Rumor: Trent Edwards leaning towards shoulder surgery!

[ieatcrayonz]

I wonder if the 70 MPH winds might have affected how far he threw last game.

Seriously.

 

In two short years Trent has already had to play through the worst weather in franchise history three times. That is freakish. If he has a 10 year career it looks like he'll have to play in the worst weather in franchise history 15 times.

[bschmoove]

Call Jeff Garcia now

[Flbillsfan#1]

Well at least he's looking into getting it taken care of. Look at how long Schobel has been screwing around with his injury? The reports last week said they'll determine if he needs surgery in February and if surgery is needed, he'll have to rehab for at least 6 months. So the guy gets paid $8.7 million a year, he will miss a good part of 2 seasons? Trade or cut him, the DE position is suffering because of this. Now with the QB situation, bring in a veteran QB to help Edwards out (in case he is not ready to go right away). It's still too early to give up on Edwards. Besides Evans, who do we really have as a receiving threat that could change the game and make a huge difference...No One!!! Give Edwards a couple more weapons and if he still can't get the job done, then it's time to look for another QB.

I agree about a Vet QB, however I think it should be someone that can PUSH Trent into being BETTER. Competition is ALWAYS a GOOD thing.

[Steve In Atlanta 2008]

Why do you need it repaired if you are only throwing 4 yard checkdowns to josh reed and dump offs to marshawn? The docs prolly told him hold off until it bothers him. And since he doesn't throw passes over 8 yards, it probably wasn't bothering him.

 

Yall heep talking about Trents lack of ability to throw longer passes. My opinion is he does a good job of managing the west coast style offence. In fact, at the end of the day, his yards per completion was better than Rothlisberger, Peyton, Eli, McMabb, Favre of which atleast 2 have a good chance of being hall of fame qbs.

 

I like to back up my opinions with fact....

 

1 Philip Rivers 8.4

2 Drew Brees 8.0

2 Matt Schaub 8.0

4 Jake Delhomme 7.9

4 Matt Ryan 7.9

6 Chad Pennington 7.7

6 Tony Romo DAL 7.7

6 Kurt Warner ARI 7.7

9 Aaron Rodgers 7.5

10 Jay Cutler DEN 7.3

11 Matt Cassel NE 7.2

11 Trent Edwards 7.2

11 Gus Frerotte 7.2

11 Jeff Garcia 7.2

11 Peyton Manning 7.2

16 Shaun Hill 7.1

17 Ben Roethlisberger 7.0

18 Joe Flacco 6.9

18 Donovan McNabb 6.9

20 David Garrard 6.8

20 Eli Manning 6.8

22 Brett Favre

23 JaMarcus Russell 6.6

24 Jason Campbell 6.4

24 Kerry Collins 6.4

24 Kyle Orton 6.4

27 Dan Orlovsky 6.3

27 Seneca Wallace 6.3

29 Marc Bulger 6.2

29 Tyler Thigpen 6.2

31 Derek Anderson 5.7

[Magox]

Amazing all this Trent Bashing!!! I think he had a good year considering it was his first full year, and the weapons he had at his disposal. His durability is definitely a concern, but the guy can play, and I have a lot of faith in what he can do for our organization.

[KD in CA]

Oh no. There goes a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd on a QB again.

 

 

Or more likely all 3 in exchange for a 1st rounder spent on someone from North Dakota State who played on a 3-9 team last season.

[ieatcrayonz]

Yall heep talking about Trents lack of ability to throw longer passes. My opinion is he does a good job of managing the west coast style offence. In fact, at the end of the day, his yards per completion was better than Rothlisberger, Peyton, Eli, McMabb, Favre of which atleast 2 have a good chance of being hall of fame qbs.

Does the yards per completion count completions to other teams and their ensuing 80+ yard returns?

[ieatcrayonz]

Amazing all this Trent Bashing!!! I think he had a good year considering it was his first full year, and the weapons he had at his disposal. His durability is definitely a concern, but the guy can play, and I have a lot of faith in what he can do for our organization.

If you account for the draft value chart 2009 will actually be his rookie year.

[2003Contenders]

Yall heep talking about Trents lack of ability to throw longer passes. My opinion is he does a good job of managing the west coast style offence. In fact, at the end of the day, his yards per completion was better than Rothlisberger, Peyton, Eli, McMabb, Favre of which atleast 2 have a good chance of being hall of fame qbs.

 

I like to back up my opinions with fact....

 

1 Philip Rivers 8.4

2 Drew Brees 8.0

2 Matt Schaub 8.0

4 Jake Delhomme 7.9

4 Matt Ryan 7.9

6 Chad Pennington 7.7

6 Tony Romo DAL 7.7

6 Kurt Warner ARI 7.7

9 Aaron Rodgers 7.5

10 Jay Cutler DEN 7.3

11 Matt Cassel NE 7.2

11 Trent Edwards 7.2

11 Gus Frerotte 7.2

11 Jeff Garcia 7.2

11 Peyton Manning 7.2

16 Shaun Hill 7.1

17 Ben Roethlisberger 7.0

18 Joe Flacco 6.9

18 Donovan McNabb 6.9

20 David Garrard 6.8

20 Eli Manning 6.8

22 Brett Favre

23 JaMarcus Russell 6.6

24 Jason Campbell 6.4

24 Kerry Collins 6.4

24 Kyle Orton 6.4

27 Dan Orlovsky 6.3

27 Seneca Wallace 6.3

29 Marc Bulger 6.2

29 Tyler Thigpen 6.2

31 Derek Anderson 5.7

 

 

Not only that, but when he HAD to throw in the 4th quarter against the Pats in Week 17 INTO the wind, I actually thought he displayed some pretty decent arm strength.

 

I really do NOT know where all of this concern about his arm strength comes from. He has demonstrated that he can throw every NFL pass, including the deep out which REQUIRES the most arm strength. He does have a tendency to check down, but I think part of that is because of the nature of the offense -- and part of it is his comfort level in taking the more sure thing rather than gambling for a big play.

[GG]

Yall heep talking about Trents lack of ability to throw longer passes. My opinion is he does a good job of managing the west coast style offence. In fact, at the end of the day, his yards per completion was better than Rothlisberger, Peyton, Eli, McMabb, Favre of which atleast 2 have a good chance of being hall of fame qbs.

 

I like to back up my opinions with fact....

 

Since you went through the trouble, you don't happen to have the splits between yards traveled in the air, vs after the catch?

[Heels20X6]

Since you went through the trouble, you don't happen to have the splits between yards traveled in the air, vs after the catch?

 

 

This is why you rule GG....

[Beerball]

Since you went through the trouble, you don't happen to have the splits between yards traveled in the air, vs after the catch?

How about a simple yards per attempt? If I'm looking at the stats correctly...

 

At 10.6 YPA only 5 teams were lower. One of those teams made the playoffs (Indy).

[WellDressed]

This could be good news; as he hesitates going downfield. Could very well be why.

[GG]

How about a simple yards per attempt? If I'm looking at the stats correctly...

 

At 10.6 YPA only 5 teams were lower. One of those teams made the playoffs (Indy).

 

YPA may be misleading if you have a low percentage passer. I'd also have to question how can you get 10.6 YPA, and 7.2 YPC?

 

Canadian math?

[The Senator]

Amazing all this Trent Bashing!!! I think he had a good year considering it was his first full year, and the weapons he had at his disposal. His durability is definitely a concern, but the guy can play, and I have a lot of faith in what he can do for our organization.

????

 

First full year? Using the well-established JP-bashing guidelines, Edwards is now a well-seasoned, experienced 3-year starter!

[Beerball]

YPA may be misleading if you have a low percentage passer. I'd also have to question how can you get 10.6 YPA, and 7.2 YPC?

 

Canadian math?

Low percentage of completions of passes beyond 7 yards would do it wouldn't it? 7.2 per completion, but those we threw longer (raising the YPA) were rarely completed.

[2003Contenders]

OK then, help me.

 

Show me anything that points to this team winning a playoff game in 2009. Give us all a reason why we should be optimistic for this upcoming season with Dick Jauron as the coach.

 

I've "kept the faith" for a long time with this team, but we all have our breaking point. I'm there.

 

 

OK, I'll bite. Pollyanna time...

 

1. Free agency. Before declaring 2009 a lost season, let's at least wait and see what the team does in free agency and (to a lesser extent) the draft. A few prudent moves here and there to improve the pass rush, the interior of the offensive line and the TE position could go a long way toward helping this team win a few extra games. The team is in great shape against the cap -- and the decision to retain Jauron saved Wilson millions. There is no reason he shouldn't be willing to pay top dollar for quality free agents.

 

2. With all of the doom and gloom about how poorly the team played in the division, how about the fact that they actually went 7-3 outside the division? Also, all of those division losses were winnable, as were 2 of the three out-of-division losses. The only game in which they got soundly beat this year was the Arizona game. Yes, I know a loss is a loss, and it doesn't matter whether it was by 1 point or 20 points. My point just is that it would NOT take a significant amount of upgrading to modify the outcome of many of those losses. Another stat of note: .500 on the road. That is a reasonable goal to shoot for every year. It's hard to fathom the team winning only 3 games at home again next season

 

3. Maybe Jauron just had a bad year? I honestly thought he did a decent enough job the first two years here. The bad coaching decisions are inexcusable, but I don't remember him being so guilty of these types of gaffes in 2006 and 2007. He sure seemed smarter when the team was 5-1 before Trent's mid-season slump. I am sure that he will continue to be out-coached by the likes of Bellichick, but who isn't?

 

4. The team is a VERY young team. Perhaps the time is ripe for many of the young, core players to grow up. Moreover, wouldn't it be nice if we could get through a season reasonably unscathed by injuries? I wonder how much better the defense would have been with a healthy Crowell and Schobel? Miami probably loses down in Miami if McGee is healthy. If JP Losman had never set foot on the field this year, there is a good chance that we would have won 2-3 more games. Yes, injuries are a part of the game, but it sure does seem like the Bills have had more than their share the past 2 seasons.

 

5. We get a last place schedule! That only potentially helps in 2 games, but 2 games can make all the difference in the world.

 

6. The schedule looks really tough, but who's to say how good any of these teams will be?

[Steve In Atlanta 2008]

Since you went through the trouble, you don't happen to have the splits between yards traveled in the air, vs after the catch?

 

 

Does it matter?

 

an average is an average...

 

Yall will NEVER be happy. Youre the same ones who complained about Jim Kelly too!

 

 

LOL

[Beerball]

Does it matter?

 

an average is an average...

 

Yall will NEVER be happy. Youre the same ones who complained about Jim Kelly too!

 

 

LOL

Thoughts on the yards per attempt?

[GG]

Does it matter?

 

an average is an average...

 

Yall will NEVER be happy. Youre the same ones who complained about Jim Kelly too!

 

 

LOL

 

Actually it does. The only average that is absolute is 3.5. Everything else is relative.

 

Kind of like believing WC offense doesn't need Jerry Rice to be super successful.

 

And yes, I complained about Jim Kelly. But it was not about his toughness.

[Ramius]

Not only that, but when he HAD to throw in the 4th quarter against the Pats in Week 17 INTO the wind, I actually thought he displayed some pretty decent arm strength.

 

I really do NOT know where all of this concern about his arm strength comes from. He has demonstrated that he can throw every NFL pass, including the deep out which REQUIRES the most arm strength. He does have a tendency to check down, but I think part of that is because of the nature of the offense -- and part of it is his comfort level in taking the more sure thing rather than gambling for a big play.

 

1. His deep ball is horrific. Not the short and intermediate passes, but a few times a game, you need to take some shots 30+ yards down the field. Sure he can get the ball there, but the passes are often underthrown, forcing the WR to stop his pattern and come back to the ball.

 

2. He never throws the deep ball. He rarely throws any pass over 10 yards. Arm or not, you need to attempt those passes, if nothing more than to get the safeties off the line. Trent is hesitant at best and afraid at worst to throw anything other than a dumpoff/checkdown or a short pattern.

[GG]

Low percentage of completions of passes beyond 7 yards would do it wouldn't it? 7.2 per completion, but those we threw longer (raising the YPA) were rarely completed.

 

Seriously, are you taking turns as crayonz?

 

The numerator = Passing Yards, is the same

 

The denominator = attempts/completions, is different.

 

Unless it's Canadian rules, attempts will never be less than completions.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Trents problem like every Bills qb post Kelly is the same. The Bills have no weapons to attack different areas of the field. Outside of Josh Reed who's working the middle of the field? Where's the guy to take pressure off of Evans. Just cause the deep ball is sexy to watch on television, doesn't make it a prudent move, when you're forcing it into double coverage. I'd rather the quarterback take the safe route short-intermediate level throw. The Pats lived off this stuff for years. Then they went out and got Ben Watson, who with his speed, and athletic ability had to be respected as a threat down the seem. You can't just go "Well we have Evans and Parrish where's the deep ball? When all safeties have to do is shadow over the top and drop lb's into the short area zones to neutralize Josh Reed. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is. Every good offense in the nfl today, has a receiving threat at the tight end position. The Bills have a bunch of trash. We'll continue to see the same safe check down display, with no big play potential until a threat at te is brought in.

[Beerball]

Seriously, are you taking turns as crayonz?

 

The numerator = Passing Yards, is the same

 

The denominator = attempts/completions, is different.

 

Unless it's Canadian rules, attempts will never be less than completions.

OK, I'm stuupid now thoroughly embarassed. But...the 7.2 appears to be YPA, too if this is correct. The figures I was looking at were for the team, not Edwards specifically. So, I'm screwed up more than once.

[Bill from NYC]

Amazing all this Trent Bashing!!! I think he had a good year considering it was his first full year, and the weapons he had at his disposal. His durability is definitely a concern, but the guy can play, and I have a lot of faith in what he can do for our organization.

 

Don't be amazed. The JP knob polishing fanboys have been sidetracked by the news about keeping Jauron, and their darling is gone, on to pollute some other team.

Hopefully, some of the fanboys will go with him.

[GG]

OK, I'm stuupid now thoroughly embarassed. But...the 7.2 appears to be YPA, too ifthis is correct. The figures I was looking at were for the team, not Edwards specifically. So, I'm screwed up more than once.

 

Makes a lot more sense, and YPA is more widely used, especially since it also subtracts sack yds from the total (No love for Losman from that stat.)

[Ramius]

Don't be amazed. The JP knob polishing fanboys have been sidetracked by the news about keeping Jauron, and thier darling is gone, on to pollute some other team.

Hopefully, some of the fanboys will go with him.

 

Ok, the 67 of you guys that guessed BillfromNYC would be the first to bring JP trash into this trent edwards thread will have to split the cash for the winner. The rest of you that picked "thebug" will have to wait until the next thread.

[Bmwolf21]

Don't be amazed. The JP knob polishing fanboys have been sidetracked by the news about keeping Jauron, and thier darling is gone, on to pollute some other team.

Hopefully, some of the fanboys will go with him.

Wow, you have a serious hard-on for JP and his "fanboys."

 

Criticism of the almighty Trent's arm strength and durability =/= being a JP fanboy.

[ieatcrayonz]

Don't be amazed. The JP knob polishing fanboys have been sidetracked by the news about keeping Jauron, and thier darling is gone, on to pollute some other team.

Hopefully, some of the fanboys will go with him.

Dude, say what you want about JP but at least try to be fair.

 

He simply does not pollute. As a matter of fact he cleans up.

[Beerball]

Makes a lot more sense, and YPA is more widely used, especially since it also subtracts sack yds from the total (No love for Losman from that stat.)

For what it's worth(less) I figured yards per completion. Of the top 20 QBs in YPA Trent's 11.02 YPC ranks 18. Of the 32 players listed he would rank #25 which would indicate that he doesn't stretch the field much. Funny that this hasn't been recognized.

 

OK, did I screw that up too?

[HurlyBurly51]

Don't be amazed. The JP knob polishing fanboys have been sidetracked by the news about keeping Jauron, and thier darling is gone, on to pollute some other team.

Hopefully, some of the fanboys will go with him.

 

The one nice thing about the RJ/Flutie days are that the Flakes all left with him when little Dougie departed.

[GG]

For what it's worth(less) I figured yards per completion. Of the top 20 QBs in YPA Trent's 11.02 YPC ranks 18. Of the 32 players listed he would rank #25 which would indicate that he doesn't stretch the field much. Funny that this hasn't been recognized.

 

OK, did I screw that up too?

 

Sounds about right. Edwards' YPA is high because he has a high completion percentage and low sacks. But his YPC is low because the passes he does complete are short yardage ones.

 

"Funny that this hasn't been recognized." - Not on fan forums. But definitely in opponents' film rooms.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan 2]

Was Dean Russin from the Oneonta Press the source? Please tell me you know Dean Russin.....sports writer in Oneonta...

Name sounds familiar but sorry man, I don't know him.

[ieatcrayonz]

Was Dean Russin from the Oneonta Press the source? Please tell me you know Dean Russin.....sports writer in Oneonta...

Isn't being a sports writer in Oneonta like being a Science editor in Canada?

[MRW]

Don't be amazed. The JP knob polishing fanboys have been sidetracked by the news about keeping Jauron, and thier darling is gone, on to pollute some other team.

Hopefully, some of the fanboys will go with him.

Wow. I'm left wondering if you will ever have anything worthwhile to contribute to a QB discussion or if this will be your MO for the next 5 years.

[Johnny Coli]

For what it's worth(less) I figured yards per completion. Of the top 20 QBs in YPA Trent's 11.02 YPC ranks 18. Of the 32 players listed he would rank #25 which would indicate that he doesn't stretch the field much. Funny that this hasn't been recognized.

 

OK, did I screw that up too?

You could also look at who is getting the receptions. Looking back at the 2006 through 2008 seasons and taking the top eight team leaders in receptions, the breakdown is as follows:

 

2006 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 188

TE 30

RB 40

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-4 WR

5 TE

6-7 RB

8 TE

 

2007 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 141

TE 50

RB 55

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-3 WR

4-5 TE

6-8 RB

 

2008 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 153

TE 48

RB 84

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-2 WR

3-4 RB

5 TE

6 WR

7 TE

8 WR

 

 

Receptions by the WRs declined 2006 to 2007/2008. However, receptions to RBs in 2008 shot up 152%, where the 3rd and 4th highest reception totals on the team were by the two RBs. By coaching design or by player aversion to take a shot down the field, Edwards has been dumping it off to the RBs at a fairly high rate and at the expense of the WRs.

[Arkady Renko]

You could also look at who is getting the receptions. Looking back at the 2006 through 2008 seasons and taking the top eight team leaders in receptions, the breakdown is as follows:

 

2006 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 188

TE 30

RB 40

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-4 WR

5 TE

6-7 RB

8 TE

 

2007 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 141

TE 50

RB 55

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-3 WR

4-5 TE

6-8 RB

 

2008 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 153

TE 48

RB 84

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-2 WR

3-4 RB

5 TE

6 WR

7 TE

8 WR

 

 

Receptions by the WRs declined 2006 to 2007/2008. However, receptions to RBs in 2008 shot up 152%, where the 3rd and 4th highest reception totals on the team were by the two RBs. By coaching design or by player aversion to take a shot down the field, Edwards has been dumping it off to the RBs at a fairly high rate and at the expense of the WRs.

 

As if getting the ball to the RBs and involving them in the offense is automatically "dumping it off" and a bad thing. New England's offense is built on screens to RBs, WRs and others, as well as quick slants. Getting the ball to playmakers quickly and with space is not a bad thing.

[ieatcrayonz]

As if getting the ball to the RBs and involving them in the offense is automatically "dumping it off" and a bad thing. New England's offense is built on screens to RBs, WRs and others, as well as quick slants. Getting the ball to playmakers quickly and with space is not a bad thing.

Good point. Many cornerbacks are playmakers.

[Steve In Atlanta 2008]

Wow. I'm left wondering if you will ever have anything worthwhile to contribute to a QB discussion or if this will be your MO for the next 5 years.

 

 

I dont know what the heck yall are talking about but given that our beloved Jim Kellys lifetime YPC average is 7.4 and Trents this year was 7.2 says allot

[Steve In Atlanta 2008]

You could also look at who is getting the receptions. Looking back at the 2006 through 2008 seasons and taking the top eight team leaders in receptions, the breakdown is as follows:

 

2006 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 188

TE 30

RB 40

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-4 WR

5 TE

6-7 RB

8 TE

 

2007 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 141

TE 50

RB 55

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-3 WR

4-5 TE

6-8 RB

 

2008 team receptions by position (using the top eight players):

WR 153

TE 48

RB 84

 

The top eight went (1 = leader in receptions):

1-2 WR

3-4 RB

5 TE

6 WR

7 TE

8 WR

 

 

Receptions by the WRs declined 2006 to 2007/2008. However, receptions to RBs in 2008 shot up 152%, where the 3rd and 4th highest reception totals on the team were by the two RBs. By coaching design or by player aversion to take a shot down the field, Edwards has been dumping it off to the RBs at a fairly high rate and at the expense of the WRs.

 

 

wow its nice that other people are supporting their statements with facts!