ganesh Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I completely agree with Wilsons article this morning. and I completely agree with this post . The most important thing you said was Ralph is looking for cheap talent. If you look at the TO trade the Bills got him for pretty cheap. The only reason I see them doing this is to add picks so they can trade up and get one of the top 3 OT in the draft I hope it works out cause i see 7-9 again this year You just contradicted yourself. On one hand you say the Bills were cheap and did not want to pay 11-12M for Peters and yet here you mention that they will trade up and pick the top 3 talent and yet pay the same amount....Where did the Cheapness go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Remember when Dante "The X-Factor" Hall was arguably the best return man in the league for the Chiefs a few years back? He was traded to the Rams for a 5th round pick. I would say that Roscoe's skills compare to that of Hall's. He was a OK slot receiver with amazing return skills, but his play declined tremendously after the trade. I would have to say that Roscoe is a luxury. He is exciting when he gets his hand's on the ball, however if you take into account what our WR corps looks like this year, will he even have a chance to sniff the field other than on punt returns? Get what you can for him, then, like other posters have mentioned, package that pick with another to either trade for a veteran (Scheffler, Henderson, Waters) or package it to trade up in the draft to select someone that they want to target. Exactly. For me, the punt and kick returns are the most exciting part of the Bills game. And ya know.... I'm kinda ready for the WRs to be a little more exciting than the punt returns. So, yeah, Roscoe is a good player and I've enjoyed watching him as a Bill. However, if they can get good value for him and add another player that possibly makes our offense or defense more exciting; then I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Why not? They hand out a trophy for having the most draft picks, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Say it with me now...because Roscoe is not that good. Sure he's a hell of a punt returner but let's save the luxuries for the Steelers and Patriots of the world. He makes 3.5 a year and can't contribute on offense. We have too many holes to be spending that much on a guy who can only positively contribute to 4 or 5 plays a game. But I guess Roscoe will get the Crowell treatment now and everyone will make him out to be better than he is because the team is dumping him. He's had plenty of time to develop into a receiver but he hasn't done it so far...what makes you think that he will do it at all? [/quot The thing here is lets look at the history so far wit the FO, what makes you think that there is a plan in mind? We have a team under a coaching staff thats been here long enough, this team has no direction or qualified leadership, run by an accountant !!! How many backup player can we sign (former Bear & Lion cast-off's) and then complain about results? The poster is right they want talent, very cheap talent...just look at these guys that have been signed under this guy. And con them -off as legit players. This team needs play makers and Roscoe albeit, as you say 4-5 plays a game? The opponents must account for him, dont blame him because inept coaching doesn't know how to scheme an offense to exploit his talents. What really sticks in my gut is look at the player who's making him expendible J. Jenkins, lol...how many plays has he made since with the Bills (he's JAG)? What next is we draft or add a FA outta college, develope him, play him at another position, he finally becomes your anchor/identity then trade em and start all over...its like a dog chasing his tail...thats what this Organization reminds me of, when John Fox took the helm with Carolina, almost immediately did the team look as tho they were headed in the right direction (no they didnt win the SB) I use him because he was the guy also interviewed when we chose Gregg (w/3g's) and the Org. have constantly tried to get "a dollar outta 15 cents". My point here is ,would you trade positions with the Panthers since that point? And why haven't the Organization been able to stand for anything since the Bill Polian era? In a league run by billionaire's designing their organizations as high priced hobby, while their adding that rare piece to that prized project (for more bragging right), the Bills are crunching numbers to see how they can continue to manage status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 You just contradicted yourself. On one hand you say the Bills were cheap and did not want to pay 11-12M for Peters and yet here you mention that they will trade up and pick the top 3 talent and yet pay the same amount....Where did the Cheapness go Thank you...ITS CALL STUPIDITY. THE DOG CHASING HIS TAIL. Stocking up on draft picks are good, if you have great evaluators of talent plus superior coaching, we have neither. We all wish the best for this org. and as i read from the posters, they're some great ideas but caution to the wind. Do you really believe these cast of character have any idea what they're doing here, football wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 We need to put this in perspective. In 13 games last year, Parrish had 21 punt returns for 322 yards (15.3 average) and a TD. That's an average of 1.6 punts for 24.8 yards, and 0.08 TD's, a game. While it would be nice to keep him, I can't justify keeping him for over $3M. If several teams are interested, the Bills could get a good pick out of this. And with Freddy averaging 16.6 YPR on punts last year, its not like they have no one to potentially replace him. Say it with me now...because Roscoe is not that good. Sure he's a hell of a punt returner but let's save the luxuries for the Steelers and Patriots of the world. He makes 3.5 a year and can't contribute on offense. We have too many holes to be spending that much on a guy who can only positively contribute to 4 or 5 plays a game. But I guess Roscoe will get the Crowell treatment now and everyone will make him out to be better than he is because the team is dumping him. He's had plenty of time to develop into a receiver but he hasn't done it so far...what makes you think that he will do it at all? Somebody tell me how much Parrish will make this season. I'll give you a hint. It's not $3.5M. It's not $3M. It's not even $2.5M. I guess if you say anything often enough it becomes true, no matter how false it really is. And this thought that Fred Jackson - at 28 (two years OLDER than Parrish) will easily fill in for him blows my !@#$ing mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Say it with me now...because Roscoe is not that good. Sure he's a hell of a punt returner but let's save the luxuries for the Steelers and Patriots of the world. He makes 3.5 a year and can't contribute on offense. We have too many holes to be spending that much on a guy who can only positively contribute to 4 or 5 plays a game. But I guess Roscoe will get the Crowell treatment now and everyone will make him out to be better than he is because the team is dumping him. He's had plenty of time to develop into a receiver but he hasn't done it so far...what makes you think that he will do it at all? And how many passes has Parrish dropped when he gets the ball thrown to him?? I've never read that he runs the wrong routes or can't get off the line of scrimmage, have you? It is certainly not his fault that our OC gives up on using this kid because....I have no idea why our OC's have never gotten the ball to him, actually. However, I have watched this guy make things happen in every type of facet of the offense. I could care less about Crowell. All those tackles he put up never seemed to be game changers. But Parrish is a game changer, he is lightning in a bottle. Didn't you watch those punt returns? Or those passes over the middle he caught and turned into 30 yard gains, the very few times Edwards or Lost-man ever bothered to throw him the damn ball? You call him a luxury the Bills can't afford. I call him a weapon the Bills refuse to utilize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Why? Because he's overpaid for the role he plays with us, and... Getting value for him would allow the bills to expand the TALENT on the team by moving up in the draft or using the picks gained to get another solid veteran at another position.... Hey I can go along with that opinion. If they "use the draft pick to move up or for a trade for a veteran player, blah blah blah." You have to be joking right? All the best damn veteran players were sitting out there in free agency. You know that thing that starts the end of February where the Bills and every team could have signed some GREAT veteran players without having to waste a single damn draft pick? And how much talent did the Bills add when those GREAT players were available?? I want someone to tell me what talented veterans the Bills are going to trade for now, with this extra 4th or 5th draft pick they seem intent on trading Parrish for! WHO?? Now, that all the best free agents are signed sealed and delivered to the teams that spent the money on them? Tell me one veteran left or even right tackle the Bills are targeting with their "package" of 4th round picks???? And just how good can this veteran be, if some other team is willing to part with him for a couple of 4th round picks in the first place? You know what I think the Bills will do with all of the extra 4th and 5th round draft picks they are compiling? Now this is a shocker, but.....I think they will use them to draft rookies in the 4th and 5th rounds. I would love to wrong, but these are the inner circle jerks working for the Wilson Bills were are talking about here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Somebody tell me how much Parrish will make this season. I'll give you a hint. It's not $3.5M. It's not $3M. It's not even $2.5M. I guess if you say anything often enough it becomes true, no matter how false it really is. And this thought that Fred Jackson - at 28 (two years OLDER than Parrish) will easily fill in for him blows my !@#$ing mind. Look here: http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/20...ry_cap_page.php Parrish has a $1M base salary in 2009, and is due to get $1.5M in "other bonus," outside his "amortized (signing) bonus." To me that says he'll make $2.5M in new money this year. But Clump could probably help us out with the real number, if I'm not reading it right. And Jackson's average is at the least encouraging. Notice how his KR average is poor, yet no one is clamoring for him to replace McKelvin there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 We need to put this in perspective. In 13 games last year, Parrish had 21 punt returns for 322 yards (15.3 average) and a TD. That's an average of 1.6 punts for 24.8 yards, and 0.08 TD's, a game. While it would be nice to keep him, I can't justify keeping him for over $3M. If several teams are interested, the Bills could get a good pick out of this. And with Freddy averaging 16.6 YPR on punts last year, its not like they have no one to potentially replace him. With Roscoe's limited (very limited?) value other than punt returns, his 3 Mil salary and bonuses this year do seem a bit much. Had he at least developed into a competent WR with some ability to utilize his speed, the picture would be totally different. Shopping Roscoe that this time makes some sense. Shopping Kelsay, on the other hand is a exercise in futility since he hasn't made a play since the 2007 season in the game against the Cowboys.Finding another team willing to take on his current salary will be difficult at best. It is likely Kelsay will be a Bill until the Bills simply cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Anything less than a 2nd for Roscoe is a waste and another step back. We need playmakers, and Roscoe is one of them. He's one of the few players on this team that is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Its not his fault that our OC is too retarded to get Roscoe the ball 3-5 times per game on screens/reverses, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 And how many passes has Parrish dropped when he gets the ball thrown to him?? I've never read that he runs the wrong routes or can't get off the line of scrimmage, have you? It is certainly not his fault that our OC gives up on using this kid because....I have no idea why our OC's have never gotten the ball to him, actually. However, I have watched this guy make things happen in every type of facet of the offense. I could care less about Crowell. All those tackles he put up never seemed to be game changers. But Parrish is a game changer, he is lightning in a bottle. Didn't you watch those punt returns? Or those passes over the middle he caught and turned into 30 yard gains, the very few times Edwards or Lost-man ever bothered to throw him the damn ball? You call him a luxury the Bills can't afford. I call him a weapon the Bills refuse to utilize. Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Anything less than a 2nd for Roscoe is a waste and another step back. We need playmakers, and Roscoe is one of them. He's one of the few players on this team that is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Its not his fault that our OC is too retarded to get Roscoe the ball 3-5 times per game on screens/reverses, etc. Also well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 You just contradicted yourself. On one hand you say the Bills were cheap and did not want to pay 11-12M for Peters and yet here you mention that they will trade up and pick the top 3 talent and yet pay the same amount....Where did the Cheapness go ok let me tell you what i mean buddy.... The Bills had a choice... pay Peters or trade him. They choose to trade him.....cheaply i might add If and its a big if......they only move up two spots to Jacksonville place at number 9 and choose Oher one of the top 4 offensive lineman not one of the top 3 overall players He would not cost 10 million a year The better move would be to sign Peters IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 We need to put this in perspective. In 13 games last year, Parrish had 21 punt returns for 322 yards (15.3 average) and a TD. That's an average of 1.6 punts for 24.8 yards, and 0.08 TD's, a game. While it would be nice to keep him, I can't justify keeping him for over $3M. If several teams are interested, the Bills could get a good pick out of this. And with Freddy averaging 16.6 YPR on punts last year, its not like they have no one to potentially replace him. The Bills are a mediocre team. They need to win 10 games to have a chance at the playoffs. I'll give them six wins and six losses off the bat because they're not terrible. How they do in those other four games, which will most likely be close, will come down to little things -- punt returns, field position, and the like. In 2006, the Bills went 7-9, and one of those wins is directly attributable to Roscoe Parrish (the Jags game). In the Denver game in 2007, his return should have been the deciding factor, but the Bills choked it away at the end. In 08, his great return against Jax helped the Bills seal the victory. Moreover, his return stats aren't accurate -- as anyone who watches Bills games knows, teams kick away from him, especially in close games. That shortens punts and improves field position. There are a lot of guys on the Bills who play a lot more than Parrish does but don't help them win games--they are cogs in a machine. They are JAGs (just a guy) -- people who can be easily replaced with no discernible decline in quality. Parrish is actually very good at what he does. On a mediocre team, you keep those guys, particularly if you're realistic about the need to win some close games to get to 10 wins. As for money, give me a break. A team that hasn't been to the playoffs this decade yet still draws large crowds shouldn't be trying to cut salaries -- they should be trying to increase them! Incidentally, for those who think McKelvin was a better punt returner in college than Parrish, note that Parrish was great and actually played against strong competition consistently. Troy State mostly plays weak sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I would agree with the notion that a 4-5 is a bit short, but if we got an early 3rd - I think we owe it to the team to cash in on the glut we have at reciever and return men on the roster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Say it with me now...because Roscoe is not that good. Sure he's a hell of a punt returner but let's save the luxuries for the Steelers and Patriots of the world. He makes 3.5 a year and can't contribute on offense. We have too many holes to be spending that much on a guy who can only positively contribute to 4 or 5 plays a game. But I guess Roscoe will get the Crowell treatment now and everyone will make him out to be better than he is because the team is dumping him. He's had plenty of time to develop into a receiver but he hasn't done it so far...what makes you think that he will do it at all? Exactly .... it is a shame the Bills are likely to only get a mid to late round pick for him. However, somebody is going to get cut at WR and apparently his is on the chop block. If so, might as well get something for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 It is certainly not his fault that our OC gives up on using this kid because....I have no idea why our OC's have never gotten the ball to him, actually. It's because he cannot beat single coverage consistently, even though he is usually lined up against a #2 or #3 corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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