San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 First of all, don't mistake this for negativity, it's not. I think it's generally silly for people like ourselves to second guess people who do this for a living and are without exception, workaholics. That said, as much as I like the day one results, why did we stack interior O-line? After last year we let Dockery, Whittle, Preston, and Fowler go. We added Hangartner and McKinney in free agency. We then drafted Wood, a center/guard and Levitre, a college tackle who everyone is projecting as a guard. In other words, they're both essentially guards right now. Add them to Brad Butler and you have 5 interior linemen for 3 spots with Bell and Chambers also mentioned as possible interior options. Do you think this was a sound roster strategy? I ask because we could have stacked pass rusher instead by adding Everette Brown or Connor Barwin atop Aaron Maybin when we picked at #42. Last year the Jaguars drafted Derrick Harvey and Quentin Groves, pass rushers, in the first two rounds. I like the Jairus Byrd pick but personally would have been thrilled to take Brown or Barwin. I understand that it's somewhat redundant but Barwin could have also possibly filled our need at linebacker. He was a very athletic tight end and as such it seems to me that in addition to being an excellent pass rusher that he would have no trouble learning to be a good coverage linebacker. It seems that by stacking Maybin with Brown or Barwin along with Schobel, the Bills would have had a great chance to become a great pass rush team. I guess the real question is whether anyone thinks we should have taken Everette Brown of Connor Barwin instead of Jairus Byrd. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 we had more open spots on OL....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 The numbers add up - 4 cuts, 4 additions. So I don't know that I'd call it stacking so much as replacing. As far as why the DL didn't get this treatment, who can say for sure? Some possibilities: 1. Draft evaluation. The FO was not as impressed with Brown or Barwin as fans were. 2. Stability. They like Denney and Kelsay more than most fans do, or they just didn't want to face the prospect of blowing up both lines in the same year. 3. Coincidence. They saw an opportunity to grab a guy who they thought could be a difference-maker at safety, and saw another opportunity to grab a talented OL who they saw falling. If things had played out a little differently and Levitre had been taken but Brown or Barwin was still on the board at that spot, maybe we'd have seen a trade up targeting them. Just some ideas. Not saying any of those is necessarily the reason, or that I would agree with the FO if it were, but I think they all make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Since '86 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 This makes the qb/wr/rb/and defense better. Gatta be able to be put in a position to score points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CherryCoke Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 i think a lot had to do with $$ already invested in DEs they are already paying Kelsay and Schobel a ton of money, now add in a high 1st round pick thats a lot of cash allocated to one position adding another rookie DE would have been great, but the amount or money dedicated to that position would have been sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 They are stacked at OT and thin at guard and I think that's why they are going interior lineman in the draft. These are the guys on the Bills OL prior to the draft per BB.com; Demetrius Bell - (OT) 6'5" 307 Brad Butler - (OT) 6'7" 315 Kirk Chambers - (OT/G) 6'7" 315 Chris Denman - (OT) 6'7" 315 ( Taken from the Practice Squad) Geoff Hangartner - (C/G) 6'5" 305 Brandon Rodd - (OT) 6'4" 305 (Taken from the Practice Squad) Jonathan Scott - (OT) 6'6" 318 Langston Walker - (OT) 6'8" 366 Draft Picks; Any Levitre - (G) 6'3" 305 Eric Wood - (C/G) 6'4" 310 Some of these guys listed may be able to play more positions than listed. I'm going by the synopsis' on BB.com. So the Bills have 7 guys who can play (OT) and, including the draft picks, four guys who can play guard and two centers. Levitre has played tackle in college but he's not equipped, IMO, to play that in the NFL. According to the stuff I've read his arms are too short to play tackle. So the lineup could be; Bell - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker Walker - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Chambers Chambers - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker I'm guessing right now that the Walker, Wood, Hangartner, Levitre and Chambers lineup is the starting lineup on opening day. If Wood shows he's better at C than Hangartner in TC then switch Hangartner and Wood around. There are rumors that Bell may be a lot better than people think and he may end up at LT with Walker at RT. Anyhoo, there are lots of combinations for the OL. The Bills need to protect TE because he's so brittle and that's why the upgrades in the interior were made. I guess the coaches are high on the tackles they have now. As for DE's a lot of people are forgetting Chris Ellis from last year. He was extremely underwhelming but guys usually step it up in the second year and so the jury is still out on him. But that leaves Maybin, Schobel, Ellis, Denney and Kelsay for the DE spots. Since Ellis was a third round pick last year I think they are still hopeful for him to come out strong this year. That is something that is still very high in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 They are stacked at OT and thin at guard and I think that's why they are going interior lineman in the draft. These are the guys on the Bills OL prior to the draft per BB.com; Demetrius Bell - (OT) 6'5" 307 Brad Butler - (OT) 6'7" 315 Kirk Chambers - (OT/G) 6'7" 315 Chris Denman - (OT) 6'7" 315 ( Taken from the Practice Squad) Geoff Hangartner - (C/G) 6'5" 305 Brandon Rodd - (OT) 6'4" 305 (Taken from the Practice Squad) Jonathan Scott - (OT) 6'6" 318 Langston Walker - (OT) 6'8" 366 Draft Picks; Any Levitre - (G) 6'3" 305 Eric Wood - (C/G) 6'4" 310 Some of these guys listed may be able to play more positions than listed. I'm going by the synopsis' on BB.com. So the Bills have 7 guys who can play (OT) and, including the draft picks, four guys who can play guard and two centers. Levitre has played tackle in college but he's not equipped, IMO, to play that in the NFL. According to the stuff I've read his arms are too short to play tackle. So the lineup could be; Bell - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker Walker - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Chambers Chambers - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker I'm guessing right now that the Walker, Wood, Hangartner, Levitre and Chambers lineup is the starting lineup on opening day. If Wood shows he's better at C than Hangartner in TC then switch Hangartner and Wood around. There are rumors that Bell may be a lot better than people think and he may end up at LT with Walker at RT. Anyhoo, there are lots of combinations for the OL. The Bills need to protect TE because he's so brittle and that's why the upgrades in the interior were made. I guess the coaches are high on the tackles they have now. As for DE's a lot of people are forgetting Chris Ellis from last year. He was extremely underwhelming but guys usually step it up in the second year and so the jury is still out on him. But that leaves Maybin, Schobel, Ellis, Denney and Kelsay for the DE spots. Since Ellis was a third round pick last year I think they are still hopeful for him to come out strong this year. That is something that is still very high in the air. Typical Bills fan leave out our best lineman from your starting lineup they should move Butler to LT now that they have some talent to play at G Walker is too slow to play LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Typical Bills fan leave out our best lineman from your starting lineup they should move Butler to LT now that they have some talent to play at G Walker is too slow to play LT Butler played guard last year and I have a hard time with saying he's the best Bills lineman and that he's capable of being a solid LT. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Wood I think plays the center position from day one with Harngartner playing guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 That is what I am a little confused with too...I really like Butler a the guard spot, but obviously the Bills feel differently... I did also like what I saw out of Chambers at the right tackle spot last year too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Wood I think plays the center position from day one with Harngartner playing guard. According to Sean Kugler, Bills O-line coach, both are going to start out playing guard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Typical Bills fan leave out our best lineman from your starting lineup they should move Butler to LT now that they have some talent to play at G Walker is too slow to play LT Too many get caught up in the stats and a game or two he played at LT. They didn't notice the help he got or the fact he does struggle against speed and that playing at RT with help negates that. The same were also blind to the fact that Peters played on an island with no help. It's like comparing Deion to Larry Brown! For a full 16 game season Walker will get schooled! Some will say Peters got abused last year. He was rarely beat but when he was last year it often ended in a sack and it was pointed out. Walker will allow constant pressure as he is simply not agile enough to play ON AN ISLAND at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 That said, as much as I like the day one results, why did we stack interior O-line? After last year we let Dockery, Whittle, Preston, and Fowler go. ? I guess the real question is whether anyone thinks we should have taken Everette Brown of Connor Barwin instead of Jairus Byrd. Thoughts? You answered your own question. Those guys sucked. The best on that list was Dockery, and he was lazy, fat and slow. As for you other question, of course we shouldn't have taken another corner (or safety) with the #10 in round 2. That was simply paying the Bills Fan dues and a tribute to the idiocy of Jauron. That said, this was a great draft for the Bills imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Typical Bills fan leave out our best lineman from your starting lineup they should move Butler to LT now that they have some talent to play at G Walker is too slow to play LT Really, how did did he grade out? Who was second, etc? I'm just hoping we don't resign Denny, Walker and Kelsay to starters money when their contracts come up. For me that means Ellis makes some strides this year and Maybin doesn't bust the year after that and Bell develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I agree 100% (although I was accused of being a potato chip-eating couch potato who knows nothing about football for posting the same hypothesis). Add waves of passrushers and size to the front seven on Day 1. Add interior linemen on Day 2. That is how I would build a team. Would've taken Ayers at 11, Wood at 28, and Barwin at 42. Still could trade to 51 and get Levitre. Would've added size and talent to both lines, plus the third down passrusher that we needed. But instead they feel that the defensive backfield is a priority. It drives me nuts. I'm excited they addressed the o-line, but Day 1 could've been much better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 The Bills may address TE and LB today. OL, DL, DB's are all pretty stacked (not saying with talent ). WR, QB also. LB may not be a high priority also as I see us starting Mitchell, Poz and Bowen, got plenty of backups. TE needs to be addressed, but I can't expect a starter in the 4th round. There is even Sheffler if traded by the Broncos. May just draft "best available" at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelaxedMomentum Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 we had more open spots on OL....... [/quote agree...we have to protect the QB and be able to run the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Wood I think plays the center position from day one with Harngartner playing guard. Not according to Mark Gaughan... The Bills addressed their need for pressure on the quarterback by drafting Penn State defensive end Aaron Maybin with the 11th overall pick. Then they tried to get tougher up the middle on offense by drafting Louisville center Eric Wood, who they plan to play at guard. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Because our defense was already a lot better than our offense, and we went with defense with our first 2 picks. So it is only natural to start picking offense. We simply can't ignore our horrid offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 First of all, don't mistake this for negativity, it's not. I think it's generally silly for people like ourselves to second guess people who do this for a living and are without exception, workaholics. That said, as much as I like the day one results, why did we stack interior O-line? After last year we let Dockery, Whittle, Preston, and Fowler go. We added Hangartner and McKinney in free agency. We then drafted Wood, a center/guard and Levitre, a college tackle who everyone is projecting as a guard. In other words, they're both essentially guards right now. Add them to Brad Butler and you have 5 interior linemen for 3 spots with Bell and Chambers also mentioned as possible interior options. Do you think this was a sound roster strategy? I ask because we could have stacked pass rusher instead by adding Everette Brown or Connor Barwin atop Aaron Maybin when we picked at #42. Last year the Jaguars drafted Derrick Harvey and Quentin Groves, pass rushers, in the first two rounds. I like the Jairus Byrd pick but personally would have been thrilled to take Brown or Barwin. I understand that it's somewhat redundant but Barwin could have also possibly filled our need at linebacker. He was a very athletic tight end and as such it seems to me that in addition to being an excellent pass rusher that he would have no trouble learning to be a good coverage linebacker. It seems that by stacking Maybin with Brown or Barwin along with Schobel, the Bills would have had a great chance to become a great pass rush team. I guess the real question is whether anyone thinks we should have taken Everette Brown of Connor Barwin instead of Jairus Byrd. Thoughts? we--and many others obviously didnt think Brown was that good. We got a lot done thos draft--as much as I think humanly possible given our weak lines. All things equal I think we take Brown over Byrd---but Byrd is the much better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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