Whites Bay Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 This post is probably heading for PPP. Zazie, I'm one of the first on this board to tell the super-patriots where to get off, but I have to side with those that express incredulity at Sellers' action. (Having said that, I'm a moron for commenting when I haven't seen the film clip, but I suppose that puts me in the same boat as a lot of folks). Not dropping your colors to the ground is a concept as old as statehood itself. I can't imagine ANYONE doing it, regardless of their service to the country. And for all of those that toss the derogatory "French" and "Canadian" barbs, I know a number of French and Canadians who would bust you in the teeth for dropping the Tricolor or Maple Leaf to the turf. You just don't do that. Ever. I just hope someone pulls Sellers aside and explains that to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 oh well, get over it, who cares I would think more "Americans" would give a sh*t about that then whether or not Michael Vick gets a chance to play or whether they think he will commit another crime. I guess with a lot of people it is more important if a teams emblem gets stepped on at midfield than if someone degrades Old Glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Anyone who calls this home should care.... Amen brother. And that stupid f*cking idiot who said "who cares" needs to go spend some time in the middle east, maybe go to a picnic with the Taliban and maybe then he might respect what that flag stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwws9999 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 i agree, get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Amen brother. And that stupid f*cking idiot who said "who cares" needs to go spend some time in the middle east, maybe go to a picnic with the Taliban and maybe then he might respect what that flag stands for. I thought he had freedom of speach. Or is that only when he says what you like? Ridiculous to tell someone they need to go spend some time in the middle east. Or maybe you are in favor of mandatory military service. Have we gotten to the point where the treatment of a flag is more important than how we treat people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Amen brother. And that stupid f*cking idiot who said "who cares" needs to go spend some time in the middle east, maybe go to a picnic with the Taliban and maybe then he might respect what that flag stands for. A friend of mine, who's a Nam vet, went to see SPR in the theater and a bunch of snot nosed teenagers were sitting in front of him making comments about how cool this will be and such before the movie. When the movie was over they stood up ashen faced and my friend was thinking "Now you know what people went through for you!" I agree with free speech and the right to burn the flag. IMO it's Constitutional and no matter how vulgar somebody thinks it is they should maintain that right. Disallowing it is more un-American IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 OK fair enough. My apologies to the veterans of the USA. I did not mean that disrespecting the flag was trivial, more that this particular instance was likely not meant as disrespect, either, and therefore not a truly offensive thing. There are plenty out there (ie the French) who ARE doing things like mutilating our flag with full intent to insult and disrespect; I think ire is better saved for them than this guy. Sorry to those who were offended and thanks for your service. I'll buy that. It's hard to imagine this player was making a statement. He may be ignorant of what allowing the flag to touch the ground symbolizes to many Americans. I understood zazie's response to be more of a defense of the player than a defense of the desecration of the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 That kid of treatment to the flag is considered very disrespectful, and I can understand why some might be upset. But if Sellers was intentionally disrespecting the flag (the country, really), I suspect he would be prepared with some of statement/reason for the action. It isn't as if he threw it in his backyard and said "Fuc# America" under his breath. He did it in front of tens of thousands of fans at the game, and a national television audience. I have to conclude he wasn't intentionally displaying any disrespect. (Intentionality is really the most important element in "disrespect". Hell it may be the only relevant element.) It isn't hard for me to believe he might be ignorant of the rules surrounding the flag. It's quite easy for me to believe he had no thought of the rules for the flag, and what his actions might convey, at the time it happened. So my guess is, Sellers is a bit of a moron/showboat, who did something incredibly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zona Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 A friend of mine, who's a Nam vet, went to see SPR in the theater and a bunch of snot nosed teenagers were sitting in front of him making comments about how cool this will be and such before the movie. When the movie was over they stood up ashen faced and my friend was thinking "Now you know what people went through for you!" I agree with free speech and the right to burn the flag. IMO it's Constitutional and no matter how vulgar somebody thinks it is they should maintain that right. Disallowing it is more un-American IMO. Sorry, but what is SPR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Sorry, but what is SPR? Saving Private Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I'm not a veteran, never been in any military branch, just Boy Scouts, and I know not to drop the flag on the ground. I also do not wear clothing that is meant to look like I cut up a flag to make a pair of shorts or shirt. I also do not buy paper plates, cups, napkins with the flag on them, that you always see around July 4th. There's a lot of rules in the Flag Code. Flag Rules and Regulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I'm not a veteran, never been in any military branch, just Boy Scouts, and I know not to drop the flag on the ground. I also do not wear clothing that is meant to look like I cut up a flag to make a pair of shorts or shirt. I also do not buy paper plates, cups, napkins with the flag on them, that you always see around July 4th. There's a lot of rules in the Flag Code. Flag Rules and Regulations 20 bucks says those expressing teh moast outrage have eaten french fries or german potato salad on the 4th of July from a plate with an American flag, and then wiped their mouths with a napkin displaying old glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Yep. 100% Anyone with a rational thought process would assume that as well. National TV, take the US flag throw it on the ground. Yeah, he knew what the F he was doing, if not, he literally must be retarded. So my point is, what is his reason for doing this? Yeah, anyone who doesn't know anything that you know must be retarded. So if I know something that you don't know, are you retarded too? Maybe nobody told him that. I personally have met several people who didn't know anything about this. Maybe it's true that to grow up where you did and go through the same educational system that you did and have the same friends and family that you did and to still not know this you'd have to be retarded. But not all environments are anything close to the same. Handling the flag like that is wrong. But getting all wound up about it and implying that anyone doing that is disrespecting veterans is just as wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Amen brother. And that stupid f*cking idiot who said "who cares" needs to go spend some time in the middle east, maybe go to a picnic with the Taliban and maybe then he might respect what that flag stands for. You can respect what the flag stands for without worrying as much as you are about the flag itself. You know why? Because this is America. In America, freedoms include the right to do irritating things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Your right I suppose its ok to call ignorance just because we dont understand. What American doesn't know that throwing the flag to the ground is disrespectful. Gee my 10 year old knows that. No doubt, its no wonder some of the folks in the stands didn't rush onto the field and beat the living Sh@t out of him, wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I would imagine most vets, like me care. Yes, given that most who have been in combat know of people who died for that flag. I do. Disrespecting the flag is incendiary speech to me, although that perspective would never hold up in a court of law. If Sellers intentionally put the flag onto the ground, that's reprehensible. But if he made a mistake, I would hope that's the last time he's trusted with handling the American Flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFLstyle Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I strongly doubt the guy did it with any disrespect to the flag in mind. He didn't know the etiquette I am sure and someone sent him out without telling him where to put the flag or standing next to to grab it, he was intent on upcoming football game. His teammate did know the etiquette and picked it up and put it on the table or whatever, Not every little gesture or error is worthy of taking offense over. These are my thoughts, there's absolutely no way on earth that he would do that intentionally to disrespect the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 This is a pretty inane thread. No one even saw the incident, no? Sellers, from what I can tell, is the son of an Army man and was born overseas. That likely means: (1) he knows the rules re. respecting the flag; and (2) he probably is very "pro-flag." The fact that the Redskins had him carry out the flag probably also means that he might be one of the more patriotic guys on the team. This leads me to believe that this whole incident is probably a non-event--e.g., maybe he dropped it on accident. Sellers bio: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=208464 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faderphreak Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I'm not a veteran, never been in any military branch, just Boy Scouts, and I know not to drop the flag on the ground. I also do not wear clothing that is meant to look like I cut up a flag to make a pair of shorts or shirt. I also do not buy paper plates, cups, napkins with the flag on them, that you always see around July 4th. There's a lot of rules in the Flag Code. Flag Rules and Regulations I was just about to post a link like that myself because I try to follow those rules myself because I was raised to do so. Even if I wasn't raised to do so, I would know better than to toss a flag on the ground just based reading and a general social awareness, not to mention all of the veterans in my life who fought for and believed in the tenets set forth by our forefathers. Granted with some of the things the the last few presidents (including the current one) have done to our constitution we citizens should have even bigger issues to focus on than disrespect of the flag, such as the loss of more of our rights and the blatant disregard for what that flag has stood for, but I digress... I didn't see it so I would be recalcitrant to comment on whether he did it maliciously or not. Like The Dean I agree it is the intent of malice that would truly make the act disrespectful as opposed to just plain stupid. I know some of you legitimately question how someone could make it through life in our country without knowing something like that. I'm here to tell you as a teacher at a University here in central Florida, they can. You would be amazed and possibly disgusted with the the things most of us here know and take for granted that many University students here have no concept of, or say they have never heard before. Factor in the inability to connect concepts, ideas, or theories, let alone be conscious of things going on all around them and to be honest it is bone chilling to think of the future. Oh yeah, and it is getting worse every year! This whole thing can be broken down into a simple concept that is pervasive in society. Generally speaking, people do not think and if they are not taught, shown, or haven't seen something on the F'n babysitter (TV) or facebook, they don't have the capacity to figure it out for themselves. Concept one: Many people, even uneducated or "dumb" people, are so angered by flag burning that they put forth legislation or wear the old picnic stained "Try Burning This One!" shirts. Concept two: In many schools despite not being allowed to pray, every morning students start the day with the "Pledge of Allegiance." Thought: If people have to pledge to it and in some cases are even more impassioned by flag burning than religion, for which more people have died than any other cause, would it be ok to just toss it anywhere? Conclusion: No. Not unless someone wanted to disrespect it and those who stand for it. I won't get into theories or debates on why this is happening but I will say that until we as a nation take the time to find a way to fix that problem, morons who do stupid things like throw the flag on the ground are going to multiply. People need to be taught to think, use logic and reason. If we don't correct the problem it is going uglier than most can imagine. Have you seen Idiocracy and got it? (If you didn't get it, sorry to break it to you but it was probably about you) That is the direction we are headed folks. My buddy has a line I steal quite often. "We are one EMP away from being the dumbest country on the planet." Dammit! The reason I come to this board is to be an escapist and distract myself from thoughts like that. Is it time for kickoff yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I'm not a veteran, never been in any military branch, just Boy Scouts, and I know not to drop the flag on the ground. I also do not wear clothing that is meant to look like I cut up a flag to make a pair of shorts or shirt. I also do not buy paper plates, cups, napkins with the flag on them, that you always see around July 4th. There's a lot of rules in the Flag Code. Flag Rules and Regulations Well aren't you quite the boy scout. Plenty were not boy scouts, happily. I actually had no ideea there were such rules about the flag; noone ever went over anything like that with me when I was growing up in the Buffalo area. I likely would have looked for someone to hand the flag too, but not because I positively know better than to put it on the ground. I would like to see the clip but I stand by my thought that the Redskins are equally culpable for the whole incident. If you are going to stage something, see it through to the final act. Redskins PR person: "OK Mike, heres what you do, run out with the flag and wave it a little. When you get to midfield, hand it the the ref who will be expecting it". How about that for a plan? Sounds to me like they sent him out there with the flag then he was getting ready for a football game and noone told him s**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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