Alphadawg7

Excellent. This is a good move IMO.

I am not connecting the dots on this to the coaching staff.

Yeah I think Fant would be an ideal guy to draft, and I would love to see us do a small trade down and pick up more draft assets and take him. BUT...that is assuming we shored up WR in Free Agency, especially with guys who can go deep and get the ball. If we say signed just one solid WR, then I would still prefer to go WR in the first at that point and target one of the other TEs maybe in the 2nd or 3rd. Its imperative we get guys who can both get deep and also go get the ball and catch it. Allen is too big of a weapon to not have that dimension to our offense.

Mentioned this in other threads, but wanted to draw a little more attention to this fact as another indicator of optimism going into the offseason. Josh Allen was 5-5 in games he started and finished. However...while that is solid on its own for a rookie, especially considering all factors, think about this: Had it not been for a drop by Clay in Miami and a Special Teams blunder against the Jets, Allen would have been 7-3 as a starter. If he doesn't get hurt in Houston game, I think we most likely win that game which would have then also had him at 8-3 as a starter. Think about that for a second...Despite all of the following, Josh was literally 2 single plays by this team away from 7-3 and probably had another win taken away when he got hurt against Houston: Being a rookie who started the year off without a QB Vet around him either Not getting even half the reps in preseason and camp because he was in a 3 way QB battle Poor pass protection Terrible run blocking resulting in terrible run game (outside of himself) A WR1 for most of season that was slow, disinterested, sloppy and couldn't catch in KB A WR group as a whole that struggled with separation and catching most the year A TE who had probably his worst season in his career And a significantly down year for what was supposed to be our best offensive player in McCoy, who saw Ivory run more effectively than him I honestly think we will win the division next year between his continued development, having a year under his belt, a full offseason as unquestioned starter, and the additions we all expect to come in around him on the offense this year.

What was most impressive about that was how little effort it took for Allen to do that...he was escaping pocket and just flung that down field like it was nothing. Imagine him next year flicking pass downfield to streaking WRs with speed from a clean pocket ?

Well considering I wanted Allen after Mayfield went #1 on draft night, I guess I should say...No my opinion hasn't changed because I was high on him on draft night and still am. Now, at this exact time last year, I wanted nothing to do with Allen. It was his work with Palmer and how much he improved and blew me away during the draft process that had me drooling over this kids potential. I guess saying my opinion hasn't changed isnt totally accurate. Because now my opinion has gone from excited and optimistic to completely sold that we got our guy and that he will be a top 5 QB over his career and has the potential to be the best QB in the NFL during his career. I dont say that as a "homer"...I am floored by his athleticism, arm strength, and leadership. Add in his commitment to the game, his love for this team and Buffalo in general, his work ethic, his intelligence and his ability to be coached up and man this kids future is as bright as I can remember seeing. Well I was right there with you. I was championing Mayfield most the CFB season when many people would mock me and claim he won't even go in the first round when I kept saying he was the best QB in the draft. And on draft night, Allen had worked his way up to my #2 spot and wanted nothing to do with Rosen.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but there are a few things to consider too in this regard. We had several injuries at DB opposite Tre and all were young players we had to rotate around Edmunds is only 20 and learning to play MLB, so I think as he gets better, especially at play recognition, it will certainly impact our Redzone defense We put the defense on the field a lot and frequently with short fields in several of the games you mentioned due to offensive issues So while everything you said is quite accurate, I do feel like going into next year its reasonable to expect this defense to be better with the growth of our young guys on defense and the expected improvement with the offense.

Not surprised and needed if true. Our ST was about as bad as I have seen in years. And that's saying a lot because we have had our fair share of crap ST units. Once again, assuming this is true, I love that McD and Beane see and recognize where there needs to be improvement and go out and make the change. My confidence in the McBeane regime is as high as ever and cant wait to see how they go about Free Agency and the draft.

This is why "stat" checking in the NFL is very misleading. Football is the one sport where stat metrics are very unreliable because there is so much context needed and every single player on the field completely depends on other players to do their jobs well in order to their own job to the best of their availability. For example... Its harder on the defense as a unit to do their job if the offense and ST are struggling and forcing them onto the field frequently with 3 and outs and short fields to defend. DB's depend on the guys up front to get pressure on the QB, because most starters can pick apart a defense if given lots of time to throw and makes it harder for DB's to hold coverage for long periods of time. DB also depend on the help behind them with safeties in how they cover a route/play. Linebackers need those guys up front to tie up blockers to get through the line. Defensive lineman depend on the secondary and linebackers to hold coverage tight to buy them time to get to the QB. Same on offense, all those guys need the guys around them to do their job in order to do the best they can at their job. When you look back at this season, the defense had its worst games while Allen was hurt and we had a putrid offense with NP and DA. We honestly would have probably finished #1 in the NFL on defense had it not been for the Allen injury. So the defensive unit looks more up and down given who was playing behind center. Overall, we have a playoff caliber defense, even championship caliber. We are one more elite player away from being a truly elite defense. And Edmunds has a ton of potential to develop into that Elite player right now and we have other very promising young guys going into next year that include Taron, Levi, and Horrible Harry.

Its more important today in a pass happy league to have a MLB with range than a "run stuffing MLB" for one. Second, he is not even 21 years old. 3rd, he was learning a new position too. Lastly, he compiled all those stats despite also missing a little time getting banged up. So for me, I think these types of criticism are bit over exaggerated. And at the end of the day, him not being the "run stuffer" as a rookie you think he needed to be had almost no impact on our record as we finished the season as the 2nd ranked defense in total yards allowed, and offense and Special Teams is where we lost games. Now consider the total picture: Josh Allen as a "raw rookie" ended the season 5-5 in games he started and finished. He was one dropped pass by Clay and one Special Teams mistake away from being 7-3 as a starter on an offense that he had little help around him. And had he not gotten hurt in Houston game, he likely is 8-3 as our starter. I think its pretty safe to say that this defense (as is) was already playoff caliber and at championship levels if they have more help from the offense. Factor in year the expected growth of young guys on defense this next year in Edmunds, Taron, Levi, and Phillips and this defense can and should be even better next year. There is a ton of reasons to be very excited about Edmunds, even if he never reaches the "run stuffing" levels you want from him.

Sign one of either Tate or Tyrell. Then also sign Humphries. Enter draft with: WR1 - Tate/Tyrell WR2 - Foster WR3 - Humphries (in a Kupp type role, could also compete for #2 spot) WR4 - Zay (lets see how he shakes out when competing against better WR's for his roster spot) WR5 - McKenzie (depth and ST guy) This is a deep WR class once you get outside the first 15 picks. We now have no pressure to go WR in the early rounds unless there is a guy they love. We can now maybe look at a guy like Fant or one of the other TEs in rounds 1 through 3, especially since this isnt a good FA year for TE. Also focus on OL and other needs early too. Go out and also bring in some vets on the OL and sign a RB like Ingram or another quality vet to share the load with McCoy next year...and BOOM, divisional crown is a real possibility and we could be a dangerous team next year.

Obviously, we didn't always see eye to eye this season on the assessment of the QB situation. But, unlike a lot of posters around here, I don't let those disagreements cloud my ability to acknowledge quality posts from said individuals we don't always see eye to eye with either. This was a good post from the perspective of not yet being completely convinced on Allen. I am still higher on Allen than you, but these are the kinds of posts that are fair and reasonable if you are in the position of not yet being sure about Allen. Me personally, I couldn't be more confident in Allens future. It's not a homer stance either, its from how much growth he has shown several times since this time last year. This time last year, I had him as a guy I wanted nothing to do with. But he really won me over with all the improvement in short work he did with Palmer and sky rocketed up my rankings going into the draft as the #2 guy I wanted behind only Mayfield. Then he shocked everyone and looked more ready to play once he got on the field and narrowly won the job to start week 1 had it not been for a hiccup in 3rd preseason game. Then to see him go into Minnesota and blow us away in his first road start was another big moment. Then after some struggles and an injury, comes back better than ever against a tough secondary in Jax and has a very strong stretch to end the season. Then goes out in final game with his best game yet. Crazy thing is, despite having a poor cast around him, ESPECIALLY when KB was here, he was one dropped pass by Clay and a Special Teams Blunder away from finishing the season 7-3 as a starter in his rookie year instead of 5-5. Had he finished the Houston game, we had good shot to win that too and he could have been 8-3 as a starter. So for me, I think his nomination of physical gifts, competitiveness, work ethic, intelligence, and ability to be coached up is all there and he is going to be a high end franchise QB for years to come, and even top 5. Consider this too he has never had high level coaching until he left college...In High School he never committed to football as he was a multi sport athlete which is why he was really recruited. He then played at JUCO and Wyoming, not exactly the coaching dream teams there.

I agree with just about everything you said here, other than I am a little more optimistic on Metcalf emerging as a consensus top guy on the board. Its gonna be him or Harry I think most commonly listed as the top guy, but that doesn't mean they are first off board either. I also very much agree that there are probably 7 guys at least that could right now be the first WR taken. Its very deep class once you get outside the top 15 picks. You may also know more than me on Metclaf, I didn't watch a lot of his games, so most of what I am basing on his video of him out there. And we know those don't show the concerns of flaws and mostly focus on the big plays. But in those plays, I was just wowed by his foot work, high pointing the ball, hands, size, speed, etc. Combine and offseason will be fun though to watch this all play out and see the rankings start to move around and shake out.

@CommonCents You "laughed" in your emoticon reaction to this ? above post where I challenged your proclamation that Robby Anderson is a top 10 WR in the NFL. Do you care to elaborate on which guy I put into the top 10 that Robby Anderson is better than? I mean if its "funny" that must mean you think the top 10 I listed off the top of my head is laughable and Robby must be clearly better than at least one of those guys. So who is it?

Have you watched his highlight video? He is smoking people left and right on his routes. Granted, its a "highlight" video, but he has shown pretty foot work and torching people. Granted, I dont watch Ole Miss games regularly, so you may have seen more of him than me, but his footwork looks legit in the stuff I have been able to watch. Again, though, I am not an expert on him, just been wowed in what I have seen.

I agree on Foster, its Zay I am not sold on. I would rather have Foster, 2 vets, and a rookie in our top 4 than Zay be there. I honestly am highly skeptical Zay will make this team next year. I want to like him, and all reports is that he works hard. But he just isnt good in any facet of the game after 2 seasons. I want to see how Zay and Foster look competing against more talent at WR here. I know Foster is a lock, and should be, but Zay is a guy I think will start getting lost in the shuffle if we had better WR's competing for on field time around him. He just doesn't stand out in any part of the game. I would sign Tate/Tyrell. Then go sign Humphries. We enter draft with those 4 guys plus McKenzie as a 5th WR/ST guy. Now this opens the draft all the way up to maybe look at a TE early instead of a WR like Fant or Orkwuegbunam in the first or 2nd round, or even the kid from Stanford in the 2nd or 3rd round while drafting OL as well. This is a deep WR class, so we could still grab a good WR prospect in 3rd ro 4th too. Open up season with: QB - Allen TE - Fant or Orkwuegbunam WR1 - Tate or Tyrell WR2 - Foster WR3/Slot - Humphries WR4 - Zay WR5/ST - McKenzie Sign some veteran OL guys and draft one or two as well early. Now go sign a RB like Ingram or some other quality RB to split the load with McCoy and damn we will be set for a big jump on offense in 2019 and compete for divisional crown.

I agree that today #9 is probably a reach on any WR, but my expectation is for Metcalf to shine at combine and cement himself as the top guy and worth of a top 15 or even top 10 pick. And yes, agree on Harry too, he is second on my board before the combine. Going to be an exciting offseason for sure to see how these prospects do at the combine and more importantly to see who we look at in Free Agency. I do also think its possible, maybe not likely, but certainly possible Beane could try and trade for one of the potential high end WR's that could be available this offseason out of AJ, Julio, AB, or OBJ. Giants saying no truth to OBJ rumors, but that doesn't mean things won't change or that its completely true. Tomlins press conference today and ABs tweet during it along with AB now following the 49ers makes me think there is more and more possibility he could be moved, albeit probably not until that 5 day window where the Steelers can take his dead cap hit down from $21M to just over $7M, and that will be after the draft and free agency is over. So doubt he will be the plan for us regardless. But AJ and Julio certainly could be in play and wouldn't be shocked to see Beane look into them either. That being said, I would still rather keep our assets and sign Tate or Tyrell then draft a WR personally. I certainly would not hate getting AJ or Julio, but I think the WR market is good enough to where we dont need to part with draft assets and this draft is deep with WR's, so if we wait til 2nd round we can still get a nice prospect.

If Metcalf shows well at combine he won't last that long, we would have to take him at 9 or maybe try and make a short trade back. Late first just won't happen, hes the most complete WR in the draft and legit top end #1 WR prospect. His neck injury isnt going to scare teams away as long as he checks out. Now, if his combine isnt as good as people expect or anything comes up in draft process that adds concerns around his injury being something that could be a risk, then yes he could slide. But so far, all reports suggest its not anything to be concerned about moving forward. And because it was his neck and not a leg injury, I expect him to shine at the combine.

That move at 1:04...FIRE!

I totally agree that we need to add a vet, in fact, I think we need to add 2. I do think Metcalf will enter draft night as the consensus #1 WR on the board after he shows at the combine. For me, he is the one guy in the draft that has all the pieces to be a legit #1 WR. The guy I am "not there" yet on is our own Zay Jones. Can he keep getting better, sure, but right now I dont see him as anything more than a 3rd or 4th WR. I am worried that the last Dolphins game is going to overlook all the times he completely let this team down. He doesn't excel in a single area of the game. Look at the key areas of the game for a WR: Route Running - Too easily taken off his routes by opposing defenders. In fact, in several games hes been just manhandled. And even when not manhandled, he has run sloppy routes at times. I like his effort (or at least the effort reported by Allen and the staff) in practice and to get better, but for a guy without high end speed, he has to WIN a LOT more on his routes than he does. Hands - I mean this has been on full display for 2 seasons...just way too many drops. Contested Balls - Making his drops worse, he has been terrible at fighting for contested balls, and when you got a cannon like Allen under center, you better be able to win matchups and fight for balls. Coming back and adjustments - Another area that its been frustrating is how poor hes done at coming back to balls, especially when Allen is escaping pressure. Ironically, he still gets a lot of his production on these type of plays, but usually when the DB loses him because its hard to hold coverage that long for any DB. But there have been a lot of times where Allen is escaping and needs him to come back and he just doesn't get there or fails to win against the DB. This is why that, not only do I agree we need a Veteran, but I think we need 2 because I dont think Zay should be a lock for this roster next year, and certainly should NOT be a lock for the top 3 spots at WR if he is here. I am totally fine letting him to try and WIN a job against legit competition, but I think we are gambling way too much if we go into the season with our top 3 WRs as Vet/Rookie and then Foster and Zay who both have struggled catching consistently (although Foster has really grown a lot, so he has tons of potential to keep growing as a WR). I would really like to see us make a play for Tate (or Tyrell) and then add a guy like Humphries to come in and compete for the slot. Then take a WR in the first 2 rounds in the draft. If we got Tate, we would enter camp with Tate penciled in as the #1 and Foster would be the fave to start opposite him initially with what ever rookie we took battling to move up the depth chart. Humphries can be our Kupp type role out of the slot and Zay can compete with him for that role. Resign McKenzie as a 5th or 6th WR with ST abilities.

Metcalf is absolutely worthy of the 9th pick

Top 10? Wow, I’m not even sure his own father would be so bold to say that. And sorry, but guys aren’t top 10 because they are fast and tall. I can name 20 better WRs right now without even looking it up, let alone top 10. In no particular order, these guys easily make up the top 10: AB, OBJ, Hopkins, Thomas, Green, Julio, Davante Adams, Evans, Hill, Keenan. Anderson is not even remotely close to bumping any of those guys out. Next 10 (and some of these guys could be swapped into the top 10 themselves): Baldwin, Diggs, Thielen, JuJu, Cooks, Hilton, Woods, Landry, Watkins, Tate, Amari Again, he isn’t in that group and there are several other WRs that could easily be listed in the second group of ten also before Anderson. Guys like Edelman, Davis, Fitzgerald, Alshon, Robinson, etc. Not to mention some of the young bucks like Ridley and Williams for instance that all have promising careers ahead of them. He may one day get there, but it’s laughable to suggest he is a top 10 WR in the NFL and he’s not even the top 20. Wothout looking, I am not sure he even makes the top 30.

Rumors are Niners want in on OBJ if Giants make him available, so there will be competition. But damn, if he is, pick up the phone and get it done Beane! Allen and OBJ would be lethal together, and Buffalo I think would be good place for him away from the big market off field stuff. And I think McD is the kind of coach that could keep him buying in.

Huh? You think Anderson will have more yards total than either Julio or Brown? I mean they are not only 2 of the best WRs in football, but 2 of the best overall players in football. Neither is older than 30. WRs still play at elite levels into their mid 30s all the time. They will probably each have between 5500 and 6400 yards during that span. Barring injuries and assuming they both continue to play where they are at or in another offense with a QB who can get them the ball if they move on, they will be Elite still for several more seasons. Brown had 6000 yards the previous 4 years 1500 per year avg) including missing games. Julio had about 6500 yards the last 4 years (1600 per year avg), including missing games and having sucky offensive coordinator for 2 of those years. Im sorry, but I don’t see how Robby Anderson will average over 1500 yards the next 4 years. And can’t see a scenario where he ends up with more yards than either of two of the best WRs in football unless those guys get hurt. Would I take Robby here, yes he’s better than anything we got. I would not want to give up a second for him though when better WRs have been traded for less that didnt have the off field stuff either. Id rather not give up a second and try and sign Tate. Also rumors that Julio, Antonio, AJ Green and now OBJ might all be available this off season. That’s who I am trading a high pick for, not Robby Anderson. Plus this draft is loaded at WR

Dude you were challenging people to bets BEFORE I ever said a word to you. And I didn’t say you were foolish, I said it’s foolish to talk about it in absolutes and to the point where you want to bet everyone who thinks it MAY be possible. Your first thing you said to me was to also bet you. So, my response was based on how you carried yourself through this thread.