BADOLBILZ

Yeah I just assumed that you irrationally taking great offense to me saying that it was an over pay IF the numbers were correct that you were OK with $4M...........because we'd already established that it was an IF scenario.............otherwise, why single me out for criticism with so many others commenting on the quality of a deal with those parameters? The answer is because you just wanted to take a cheap shot at me. Perhaps clarify your actual criticism next time if you don't want to be called out for it.

And btw........yes, there will be dead money and the cap hit is around $2M. So how was this wrong again? Just take the L.

This thread should be fun

Note how you criticize me for commenting on the reported numbers..........after about 4 pages of people already commenting on reported numbers. Ahem. Then you say I am ranting and emotional because I said "if" the numbers were correct.........that I thought $4M was about $1.25M more than Beane would give him. There was nothing emotional or unmeasured about my take. Again.......where is all the criticism of everyone else commenting on the deal? And I wasn't the only one who said it would have been an overpay.........why weren't you snarking at @MrEpsYtown or @Buffalo716? There was no reason for you to jump into the thread to cheap shot at me..........but you did..........because you are a hater. Pure emotional over-reaction on your part.

Take the L with some dignity, Hap. Admit it........you thought $4M/yr was a good deal.........that's why you were mad. I clearly stated that "if" the numbers were correct............we didn't notice you shouting down people who were saying it was a great deal at only $4M per year now, did we?

Yeah they need receiving depth and he has some upside in the slot yet...........but being a gadget guy who is a net negative on special teams is like paying half a player for one position.........so his pay wasn't in line with his value if he got $4M, IMO. If he was a good kick returner he would have gotten that $4M. He kinda' blamed McD for benching him but his numbers weren't good even without the fumbles. As much as they pay for ST'ers they should be getting good numbers on kick and punt returns.

It's really not. He had 178 yards receiving last year. Before he lost his ST duties..........his punt return average was very low and his kick return average was middling.........all while retaining his untrustworthy handle on the ball. If the Bills signed somebody from another team with that kind of track record for $8M over 2 years the board would be.........perplexed. 😉

They know I was right.........they're just tryna' troll me.......imagine people still trying that like it's gonna' work.

Oh I am aware of that......you took what I said way out of context because you read upthread where people like Happless were defending paying McKenzie $4M/yr........here is what I said: "I had him returning to Buffalo at $2.75M....(basically a $2M hit on the Bills cap).....if he really got $4M that's another $1M type over-pay." Note the "if he really got $4M part....." This contract is much more in line with what he is worth based on achievement. Despite all of the talk about him leaving there wasn't a better fit for him anywhere.

If you don't think handing a 2 year $8M deal to an undersized 6th year receiver who can't handle kick return duties and is coming off 15 active games with only 178 yards receiving on the season is an over pay...............then you aren't very good at math........so maybe having a clock you have to set manually isn't right for you.

Oh I'd guess that the McKenzie cap hit is only $2M or so in 2022 but that there will be dead money if cut after the season...........and they are already going to be borrowing money against the 2023 cap........and I expect that they will likely want to move on from Dirty after this season. At least I'd hope they'd find a couple WR in this draft that they think are keepers. As for Engram...........$9M is just absurd if that rumor is true. I understand that GM's get obsessed with players they wanted to draft and maybe that's the deal with Beane and Engram but he hasn't earned that kind of contract.

$4M for a 178 yard receiver McKenzie and $9M for a 400 yard receiver Engram.............yeah Buffalo would be getting bargains because of Josh Allen.

No doubt.........he is a fumble factory on special teams but even when he catches it and holds on he is a lousy punt returner and JAG as a KOR guy.........those days are over. He will be a slot and gadget guy.

I had him returning to Buffalo at $2.75M....(basically a $2M hit on the Bills cap).....if he really got $4M that's another $1M type over-pay. The investment is large enough that he's gotta' be considered the starting slot receiver...........but also small enough that you can see them paying a high end veteran TE to pair with Knox and using more 12 personnel.

UDFA College

First.......when Ralph thought he had a SB team he was a BIG spender........his Bills paid top dollar for Kelly, Reed, Bruce and Thurman. He was cheap when he thought he couldn't win......which was more often than not due to his poor stewardship. He wanted to win on the field but was more than happy to win on the ledger by pocketing big money with his low overhead arrangement in Buffalo while many of the newer owners who were working hard to advance the future of the game were servicing franchise purchase and stadium debt. As for now.......we keep hearing about how the Bills are now a "free agent destination" and that free agents will take less to play in Buffalo with Josh Allen. But until we actually SEE that.........it's just talk. And even if that actually becomes a thing...........they still need to be able to find their share of ascending talents and cheap scheme fits in UFA..........which has been a huge weakness of Beane and his pro personnel director Malik Boyd.

It wouldn't be surprising if they signed Saffold.......veteran LG, used to be very good, wouldn't count in comp pick equation........but he's on the precipice of washed. Paying him $5M-$6M to save $8M releasing Daryl Williams would not be good cap work.

Beane very clearly stated that priority 1 this offseason was doing a better job protecting Josh Allen............and being that the free agent OL market isn't good........one way to do that is to play more 12 personnel and add a TE who can block. Now Beane spoke about the team needs after the AFCCG loss in KC last year............and promptly didn't address any of those needs in UFA..........so I guess he could do the same this offseason. But if we are taking him at his word..........his word was that protecting Allen was priority #1. Changing slot receivers out doesn't really address that.

Patrick Mahomes says he has no problem getting Tremaine out of the frame..........Logan Wilson........that was much more difficult. Height and length only make a significant difference if the coverage defender is able to identify what the QB is trying to do and be in position to stop it. And a total lack of ball awareness/playmaking skill....... like Edmunds has shown.........leads to teams not being afraid to attack him even when he seems to have good coverage..........hence his 110 passer rating against and volume of TD passes allowed the past two seasons. Brandon Smith is often cited as having the same issue as Edmunds........a lack of instinctive play...........but on tape he does appear to be more of a play maker. He might be getting a bad rap because of the similarity to Tremaine.........who has clearly been the disappointment sandwiched between some really good LB's in his draft class........Roquan Smith, Darius Leonard and Fred Warner.

That 2018 class was terrible and the lost cap space is still hurting them now............and it came after Beane had spent about 8 months telling us how badly the prior regime had handle contracts. And where the prior regime had found gems like Lorenzo Alexander and Zach Brown for dirt cheap.........Lorax became DPOY candidate and Brown lead the NFL in tackles..........and then they signed Hyde and Poyer on reasonable contracts that they outplayed. But the moment Beane came in they started paying $6M out to reserve LB AJ Klein and reserve CB Josh Norman........and $7.5M to swing tackle Ty Nesekhe.........clear and obvious over-payments. The only great value Beane has found in UFA was Daryl Williams 1 year deal in 2020............everyone else he's paid top dollar for or outright overpaid. They have been bad at finding value.

I think the fact that he wasn't extended after his 3rd season indicates the Bills aren't actually satisfied with his play. They might be in enough of a cap bind where they'd extend him at the right price to save some cap room now.....but if they were as happy with his play as some seem to think he'd be on a 5 year $90M deal right now. Beane's "I know the fans are down on Tremaine.......but I'm not in that camp" comment was the lowest of praise and quite comical.

$40M dead cap plus taking on $13M Tremaine Edmunds.

Gronk is a HOF'er who still performed at near his career norms in 2021.......he produced big numbers in an offense with better targets than the Bills had. Dawson Knox has had one "prime years" Scott-Chandler-level 500 yard receiving season............the other two seasons he was JAG with bad hands. There is a very significant gap between their production and simply projecting that out is no different than saying that 2015 Mike Gillislee or Karlos Williams would have been better than Adrian Peterson if they were given as many carries. On an individual player basis.........ACTUAL production matters a lot. As for him making it clear he is "still pissed" at the Bills for not drafting him............would love to see that quote. Considering that the only person of note from ownership down who was with the organization at the time Gronk was drafted is the cap guy, Jim Overdorf..........that makes zero sense.

Like I said..........is that valuation based on what the player could be worth to the team?............or is it based on what you have left after some suspect valuations/contracts? The Bills have $11M aav tied up into their slot CB position of Johnson/Neal for the next 3 years. IMO they could have addressed that more than adequately for half that. And probably should have now that they are out of their rookie QB window. Those are just the two most recent multi-year deals Beane has handed out, as examples. Beane seems to be fine with paying over market for lower contract value positions..........that is cheaper on a per instance basis.........but it adds up........because there are A LOT more "non-starters at premium positions" than there are those who are.

Knox wasn't good enough to command those targets...........and Knox wasn't competing with two 1,000+ yard receivers for targets like Gronk was in Tampa. Gronk is a HOF'er with proof of elite production........a CAREER 15 ypc receiver...........when Knox has ONE SEASON where he actually puts up big time numbers then we can stop pretending that he warranted them and simply did not get them.