GaryPinC

Anybody have the rule # on that? I saw it defined that way for offensive possession but not on kickoffs.

There is one other angle worth discussing. The toss to the ref being an illegal forward pass. Receiver used a forward motion and the ball did go forward towards the oponnents goal line, so I think it fits that description. It hit the ground (wasn't intercepted) so would be a dead ball and 5 yard penalty from the spot of the foul. Being in the end zone, there's no guidance in the rule book on enforcement from the endzone on kicks so that may be why the extra refs came on to discuss and they decided thusly. Though I think they could have ruled safety despite no line of scrimmage. It'll be interesting if the NFL redefines a player giving up for the touchback or stipulates the penalty for illegal forward pass in the endzone on kicks. I'm thinking the latter. Maybe both!

Please. I do. Though most people are good and friendly, there's always the handful of idiots, just like anyplace you live, including Buffalo

I agree with ya, and another reason why I don't think he tracked it well. Underhand allows the ball to come across your body more and give you an extra split second to react to the ball.

I can't agree with you, I simply don't think Duke was tracking the ball well as it arrived. Look how far apart his hands are, instead of being in a tighter basket. He had enough height off the ground regardless of the arm bar. He makes no attempt to bring his left hand over to his right and the ball squarely hit his right hand. He had enough elevation, bringing his left over would have meant twisting his shoulders (dropping the left/raising the right) and I don't think the defender arm bar inhibits that.

Just a friendly reminder from one of my favorite articles: https://buffalonews.com/2019/09/04/buffalo-bills-bill-polian-jim-kelly-peyton-manning-jim-kelly-josh-allen-nfl-football-2019/ “Year 1, in pro ball, you learn to get in and out of the huddle," Polian said. "You learn the nomenclature. You learn how to call the play. You learn what the calls are that the offensive line is making. Josh had great benefit of being injured and sitting and having the ability, during that time, to take a deep breath and say, ‘OK, I have to do this, this, this and this in order to master this.’ “Second year, you learned the concepts of the offense in the offseason. Not how to do it, but why you’re doing it. And why you are doing this, that or the other thing to beat a certain defense or a certain player or doing it in a certain game situation." In the third year, Polian said, there should be significant progress. “You should see the arrow really going up, because if you’re learning how to apply it, you’re eliminating the rookie or young person mistakes," he said. "Because if you’re learning and how to apply what you’ve already learned, you’ve learned not to put the ball in places where it doesn’t belong, go to the wrong guy, etc. “Then, in the fourth year, you learn how to manipulate a defense. How your eyes will make certain players react, how ball placement will make certain players react, how certain audibles or dummy audibles will cause people to react. And then after that, you’re a complete quarterback. Can't wait till next year! I think as this all progresses, he'll learn to trust his teammates more and eliminate the selfish hero ball mentality. I do hope Daboll stays one more year.

Actually, I don't believe the refs cut us that break. That's their Billsy.

A couple points I feel worth considering: During live play is the official considering a neutral part of the field of play? If so, was the play really some kind of forward pass if there was no passing target anywhere near? Also, is a forward fumble/pass entirely inside the end zone possible? The endzone has no yardage markers and is a special area of the playing field where the goalline and sidelines are the most important aspects. Is the ball and possession inside or outside of the EZ is how it's treated.

Is it? This is an interesting question to me. The endzone has no yardage marks like the field of play and what is important is the goalline, sidelines, and endline. In other words, it's a unique area of the field, where the ball is either in or out of the endzone. So, is it considered a forward pass/lateral? Also, as much as I think soccer has it right with intent being part of rule interpretation, this is football that supposedly sticks to rules. It should have been a turnover with TD/safety

Are you really going to put Parcells over the afore mentioned coaches plus Shula and Tom Landry? All of these coaches have a better winning percent, won the same or more superbowls, and with the exception of Lombardi coached longer than Parcells.

This. McDermott got the lead and went conservative with almost all runs. He let Houston hang around and they found a way to seize the momentum. Don't microanalyze the individual failures. It's not on Daboll. Look at the game he called to that point. He was told under McD to limit the playcalling. Continuous improvement Sean. You neutered our offense and it was the beginning of the end. You had Houston on the mat and instead of that last finishing move for the pin, you were content to ride on their backs hoping the lead would hold up. Not good for our offense's confidence either. Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of McD overall and glad he's our coach. He just needs to modify his philosophy here. We do need to grow up also. Great season though. Obvious optimism for the future!8

For all the good work that you do, trying to imply a Spacey conspiracy behind this death is intellectually dishonest and lowers you to Tibs level. Do better.

Speaking as a soccer referee who has interacted with football referees, you're on the right track but I feel your perspective is incorrect. The majority of the job is picking out what looks wrong about a play. Yes, knowing how competent teams are playing does bias you to a small degree coming in, but ultimately it's what unfolds in front of your eyes. Yes, you have to anticipate where the play is going, but it's far from the " majority" of your job. The very best games to ref are when two excellent teams play each other. They play smooth and fast, any infractions are unusual and stick out like sore thumbs, making calls easy. But with an excellent team vs a sloppy one, the sloppy team is usually half a step or more behind the good one, tends to get frustrated because they are out of position, and so more fouls tend to be committed. This sloppy play tends to start a pattern of fouls, thus drawing more of the ref's focus. So yeah the more disciplined team can often get away with some because of this. For the Patriots, factor in that Belichick probably knows the rulebook better than most of the officials so there's an intimidation factor also.

Nice little facet of Rooney's statement: “Additionally, having asked numerous ex-White House Counsels and well-known government attorneys, there can be no “obstruction of Congress (or of justice)” while the person refusing to comply is relying on a claim of executive privilege. Only after losing in court, and still refusing to comply with a subpoena, would a claimant be obstructing." Reasoned, well thought out statement by Rooney, worth reading if you haven't. And it's fairly brief!

Why does the record matter much? McD got this turned around with culture and attention to detail. Certainly also some talent courtesy of Beane. I feel like A Lynn is a good coach but doubt he would have taken McD's approach and so no way would I switch McD out for any other coach. Contrast to the Browns. There's a talented mess with an immature coach. No veterans and zero winning culture. How about the Steelers? Great winning culture until last year when LB and AB exploded that locker room. Now the locker room's reset, Tomlin's getting it done with a scrub QB. Best of all, McD is a constant improvement kind of guy. Hopefully that means he changes his approach and offense conservatism if needed. I already think he has compared to 2 years ago. WRT Mahomes, he threw the ball like a pitcher in college, it was a bad look for a "system" QB and so there was definitely room for doubt. As with Tom Brady, which everybody missed on. In my mind the only two quarterbacks considered "can't miss" since the 80's were Elway and Luck. Drafting a QB is still a crapshoot and it's pretty low class arrogant to use hindsight and hold it over newly minted coach/GM, especially since they ended up drafting Allen.

And let's not forget Josh Allen. He's very much a work in progress anticipating open receivers and manipulating the defense but we've run no huddle this year and they've allowed him to audible. I do believe as Allen and the offense develop McDermott will be less conservative and trust them more to make plays. One of McDermott's most under-appreciated facets is that despite his process and control he very much has an appreciation that emotions play a big role in the game and allows, even encourages the players to express them intelligently. Just another reason why I think McDermott will eventually be even less conservative.

McDermott's still learning as a coach IMO. To me, this season, he's seemed much more willing to take chances on fourth downs during games to try and grab momentum. I will never be a fan of sitting on 1 score leads to allow an opponent opportunity to capture momentum but can live with it knowing that McDermott's willing to press his luck in the right situation. Dick Jauron never would. FG was the right call at PGH. Build a small momentum instead of squandering it. That's critical in tight slugfest games.

Always amazes me how many of these $15 people and the UBI supporters fail to recognize that markets are fluid systems and one change begats others.

I hear ya 100%. If it's the Cheatriots there'll be other occurrences

Also check if they applied for press passes at other games they were scouting.

Great topic! One of the biggest problems I see underlying any real change is information flow thanks to technology. You want congress critters to work together? Fine, but your own party's competition can now easily search these instances and use them against you come election time. The days of backroom deals seem gone because of it. Let alone if activists and constituents don't like something about you they can blow up social media for starters. Principled judgement seems lost these days, and I have no idea how we get it back right now. For me it's a critical part of the solution though.

It would seem to me the NFL could check if NE got press credentials for videographers at other games involving future oponnents. The actual film and other oponnents inquiry should seal the deal.

Oh my God, Russia and the Ukraine are interfering in our 2020 election already! Just a feeble attempt to sway it for Trump!

I think it can certainly play in to a lack of QB development, but look at us. JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Cardale Jones, and EJ Manuel all got chances with other teams, often more than one team. New system and coaches didn't matter. I would think a poorly or mis-developed QB would then develop with new coaching/systems but don't see many examples of it. Anyone got some?

?No. No we don't. If someone served a you a large turd with a frosted Bills logo and Josh Allen's picture in the middle, would you still eat it? That's all this is, a giant musical turd, you fixate on the Bills theme, or the token girl. Go ahead and munch away happily. Enjoy!