Fan in Chicago Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Peppers would be a great addition to our team. I think Denney & Kelsay should be cut loose after the season. Earlier you proposed sending Schobel off in a 'package deal'. So let me get this straight - you are proposing we get rid of 3 of our current DEs ? Who do we fill those spots with ? I think we should keep Schobel as starter, Denney for depth and draft/acquire a premier DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Earlier you proposed sending Schobel off in a 'package deal'. So let me get this straight - you are proposing we get rid of 3 of our current DEs ? Who do we fill those spots with ? I think we should keep Schobel as starter, Denney for depth and draft/acquire a premier DE. We draft them. This board is in love with drafting Dlinemen. However, we've seen that drafting them on day 1 (McCargo, Flowers) that it doesn't always pay off. don't start casting people off until we find some upgrades. Besides if Schobel is that bad...who is going to want him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Earlier you proposed sending Schobel off in a 'package deal'. So let me get this straight - you are proposing we get rid of 3 of our current DEs ? Who do we fill those spots with ? I think we should keep Schobel as starter, Denney for depth and draft/acquire a premier DE. Our DE's suck, bottom line. Kelsay & Denney are 3rd stringers, not 2nd stringers or starters. If we cut Schobel, we're gonna take a big hit with the salary cap issues. So if we trade him or package him in on a trade, then we won't take such a hit. Yes, Schobel is the best DE we have, but he's currently not playing and hasn't played for a while, and when he was healthy, he hasn't done anything since the 06' season. So in that regard, is he really worth $7 million a year? You are right, the Bills need to wait and get players to fill the positions before they start cutting people loose. But DE is our biggest weakness on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Ellis ran a 4.76. When did he run that? Upon further review, I see he ran a 4.71 at the combine, but NFL.com and CBS Sports said he "has 4.56 speed." I do some more research, and it turns out he ran the 4.56 as a sophomore, before he added some muscle. Still, he is known to be very agile and was able to get around the corner very well in college. And his 4.71 at the combine was among the best run by d-ends this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenbar Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 because the bills think those qualities are important and, at the end of the day, there opinion means a lot more then you so whether you like it or not isn't really the question here - it's what the bills like, and they have proven they like kelsay.......no question in my mind he'll be back in '09 And so will all those end arounds reverses and bootlegs for double digit gains....The man has no concept of end containment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 scouts inc on Ellis prior to the draft Strengths Quick, anticipates snap counts fairly well and flashes the ability to disrupt running plays behind the line of scrimmage. Takes adequate angles to the ball, plays with a good motor and makes some plays in pursuit. Is fast enough to turn the corner, has above-average but not elite closing speed and is a relentless pass rusher. Can change directions quickly and is capable of developing effective double moves. Wraps up upon contact and is a sound open field tackler that Flashes the ability to deliver the big hit. Tall enough to add bulk up and should get stronger at the point of attack. Weaknesses Undersized and is vulnerable to wearing down if asked to play an every-down role. Plays a little too high, doesn't have great lower body strength and is going to struggle to anchor when teams run at him. Doesn't deliver a powerful punch and can take too long to shed blocks. Relies on burst too much, doesn't do a great job of setting offensive tackles up to the outside before redirecting inside and isn't capable of regularly beating double teams. Lacks ideal awareness and doesn't always get hands up when isn't going to get to the quarterback. Charged with obstructing an officer in late September 2006 and Virginia Tech suspended him for the Georgia Tech game as a result. Underwent shoulder surgery to repair torn labrum in right shoulder in 2003, slowed by shoulder injury during 2006 season, he missed 2007 spring practices after undergoing shoulder surgery and his durability is a concern. Overall Ellis was redshirted in 2003. In his next three seasons (2004-'06), he appeared in 38 games (21 starts) and registered 112 tackles (27 for losses) and 13.5 sacks. As a senior in 2007, he started all 14 games and posted 53 tackles (nine for losses), 8.5 sacks, a forced fumble, an interception (which he returned five yards for a touchdown) and five pass breakups. Ellis sat out 2007 spring drills after having surgery to repair a torn labrum in his right shoulder. He had the same surgery in October of his redshirt freshman year ('03). He also suffered a right shoulder sprain in 2006 but played through the injury. In 2006, he was arrested for disorderly conduct and obstruction of justice. Ellis' injury history and problems anchoring against the run make him a fringe first day pick but he's got the frame to add some weight and get stronger at the point of attack so there's a lot to like about his upside in a one-gap scheme. In addition, he has the burst and top-end speed to make an immediate impact as a situational pass rusher. I keep seeing 4.7 ranges as his 40 time, but that shoulder injury and the lack of push I've seen from him is a concern. Shoulder injuries to lineman are like lower body injuries to RBs. Without strong shoulders its hard to get a good push and shed/make blocks. His trouble against the run would lead me to believe he would not be a good converted LB outside of a 34 pass rusher role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Kelsay and Denny are fine as depth players, what we need is a DE stud FA Suggs or Peppers Ellis is a depth player and will be replaced by DiGiornio, Alvin Bowen and #1 draft pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 Ellis is a depth player and will be replaced by DiGiornio, Alvin Bowen and #1 draft pick Ellis is a DE pass rushing specialist. How is he going to be replaced by DiGiornio or Bowen who are LB'ers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepizzaking Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Maybe he's got him mixed up with Ellison ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Kelsay and Denny are fine as depth players, what we need is a DE stud FA Suggs or Peppers Ellis is a depth player and will be replaced by DiGiornio, Alvin Bowen and #1 draft pick How in the hell can 2 LB's replace a DE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think Denney should be cut loose. Trade Schobel in a package deal in order to move up high in the 1st round to draft an impact DE. Are there any good DE's coming up in free agency in the offseason? You really need to pay more attention to some individual play. Denney isn't a pass rusher, given, but he plays a far more complete game than that "sh*t the bed" Kelsay. Denney is a backup, but a sound and competent one. Kesay was called a "Phil Hansen" type when he joined the Bills. Christ, he isn't even worth Phil Hansen's old, dirty, used jock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 You really need to pay more attention to some individual play. Denney isn't a pass rusher, given, but he plays a far more complete game than that "sh*t the bed" Kelsay. Denney is a backup, but a sound and competent one. Kesay was called a "Phil Hansen" type when he joined the Bills. Christ, he isn't even worth Phil Hansen's old, dirty, used jock. I will give credit to Schobel & Denney, both are good at defending against the run. But the DE's main job is to put pressure on the QB, and neither one has done a great job of it the last 2 years (even when Schobel was healthy last year & this year). No QB pressure means good QB's in the league will continue to make plays and eat our defense up (See the Cards game & our 3 division losses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 people can complain about it all they want, but kelsay will be a bill in '09........he's a good locker room guy who brings it all on sunday........is he the most talented player? nope, but he does his job and works hard..........yes, he was a big part of the long LJ run yesterday, but that is one play and he was far from the only one out of position - why aren't you pointing the finger at them?.........and i don't see how any evaluation of his game yesterday ignores the two tackles he made FOR LOSS He also had resonisibility for the naked bootleg, but followed the line into the middle until it was too late. That's a rookie mistake, a rush of blood mistake. He's paid too much to for that outcome. You have to play your responsibility first if you're value is highest off of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 He also had resonisibility for the naked bootleg, but followed the line into the middle until it was too late. That's a rookie mistake, a rush of blood mistake. He's paid too much to for that outcome. You have to play your responsibility first if you're value is highest off of the field. You must have missed the earlier posts. He's a good locker room guy, hard worker(high motoro), the Bills FO likes him and thats all that matters!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Why trade Schobel ? He performs well but he is the only good DE on our team. We absolutely need a top-flight DE to complement him which will make AS much better. I thought Stroud was going to make him that much better? If we get a "top-flight DE to complement him" he may be better than Bruce ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 I thought Stroud was going to make him that much better? If we get a "top-flight DE to complement him" he may be better than Bruce ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Ellis is a depth player and will be replaced by DiGiornio, Alvin Bowen and #1 draft pick And you call us morons? Ellis(on?) is a depth player who is going to be replaced by 3 players? If it's gonna take 3 to replace 1 that player better be pretty fuggin good. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I thought Stroud was going to make him that much better? If we get a "top-flight DE to complement him" he may be better than Bruce ever was. Maybe Bryce (Paup) but not Bruce Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 These guys are pretty good against the run, and hard to throw over. Thats the most you can say about them. Schobel will not be back this year, so we just have to start liking it. Or put an extra DT in there and play a 5-2 that can turn into a 3-4 like the ravens on short yardage. Our guys would be well suited for that. I am shocked to see that ellis only benched 350. That is totally inexcusable for someone of his size. At six two, 210 with a sprinter physique I put up that much. He looked like a boy among men out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Considering his salary, Kelsay should be off the team next year. Not benched...OFF THE TEAM! Don't tell me about the two times he actually made a tackle yesterday. He is a joke of a player. Wasn't it Kelsay who was chasing after Thigpen while Johnson was running in a lane where Kelsay should have been, on his way to a 60+ yard gain? When he isn't taking himself out of position, he is getting locked up in a big way by whatever tackle he faces, good or bad. On the rare occasion, that Kelsay does get a shot at the QB, even QB's with little mobility can find a way to make him miss. Denney I can live with since the Bills aren't paying him a ton of money, but Kelsay is a joke and so are the Bills for giving him the contract he has. Just one quick note on Ellis and why he may not be playing. There was a play yesterday(it may have been one of McKelvin's interceptions), where the RT knocked Ellis to the ground with what amounted to a straight arm to the shoulder. I mean send him flying backward right on his ass. Hopefully Ellis hits the weight room in the offseason and improves on his techniques. There's a run on them in the 1st round. Last draft, 5 were selected in the 1st round. 3 in the 2nd. 2 in the 3rd, including Ellis. http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#dt-tab-se...y-round/round-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Does Ellis look better when viewed through beer goggles? Just wonderin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 He looks warm and lovable, but not more effective on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 I thought Stroud was going to make him that much better? If we get a "top-flight DE to complement him" he may be better than Bruce ever was. Point noted. However, I still think that Stroud's partner ain't too great. Sounds like an excuse but a good DL should have mostly above average players and perhaps a couple of play makers. An upgrade to the other DE spot should make a big difference. Our secondary is a good example with McKelvin showing promise as a game changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Hello 1st round DE!!!!!!!!!!! No no. 1st round is reserved for DBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I hate the Bills ! Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Kelsey is way over paid for what he produces on the field, except for the play against Dallas last year with the block/int/td he hasnt done much. If it came down to him and Denney Id take Denney, hes cheaper and has better stats ! All of our De need an upgrade ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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