Angelo Crowell

[BeastMode54]

We NEVER should have put him on IR. He was a solid linebacker and it wouldn't be a need for us in FA or the draft. He could have come back at some point last year. According to him the Bills wanted him back as well, but he just wouldn't do it. I think the Bills FO screws up situations with players more than most and its really starting to piss me off

[The Big Cat]

Ah, so semantics is your game, eh? I'll remember you 6-8 months from now, Big Cat!!

 

Please do!

 

What will be your gauge for his efficacy in Tampa?

[Ramius]

First of all, it was Ralph's decision.

 

Secondly, Crowell definitely is a better player than Ellison but he is severely overrated by a lot of people here. He freelances a lot. He may have made a slight difference but not that big of one.

 

Thirdly, it did seem like he was more worried about his free agency than helping out the team. He picked a weird time to have a surgery. i'm sure there are 2 sides to the story but if I was Ralph, I'd be pissed too.

 

Lastly, there are more talented LBs in this draft. Elite LBs don't sign 1 year contracts for a $1 million. Crowell seems like a good guy and i wish him well but let's move on.

 

Agreed. If Crowell's knee was hurting him so bad that he was in pain in 2007, why didn't he get the knee taken care of last offseason? Lots of players do this in the offseason and are more than ready for OTAs and training camp. The timing of his decision was very odd. It really seems like he wanted ot get the knee taken care of, play his nuts off in the final 12 games, and cash in big during free agency.

 

As for the Buccs, the word down here in Buccs land is that they are still very unsure of his knee. They think he can be a good contributor to the defense, but they aren't expecting a superstar. He'll have to beat out Quincy Black and Geno Hayes for a starting spot.

[John from Riverside]

I was under the impression that it was Ralph that got really upset over this.......

[ajzepp]

Please do!

 

What will be your gauge for his efficacy in Tampa?

 

 

Well, truth be told it's usually the second year after knee surgery when you return to form (if you're gonna), so hard to say. I WOULD say that just wanting him back over what we already have in Ellison would be one indicator we could use, even though it's subjective...but I'm still hoping we either find a nice player in the draft or maybe Bowen or someone steps up and we forget about AC. Usually when the Bills let a player go (or kick 'em to the curb) it's not a big deal to me, but in this case I really liked the guy. Seemed like he was one of the few guys making plays on a consistent basis on D in '07. I think super linebacker play is one of the things I've always loved about the Bills, and we just don't have that right now. Can't wait til we get it back!

[SuperKillerRobots]

Well, truth be told it's usually the second year after knee surgery when you return to form (if you're gonna), so hard to say. I WOULD say that just wanting him back over what we already have in Ellison would be one indicator we could use, even though it's subjective...but I'm still hoping we either find a nice player in the draft or maybe Bowen or someone steps up and we forget about AC. Usually when the Bills let a player go (or kick 'em to the curb) it's not a big deal to me, but in this case I really liked the guy. Seemed like he was one of the few guys making plays on a consistent basis on D in '07. I think super linebacker play is one of the things I've always loved about the Bills, and we just don't have that right now. Can't wait til we get it back!

 

I think he was a better fit than Ellison, but I also think that the FO and coaching staff for whatever reason didn't want to re-sign him at all this offseason, so the idea of carrying him on the roster for best case 4 weeks and worst case 8 weeks while injured didn't appeal to them. I like AC, but I don't think he was special enough to cry over him leaving. The only thing - and main reason I liked him - was that he had size, which no other LB on the team has.

 

He played better in Gregg Williams' defense anyways.

[C.Biscuit97]

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that we'll be missing AC not long into the '09 campaign. And living down here in NFC South land, I'll see a fair bit of the guy most likely.

 

 

I don't know man. In his last season with the Bills, he was part of the 31st ranked defense. Last year without AC, we finished 14th. Obviously, it's not all on AC and there are a lot of other factors (Stroud, Poz) but I think he is joining that list of players that people think are better than they are when they leave the Bills (Leonhard, Bannan, etc.).

 

Additionally, Mitchell had more big plays (INTs and sacks) this season than AC has ever had. I think Crowell is a solid enough player but there are a lot of Crowells in this league, no disrespect intended.

[ajzepp]

I don't know man. In his last season with the Bills, he was part of the 31st ranked defense. Last year without AC, we finished 14th. Obviously, it's not all on AC and there are a lot of other factors (Stroud, Poz) but I think he is joining that list of players that people think are better than they are when they leave the Bills (Leonhard, Bannan, etc.).

 

Additionally, Mitchell had more big plays (INTs and sacks) this season than AC has ever had. I think Crowell is a solid enough player but there are a lot of Crowells in this league, no disrespect intended.

 

I think having half the team on IR may have a LITTLE something to do with our defense being ranked so low in 2007, but I hear what you're saying. I hope you're right, cause I usually rely on the fact that I don't miss the players that the Bills part ways with....but until we have someone who is better than Crowell, I'll probably feel like we made the wrong decision.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Crowell was a decent player on a crappy defense in 2007. Guess what he was going to make a lot of tackles, because the Dline was a seive. He was a decent player, and will keep my eye on him when he plays the Falcons. But the timming of it all was pretty bad on his part. He knew he had this problem late in the 07 season and decided to wait till right before the season for the surgery. Is that really the kind of guy you want on your team???

I don't. Means your either stupid or careless. Not exactly the guys you want as leaders.

[MarkyMannn]

Pretend for a second that you're not a Bills fan:

 

SOMEONE ELSE: Hey, looks like Tampa signed Buffalo's Angelo Crowell.

 

YOU: Who?

 

----SCENE-----

 

 

Seriously though, it's not a hole if the guy hasn't been on the field since 2007.

 

Flash forward to Opening Day 2009; AC is either a back-up, or a marginal starter on a lousy Buc's team

[dollars 2 donuts]

Pretend for a second that you're not a Bills fan:

 

SOMEONE ELSE: Hey, looks like Tampa signed Buffalo's Angelo Crowell.

 

YOU: Who?

 

----SCENE-----

 

 

Seriously though, it's not a hole if the guy hasn't been on the field since 2007.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm completely there with ya, Big Cat.

 

 

No offense to anybody but I never really understood the whole, "Crowell is gone, we have another hole to fill" comments.

 

 

Its kind of like, "Crap, the Jets signed Jim Leonard, now we have to find another safety!"

[ajzepp]

Yeah, I'm completely there with ya, Big Cat.

 

 

No offense to anybody but I never really understood the whole, "Crowell is gone, we have another hole to fill" comments.

 

 

Its kind of like, "Crap, the Jets signed Jim Leonard, now we have to find another safety!"

 

 

Or like you going to BillsZone?

 

(j/k )

[BuffaloBill]

What's done is done but the question hanging in all of this is why did Crowell not get surgery and rehab well before the start of the season? He does - he recouperates and plays out his contract year. He messed up as did Buffalo. The situation was handled poorly by all.

 

Hoever, in the end who cares? He is a good but not great linebacker.

[ajzepp]

What's done is done but the question hanging in all of this is why did Crowell not get surgery and rehab well before the start of the season? He does - he recouperates and plays out his contract year. He messed up as did Buffalo. The situation was handled poorly by all.

 

Hoever, in the end who cares? He is a good but not great linebacker.

 

Yeah, well guess what...we could use a couple of "good but not great linebackers"

[atlbillsfan1975]

Yeah, well guess what...we could use a couple of "good but not great linebackers"

we have good but not great LBs. Plus LBs are mostly only as good as the line they play behind. They are just like runningbacks. If the guys are upfront arent eating up olineman, then Lbs are screwed. Just ask Ray Ray.

[Ramius]

He could have come back at some point last year.

 

Of course this is a complete lie. Read kelly the dog's post. Crowell said himself that he couldn't have come back last year.

[ajzepp]

we have good but not great LBs. Plus LBs are mostly only as good as the line they play behind. They are just like running backs. If the guys are upfront arent eating up olineman, then Lbs are screwed. Just ask Ray Ray.

 

If the Olineman don't or can't do their job, then yeah, the LBs and RBs can't do theirs. But if you're saying all LBs and RBs are created equal, I completely disagree.

[Thoner7]

Pretend for a second that you're not a Bills fan:

 

SOMEONE ELSE: Hey, looks like Tampa signed Buffalo's Angelo Crowell.

 

YOU: Who?

 

----SCENE-----

 

 

Seriously though, it's not a hole if the guy hasn't been on the field since 2007.

 

Its been a hole since 2007.

[el Tigre]

I think we have one huge hole to fill without Crowell. IMO,Cato June would have been the ideal guy to sign. Keiaho could probably do OK,but he's not the playmaker June is. Junes coverage skills could have made him a difference maker in this D. Now we have to spend a draft pick on a LB when we have so many other needs.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

IIRC, late in the season, Cro himself said that he couldn't have played at all last year after the surgery. He couldn't practice a week or so ago and was just cleared to play for the first time.

The actual story is that after he was placed on IR, Crowell mulled over his options. He ended up having surgery about one month after being placed on IR after seeking several other opinions. In addition, because he was now shelved for the whole season, he decided to have a more major surgery done rather than the cleanup that was originally intended.

 

Agreed. If Crowell's knee was hurting him so bad that he was in pain in 2007, why didn't he get the knee taken care of last offseason? Lots of players do this in the offseason and are more than ready for OTAs and training camp. The timing of his decision was very odd. It really seems like he wanted ot get the knee taken care of, play his nuts off in the final 12 games, and cash in big during free agency.

This is a good question. Another good question is since he had been suffering occasional knee pain in both 2006 and 2007, what was the Bills' medical staff's disposition on this issue? Is it possible they had been prescribing rest and/or rehabilitation during the offseason? Is it possible that the pain only occasionally flared up so the team had discouraged earlier surgery? We'll never know and to blame either side is silly.

 

I was under the impression that it was Ralph that got really upset over this.......

It's funny. Every time someone on this board starts slamming Brandon, Marv, Jauron, Modrak, Guy, or anyone else, I'm always the one who points out that Wilson hired all these people. My lone criticism in this thread is that I thought Brandon acted petty and not in the team's best interests. It's interesting to me that so many people think that Ralph's fingerprints are on this. I don't remember seeing or hearing anything to that effect. I did recently slam Ralph big-time for his treatment of Lou Saban, Cookie Gilchrist and Bill Polian. I believe Ralph is a petty individual but I had never associated Ralph with the Crowell thing because I'd be surprised if he micro-managed to that degree.