I don't think I'd put Edmunds in that category.......whether it was $13M or $15M per year.

I suspect they will too...........but as you know I generally am skeptical of their motives because so much of their success has only come after first blundering. I hope they are smarter than that..........it's simple dollars and sense.

Seeing that the 5th year option value with 2 Pro Bowls = the franchise tag value.............I think it would be illogical for the Bills to pick up the option. That's a huge amount of injury risk for what would only amount to a "vote of confidence". Just let him play it out..........dangle the UFA carrot.........and make him EARN that $15M 2022 tag rather than just picking up the option for $15M now.