BuffOrange Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 This rationale to generalize success as demonstrated by amount of TD catches is absurd. This x100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Basically, anyone who calls ANY rookie a bust is clueless. The only way a rookie is a bust is if he doesn't make the team. Most players need a chance to develop, and because a rookie doesn't do well his first year it certainly doesn't mean he is a bust. Counting on rookies the first year is stupid, unless they are a top 5 pick. Even then, there should be slack for rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Basically, anyone who calls ANY rookie a bust is clueless. The only way a rookie is a bust is if he doesn't make the team. Most players need a chance to develop, and because a rookie doesn't do well his first year it certainly doesn't mean he is a bust. Counting on rookies the first year is stupid, unless they are a top 5 pick. Even then, there should be slack for rookies. Especially this particular rookie. The Bills' WR coach said that Hardy had no experience, none, reading defenses. At Indiana, they just asked him to run his route and go up for the ball. Doesn't work that way in the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 For those calling Hardy a bust......he had the same amount of TD catches as Santonio Holmes did his rookie year. Steeler fans were calling him a bust as well. Give it time people...I hope Hardy ends up as much of a bust as Holmes.Give James some time people. The guy can play and has a very good attitude. Who is calling Hardy a bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 For those calling Hardy a bust......he had the same amount of TD catches as Santonio Holmes did his rookie year. Steeler fans were calling him a bust as well. Give it time people...I hope Hardy ends up as much of a bust as Holmes.Give James some time people. The guy can play and has a very good attitude. Agree that he needs more time but questions will linger until he makes his mark on the field. He is also negatively impacted by his injury situation which can take as long as two years to fully recover from. I hope he is not like Yoboughty in the sense that Yoboughty has flashed great potential but just seems to hit with the unlucky stick every year. On the whole you have to look at Yobouty as a bust for now. Sadly, he could be very, very good if he just manages to play for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Who is calling Hardy a bust? Lol...good question...no one has but everyone seems to think they have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 James Hardy isn't a bust as of yet, by definition. However, if you are happy with his performance so far and still have unblemished hope, then you are in denial. You need to look at it like a stock. James Hardy getting picked in the 2nd round as a WR gives him a value of say....$10 DeSean Jackson drafted in the same general area can be given a starting value of $10 In comparison....say the best WR's in the league (Fitzgerald, Owens, Wayne, etc.) are all in the $40-$50 range and good starters like a Lee Evans and Hines Ward are in the $25-$35 range. The question you have to ask yourself is...what is James Hardy worth today relative to his drafted value and relative to other WRs in the league? Sure, he still has time to develop...and that can be factored into his value. You have to do the same for every other player. If James Hardy was worth $10 on draft day, I'd price him at $4-6 off of his performance this year....and after the injury, he is worth less than $5 in my opinion. Buy at $3, sell at $5. In contrast, DeSean Jackson in one season has turned into a solid starting receiver and special teams threat. While he might not be as good as a Lee Evans today, his performance along with promise puts him in that $20-$30 range right now. Now....the reason everyone has their panties in a knot about Stevie Johnson is because he was a good value for the Bills. He isn't ready to start...he might not even be a top 3 receiver, but he showed a drive for the ball, has size, and because he was drafted in the 7th round....he went up in value. A guy like Johnson coming in in the 7th is probably worth $1-$3 on draft day. If he went back in the draft today, he wouldn't be a 2nd rounder....but he would be higher than a 7th in all probability. Right now I'd say he's worth $4-$7 range. Johnson played himself up and Hardy down to about the same level. Hardy's "potential" is the only thing keeping him from being an outright lesser player than Johnson at this point...but in a year or two, there is no longer any value given for potential. People saying that Hardy still has time to develop are correct, yet don't assume he is going to become Eric Moulds or anyone at that level. At this point in time, Stevie Johnson has just as good of a chance, and the two of them combined aren't worth what Josh Reed is. Sorry for the long post, but all too many people don't really grasp the difference between value and bargain. Hardy and Johnson are about the same value, but right now Johnson was a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Look on this board and this thread and some have labelled him a bust. Listen to WGR and people are calling him a bust. My point is that those people are idiots for judging him after 1 year. He has talent and can be a game changer.....just needs time nice dozens of other WRs in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Look on this board and this thread and some have labelled him a bust. Listen to WGR and people are calling him a bust. My point is that those people are idiots for judging him after 1 year. He has talent and can be a game changer.....just needs time nice dozens of other WRs in this league. Absolutely right. The WR position is exponentially tougher in the NFL than it is in college. Night and day. He has so much to learn and it's going to take him some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 It's way too soon to even dream of calling Hardy a bust. He's been a disappointment, but there's still promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 For those calling Hardy a bust......he had the same amount of TD catches as Santonio Holmes did his rookie year. Steeler fans were calling him a bust as well. Give it time people...I hope Hardy ends up as much of a bust as Holmes.Give James some time people. The guy can play and has a very good attitude. its not all about stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 It normally takes longer for a young receiver to get a good grasp of playing in the NFL, a lot longer than most positions. I really hope he does well, and yes he is a very nice and polite young man (I know that doesn't matter in Wins and Losses, but makes me have higher hopes for him), having met him at camp a few times. I just really hope the knee injury doesn't throw his career off track too far to get it back on. He has all the skills, the build and the attitude to be a big part of the offense, hopefully he can put it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDVA Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 for those calling hardy a bust... please punch yourself in the balls and save us the headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Agreed. I'll refrain from calling him a bust, but he showed me nothing. At 53, I can position my body better to make a catch vs. tight coverage than he showed. He seems to have no clue.. It usually takes 2 to 3 years to develop a WR at the pro level, so I am not worried. Remember Eric Moulds was struggling his first few years. These two posts sum up my feeling. Calling any player a bust after one year is stupid...double that stupid for a WR. But, I have to admit that I didn't see a lot that gave me encouragement, other than he first sweet TD reception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'm not sure where this "bust" thing is coming from. I hear people saying that they were disappointed with his season, but I didn't hear anyone call him a "bust". He will be given more time to develop, but remember that this is the NFL (Not For Long) and he needs to show something soon. I was concerned on draft day when I kept hearing the Bills describe him as a "red zone specialist" and "big bodied possession receiver". I think that if you are looking for such specific player types when you draft in the NFL you take the risk of "reaching" for a player. Just draft the best receiver/player available and adjust your offense to suit his particular skill set. I'm not sure that Hardy was the best receiver available when we took him. Hopefully he will develop into exactly what the Bills were looking for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Plaxico Burress was the #8 overall pick and had 0 tds his rookie season. Let's give Hardy sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Agree that he needs more time but questions will linger until he makes his mark on the field. He is also negatively impacted by his injury situation which can take as long as two years to fully recover from. I hope he is not like Yoboughty in the sense that Yoboughty has flashed great potential but just seems to hit with the unlucky stick every year. On the whole you have to look at Yobouty as a bust for now. Sadly, he could be very, very good if he just manages to play for a while. Youboty was a 3rd round pick, not a 1st. I don't think a 3rd can be categorized as a bust. They might have expected more from him by this point for sure, but not a bust. The person who compared Hardy to Holmes doesn't understand what he's comparing. Let's look at this in detail. Santonio Holmes- 5'11", 190lbs., great speed used to get open on deep routes, excellent return man, good leaping ability for his size, uses quickness to get open on underneath routes. James Hardy- 6'5", 220lbs., decent speed, excellent leaping ability, needs to be given a chance to use his size effectively. They are 2 completely different types of players. It's like trying to compare a Lexus to a Peterbilt. It doesn't make sense. I think comparing him to a young Plax is more in line with his game as a WR. Plaxico's first season, 22 catches for 273 yards. Hopefully, Hardy gets better with time like Burress did. Does the injury set him back in his developement? Maybe, but it's hard to judge. He should have the play book memorized by the time camp rolls around with every place that he should be on every play. The only thing left is for him and TrINT to build some chemistry. Once that happens he'll put up the #'s we were hoping that he would. Worst case scenario? TrINT continues to look like Kelly Holcomb reincarnate and never shows any kind of vertical passing game. Then you will all still be calling Hardy a "bust" and Lee Evans an overpaid underachiever when it's really out of their hands. This "Bust" talk about Hardy is way too premature. We don't even have a QB who throws the ball downfield like talking about, more less throwing one up in the air where your 6'5" WR can try to make a play. First off, he needs to be put in position to suceed. The OC has to put him in places where he'll be most effective. Slant routes where he can use his body to shield a defender, fade routes where he can do the same, and deep routes where our QB can hang one up there giving him the opportunity to make a play. And for what it's worth, Holmes had his BEST game of his career in the Superbowl just like Timmy Smith, Doug Williams, Desmond Howard, and Larry Brown. This doesn't mean that he's one of the great NFL WR's all of a sudden. He's another guy who had his best day on the biggest stage. Clutch? Yes. Great? No. The guy hasn't even had a season where he's posted 1,000 yards or more than 8 TD's. Let's not start using this guy as a measuring stick for NFL WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commish95 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 When all said and done he may be a bust in Buffalo but be a stud in some other offensive system in 3 more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 "Early on in the Steelers' disappointing 2006 season, Holmes was criticized for his poor performance on special teams as a returner, a role in which he fumbled frequently. However, Holmes had better success as a receiver, displaying his athleticism and skill in several of the Steelers' games. He earned Week 6 Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Week honors for his performance October 15 against the Kansas City Chiefs, totaling 58 yards receiving and 13 yards rushing. Late in the season, Holmes replaced Cedrick Wilson in the starting lineup and finished the 2006 regular season with 49 receptions for 824 yards and 2 touchdowns. His best play of the season was also the last, when, in overtime of the Steelers' final game of the season against the Cincinnati Bengals, Holmes caught a pass from Ben Roethlisberger on a slant route and ran for a 67-yard touchdown to secure a win for the Steelers. He also returned a punt 65 yards for a touchdown on December 17 against the Carolina Panthers." Versus James Hardy 9 receptions for 87 yards and 2 TDS . There is no comparison Holmes is obviously better in his rookie season than what Hardy will do in his first 3 years combined. Therefore I see him as a bust in comparison. Bust is the wrong word for the situation. The OP got that much right. Saying a guy is a bust after any rookie season that doesn't end up with the player permanently out of the league is like calling a guy who gets smashed for the first time in his life an alcoholic. But Santonio got eight times more yardage in his rookie year. If you're going to make a comparison, make one that holds up and makes sense. There are lots of players out there who truly sucked their rookie seasons and went on to a lot of success. But Holmes simply isn't one of them. Don't isolate one statistic and pretend it tells the whole story, OP. Lazy lazy post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 It's not Hardy's fault that he was not thrown to. I remember numerous games where Chris Brown reported that Hardy was open downfield and not thrown to. He was also NOT used a Red Zone target at all. This is what infuriates me more than ever. We needed a big red zone threat, so we drafted one. Our OC and head coach, NEVER used him. The one play they did, he pulled down a huge catch against the Jags. I understand that it takes time for a WR to develop. There is no excuse AT ALL for not throwing a jump ball or fade route in the end zone. It takes barely any practice at all, and doesn't require crisp route running. He was under utilized all year, and I think if they did use him more he would have had at least 2-3 more TD's BEASTMODE, a fade route absolutely DOES require crisp route-running. When Hardy is in in the red zone, everybody in the house, including the DBs, is thinking fade route. So the DB can simply get in front of Hardy and run slowly. Or press him at the line, which he has not been able to beat. A fade route DOES require good route-running, which is why the short Lee Evans has had a fair amount of success at them. Nobody knows which way the guy is going. Everybody knows which way Hardy is going. And that's huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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