2009 Draft Approach...Now with a second 4th Round Pick

[Nightcrawler]

It's eating me alive to think that the Bills traded a 2nd and 3rd round pick to get a first round bust in John McCargo. I remember this draft and how shocked draft analysts and media professionals were that Buffalo traded up for McCargo when he could have easily been picked up in the second or third round of that 2006 draft.

 

Still, to get a 4th round pick from Indy for McCargo is a good deal for Buffalo. The question now is...how does this additional 4th rounder affect Buffalo's draft? And, how big of a need does DT become in April's draft with a noticeably lack of depth at the DT position?

 

I welcome your thoughts.

 

As for me, I know many people can point to OLB and TE as our biggest needs. The arguments are valid. But, I still think Buffalo needs to strengthen its offensive and defensive line play first in the draft. Buffalo gives up way too many sacks (a la Trent Edwards eating turf and having his brains scrambled), and let's face it...the Bills do not have a strong pass rush! Sure, there is talent on the line in Stroud, Schobel, and Williams. Yet, there is a lack of depth and versatility on the line to pressure the opposing quarterback.

 

With an additional 4th round pick, I would approach the draft this way.

 

1st Pick-OC Alex Mack (Fowler is going to be a free agent and he is the weakest starter on the O-line)

2nd Pick-DE (bolster that pass rush, and we can get rid of Copeland Bryan)

3rd Pick-OLB (Digorgio, Ellison, and Bowen bring depth to the linebacking corp, but this pick adds a likely starter)

4th Pick-TE (We keep Royal for blocking and two tight ends sets. This pick replaces either Schouman or Fine)

4th Pick-OG/OT (We will lose Kirk Chambers, a swing tackle unless he resigns. Whittle and Preston are also free agents. I would resign Chambers and Preston for depth. Let Whittle go. I wouldn't mind resigning Fowler but he would only be a backup)

5th Pick-DT (Somebody to serve as the 4th/5th DT to rotate with the combo of Johnson, Stroud and Williams)

6th Pick-FS (Be honest...Ko Simpson is serviceable. George Wilson, Wendling, and Bryan Scott are all great special team contributors, but it never hurts to get a potential FS to either add more depth or replace one of these special teamers)

7th Pick-FB (He has only one job...block! Buffalo either needs to get a blocking FB or abandon the FB concept completely)

 

Offseason signings

1. A veteran backup quarterback (Losman is gone, and Hamdan is not a legit backup)

2. A true #2 Receiver (unfortunately the Dallas Roy Williams signing makes it almost impossible for Buffalo to get a legit #2 without giving up a 1st and 2nd round pick. Evans, Reed, and Parrish form a good corp, but please know that James Hardy will not turn into a true #2. He'll become a competent goal line/red zone receiver but will never be more than a #4 receiver on a depth chart.

 

What do you think?

 

--Nightcrawler

[JPicc2114]

replaces Derek Fine??

 

 

give the guy a chance he hasent even a had a chance to play yet.

[Tsaikotic]

my sig shows what I'd like

[JPicc2114]

Coffman would fit better on a team that runs a spread type offense such as New England

[Joe Miner]

Coffman would fit better on a team that runs a spread type offense such as New England

 

I like Coffman as well, but he better learn to use his size and quit that hurdling a defender crap in the NFL.

 

If you want a pass catching TE, check out Germaine Gresham from OU as well. He's likely the best TE in the Big 12. I couldn't tell you how his blocking is.

[mjohns85]

i think de should be our #1 priority

[Tsaikotic]

i think de should be our #1 priority

 

why do you think that?....Buffalo would have to pick a DE in the first or its a waste...they already have a pass rushing DE sitting in street clothes every game because he dosent fit into the ST as well as C.Bryan...Buffalo needs a C, TE, and now DT before they can go DE imo...anyone know the depth at DE in 2009 draft class?...if theres only 1-3 DE worth a 1st, they might be gone before Buffalo picks in the 20's...my thought on this might change if Bills tank and we pick in the top 15.

[Pete]

we need pass rushers more then anything. That just might be what this team needs to win a Super Bowl

[Tsaikotic]

we need pass rushers more then anything. That just might be what this team needs to win a Super Bowl

 

I think Buffalo screwed themselves in this area tho..they extended both Schobel and Kelsay to huge contracts...if they grabbed a 1st or 2nd round DE now theyd have to pay him good cash and then what do you do?...you have to get rid of one the 4 DE you allready have on the team...Ellis is a good DE just sitting right now...Denney, not being the recent draft pick and not haveing a huge impact on Buffalos salary cap hit, would be the odd man out and hed be dumped..then what?...keep sitting Ellis because a new guy took over for Denney?...I think Buffalo's FO thinks its fine where they are at DE....if Bills didnt extend Schobel and Kelsay the way they did, they might be up to looking into a new DE.

[Saint Doug]

I don't think the Bills are going to see TE as a high priority in the draft. Maybe they take one in 4th or 5th. We do have Schouman and Fine that could possibly develop. In addition, I believe our passing game is going to be greatly improved next year when Hardy starts coming around. So, maybe we really don't need a pass catching TE and we already have blocking TEs.

 

Now, our d-line is really in need. We only have 3 DTs on the roster. So, we need to add one of those in the 1st or 2nd. We also have no pass rush. Schobel may be making a bunch of tackles still, but he really hasn't been a disruptive force in the back field like he used to. In fact, due to his high salary, I wouldn't be surprised if he was released before open day next season. Remember, it's a business, he's getting old, and he makes too much money. We then also need another OLB, that is if Bowman cannot be expected to crack the lineup. Too bad he's injured.

 

A center is another priority and I can see us taking on either 2nd or 3rd.

[Captain Quint]

I don't think the Bills are going to see TE as a high priority in the draft. Maybe they take one in 4th or 5th. We do have Schouman and Fine that could possibly develop. In addition, I believe our passing game is going to be greatly improved next year when Hardy starts coming around. So, maybe we really don't need a pass catching TE and we already have blocking TEs.

 

Now, our d-line is really in need. We only have 3 DTs on the roster. So, we need to add one of those in the 1st or 2nd. We also have no pass rush. Schobel may be making a bunch of tackles still, but he really hasn't been a disruptive force in the back field like he used to. In fact, due to his high salary, I wouldn't be surprised if he was released before open day next season. Remember, it's a business, he's getting old, and he makes too much money. We then also need another OLB, that is if Bowman cannot be expected to crack the lineup. Too bad he's injured.

 

A center is another priority and I can see us taking on either 2nd or 3rd.

 

I wouldn't count on Bowan to do anything other than special teams. He's smaller than Keith Ellison, and he just blew out his knee, which will probably slow him down some. I didn't understand this pick other than for special teams purposes.

[lets_go_bills]

When we traded up, I actually though we were going to draft Winston Justice.

 

I think DE is priority #1.

 

We'll have to wait and see what free angency yields, of course, but right now I would go:

1: DE

2: C

3: OLB

4: TE

4: QB

5: RB

6: OT

7: DT

[LabattBlue]

we need pass rushers more then anything. That just might be what this team needs to win a Super Bowl

Nobody knows if Ellis will pan out as even a pass rush specialist(let alone a 3 down lineman), but I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a DE in the first round. Denney is never going to be more than a backup, Kelsay is very average as a started and Schobel is adequate for another couple of years, but getting older.

[Coach Tuesday]

What about a passrushing OLB/DE hybrid?

[Guest three3]

it serves as ammunition for a trade up in an earlier round, good trade. now robert royal better step it up and d. fine also

[auburnbillsbacker]

The extra fourth gives the bill some ammunition to trade up. If the stand pat, they will take the best athlete available. The bills have had good luck in the 4th round and 5th, with McGee, Butler, Williams, and Simpson being drafted. Let's hope for the best.

[devldog131]

My thoughts are that the draft is a long way away. We have 14 more football games to worry about before we even think about who we are going to draft in April.

[lets_go_bills]

What about a passrushing OLB/DE hybrid?

 

We don't deploy a 3-4 defence.

[Tsaikotic]

My thoughts are that the draft is a long way away. We have 14 more football games to worry about before we even think about who we are going to draft in April.

 

I don't agree...we know what the team looks like right now and its not really hard to make guesses at what would make the team better right now...mix that with the fact that last draft we knew what would have been needed and what the Bills actually got and whats left now to get...the only thing that is different is we don't know what the Bills will pick up and lose during FA next offseason...so basically building a rough draft so to say of next years draft really isn't that hard right now.

 

my sig is just that..a rough draft of what I would like to see next april...course it will change quite a few times as we find out how well Fine plays and how well the O-line works out for the remanding games...If Fine proves to be a good recieving TE I possably could take TE off my sig or move it down to the 4th/5th...

 

When we traded up, I actually though we were going to draft Winston Justice.

 

I think DE is priority #1.

 

We'll have to wait and see what free angency yields, of course, but right now I would go:

1: DE

2: C

3: OLB

4: TE

4: QB

5: RB

6: OT

7: DT

 

I agree most those are needed..minus RB, OT and QB... but I think DT should be closer to 1st - 4th round..with McCargo gone and Stroud being older that is.

 

not in any order - DE, C, OLB, DT, OG, SS, TE

[ans4e64]

It's eating me alive to think that the Bills traded a 2nd and 3rd round pick to get a first round bust in John McCargo. I remember this draft and how shocked draft analysts and media professionals were that Buffalo traded up for McCargo when he could have easily been picked up in the second or third round of that 2006 draft.

 

Its eating me alive every time I see people saying that we gave up a 2nd and 3rd rounder for him. The only pick we gave up was the third. He was our second pick. We gave two picks to get one back, that is a net loss of one draft pick, not two.

 

Considering we got a Pro Bowl DT in Stroud for a 3rd and 5th rounder, and traded McCargo for a 4th, I'd say its an excellent return based on the market. Randy Moss went for a 4th for chrissakes.

 

Still, to get a 4th round pick from Indy for McCargo is a good deal for Buffalo. The question now is...how does this additional 4th rounder affect Buffalo's draft? And, how big of a need does DT become in April's draft with a noticeably lack of depth at the DT position?

 

DT was a top need before the trading of McCargo. With or without McCargo, if Stroud goes down, we are screwed. McCargo wasn't adding anything except a pain in Jauron's ass. Kyle Williams is a very good player, but we need a second bigger guy for depth.

[ans4e64]

why do you think that?

 

Probably because once again, we are in the bottom third of the league in sacks.

 

Buffalo would have to pick a DE in the first or its a waste

 

Ever heard of Osi Umenyiora, Robert Mathis, Aaron Kampman, Alex Brown, Aaron Schobel, Kyle Vanden Bosch, or Derrick Burgess?

[Tsaikotic]

ok I changed my sig a bit..not because I fallow the crowd, but because after thinking about it I could see the points...this one looks better I think.

[ans4e64]

I think Buffalo screwed themselves in this area tho..they extended both Schobel and Kelsay to huge contracts...if they grabbed a 1st or 2nd round DE now theyd have to pay him good cash and then what do you do?...you have to get rid of one the 4 DE you allready have on the team

 

You're right. Lets keep players that aren't producing on the roster because they have "big" salaries. We don't need an upgrade.

 

Ellis is a good DE just sitting right now...

 

How would you know? Have you seen him play in the NFL somewhere?

 

Denney, not being the recent draft pick and not haveing a huge impact on Buffalos salary cap hit, would be the odd man out and hed be dumped..

 

Do you really think that NFL teams base playing time according to a descending rank order of salaries? Step away from your Xbox 360...

[ans4e64]

I don't think the Bills are going to see TE as a high priority in the draft. Maybe they take one in 4th or 5th. We do have Schouman and Fine that could possibly develop. In addition, I believe our passing game is going to be greatly improved next year when Hardy starts coming around. So, maybe we really don't need a pass catching TE and we already have blocking TEs.

 

Is it written in Hardy's contract somewhere that in his second year it is guaranteed that he will "come around"?

 

You can't approach an offseason not addressing needs because you assume players will "come around."

[Saint Doug]

My thoughts are that the draft is a long way away. We have 14 more football games to worry about before we even think about who we are going to draft in April.

 

Talking about the draft in October doesn't make us any less of a fan of the Bills than you are. We're not only fans of the present bills, but also of the past and future Bills.

 

And besides, this is a message board. It's here for fun and to speculate. We're not the ones suiting up for games on Sunday. Additionally, draft talk is the topic that is clearly displayed in the thread's title. You can chose to partake or not.

[Fewell733]

big DT - the 6'4/6'5 300+ type, no fattys

TE - as always - an athletic pass catcher would be nice

big LB - after Poz and Mitchell, all our lbers are tiny

Center - I'd rather pick up a veteran FA as well then rely on a rookie to start right away.

[Tsaikotic]

'ans4e64' date='Oct 15 2008, 06:46 PM'

You're right. Lets keep players that aren't producing on the roster because they have "big" salaries. We don't need an upgrade.

 

I didnt mean keep them because of the big salaries...I am who dosent give a crap about how much players make...I was refering to the fact that the Bills FO must see them as being here for a while, so hence the huge contracts..does this mean they wont dump them tomarrow..nope..but to me it shows it's a spot they must not be to worried about.

 

How would you know? Have you seen him play in the NFL somewhere?

 

ok maybe a bad choice of words, but have you seen him play somewhere to say hes not?

 

 

Do you really think that NFL teams base playing time according to a descending rank order of salaries? Step away from your Xbox 360...

 

dont own a xbox 360 sorry...but yes in a way...IMO, teams are more hesitant to sit a 40 million dollar player over a 1 million dollar player, unless that 1 million dollar player plays extremely well, then he becomes a 40 million dollar player.

[Saint Doug]

Is it written in Hardy's contract somewhere that in his second year it is guaranteed that he will "come around"?

 

You can't approach an offseason not addressing needs because you assume players will "come around."

 

No, its not. But, that is why we drafted him so high - to be a regular and efficient contributor. And I assume the people in the Bills FO have every expectation of him coming around, or else they would never have drafted him so high. Sure, he may be a big bust, but you certainly can't build a team by expecting your draft choices becoming busts. Now, I would agree that the FO probably doesn't exactly know what they have in a 7th round pick. But, if you can have faith in your first day picks, then your in trouble (see: Detroit Lions).

 

By your logic, we should also be drafting DB on the first day because we just don't know if McKelvin pan out.

[BuffaninATL]

It's eating me alive to think that the Bills traded a 2nd and 3rd round pick to get a first round bust in John McCargo. I remember this draft and how shocked draft analysts and media professionals were that Buffalo traded up for McCargo when he could have easily been picked up in the second or third round of that 2006 draft.

 

Still, to get a 4th round pick from Indy for McCargo is a good deal for Buffalo. The question now is...how does this additional 4th rounder affect Buffalo's draft? And, how big of a need does DT become in April's draft with a noticeably lack of depth at the DT position?

 

I welcome your thoughts.

 

As for me, I know many people can point to OLB and TE as our biggest needs. The arguments are valid. But, I still think Buffalo needs to strengthen its offensive and defensive line play first in the draft. Buffalo gives up way too many sacks (a la Trent Edwards eating turf and having his brains scrambled), and let's face it...the Bills do not have a strong pass rush! Sure, there is talent on the line in Stroud, Schobel, and Williams. Yet, there is a lack of depth and versatility on the line to pressure the opposing quarterback.

 

With an additional 4th round pick, I would approach the draft this way.

 

1st Pick-OC Alex Mack (Fowler is going to be a free agent and he is the weakest starter on the O-line)

2nd Pick-DE (bolster that pass rush, and we can get rid of Copeland Bryan)

3rd Pick-OLB (Digorgio, Ellison, and Bowen bring depth to the linebacking corp, but this pick adds a likely starter)

4th Pick-TE (We keep Royal for blocking and two tight ends sets. This pick replaces either Schouman or Fine)

4th Pick-OG/OT (We will lose Kirk Chambers, a swing tackle unless he resigns. Whittle and Preston are also free agents. I would resign Chambers and Preston for depth. Let Whittle go. I wouldn't mind resigning Fowler but he would only be a backup)

5th Pick-DT (Somebody to serve as the 4th/5th DT to rotate with the combo of Johnson, Stroud and Williams)

6th Pick-FS (Be honest...Ko Simpson is serviceable. George Wilson, Wendling, and Bryan Scott are all great special team contributors, but it never hurts to get a potential FS to either add more depth or replace one of these special teamers)

7th Pick-FB (He has only one job...block! Buffalo either needs to get a blocking FB or abandon the FB concept completely)

 

Offseason signings

1. A veteran backup quarterback (Losman is gone, and Hamdan is not a legit backup)

2. A true #2 Receiver (unfortunately the Dallas Roy Williams signing makes it almost impossible for Buffalo to get a legit #2 without giving up a 1st and 2nd round pick. Evans, Reed, and Parrish form a good corp, but please know that James Hardy will not turn into a true #2. He'll become a competent goal line/red zone receiver but will never be more than a #4 receiver on a depth chart.

 

What do you think?

 

--Nightcrawler

 

OK, here's what I think : We officially have known for over a week that Edwards' brains were scrambled - give it a rest ! You are now about the 90th poster who told us what we already know with this lame comment.

 

Enough. Give it a rest.

 

Also, to you and all posters: it is a receiving/linebacking CORPS, not "corp"

 

Hey Mel Kiper, How do you know Hardy will not turn into a true #2? He is 5 games into his first season....give him a chance

[ans4e64]

No, its not. But, that is why we drafted him so high - to be a regular and efficient contributor. And I assume the people in the Bills FO have every expectation of him coming around, or else they would never have drafted him so high. Sure, he may be a big bust, but you certainly can't build a team by expecting your draft choices becoming busts. Now, I would agree that the FO probably doesn't exactly know what they have in a 7th round pick. But, if you can have faith in your first day picks, then your in trouble (see: Detroit Lions).

 

By your logic, we should also be drafting DB on the first day because we just don't know if McKelvin pan out.

 

No, not really. I am not saying we need to draft another receiver because we don't know about Hardy. You said that we can ignore filling the TE position because Hardy would be more of a factor next year. That is way different. Your way, you are leaving a bad hole on our team's offense (TE) in hopes that another position player will pick up the slack. If that other position can't pick up the slack, now you've got 2 positions that are bad. Bottom line: we need a TE, badly.

[ans4e64]

I didnt mean keep them because of the big salaries...I am who dosent give a crap about how much players make...I was refering to the fact that the Bills FO must see them as being here for a while, so hence the huge contracts..does this mean they wont dump them tomarrow..nope..but to me it shows it's a spot they must not be to worried about.

 

 

ok maybe a bad choice of words, but have you seen him play somewhere to say hes not?

 

No, and that's the point.

 

dont own a xbox 360 sorry...but yes in a way...IMO, teams are more hesitant to sit a 40 million dollar player over a 1 million dollar player, unless that 1 million dollar player plays extremely well, then he becomes a 40 million dollar player

 

I give up. You win.

[Tsaikotic]

well the Bills have McCargo back and only 1 4th round pick so I guess this thread is pointless now..lol

[d_wag]

big DT - the 6'4/6'5 300+ type, no fattys

TE - as always - an athletic pass catcher would be nice

big LB - after Poz and Mitchell, all our lbers are tiny

Center - I'd rather pick up a veteran FA as well then rely on a rookie to start right away.

 

paging jason brown - he'd be a hell of a pickup and would free up an early draft pick for another area of need

[Nightcrawler]

OK, here's what I think : We officially have known for over a week that Edwards' brains were scrambled - give it a rest ! You are now about the 90th poster who told us what we already know with this lame comment.

 

Enough. Give it a rest.

 

Also, to you and all posters: it is a receiving/linebacking CORPS, not "corp"

 

Hey Mel Kiper, How do you know Hardy will not turn into a true #2? He is 5 games into his first season....give him a chance

 

BuffaninATL,

 

I apologize that my thoughts didn't meet your specifications and/or your grammatical standards/evaluations. I will be sure to tread more carefully in the future. After all, I was only interested in creating a lively discussion. So, I will just resist the thought of telling you that in your response you had several comma splices and multiple misuses of both the colon and the use of the period.

 

Why do I think Hardy will be a bust? Sometimes...it is just fun to speculate. After all, this is what Mel Kiper does, so I thank you for the comparison. Please allow me to share my last Mel Kiper "prediction", BuffaninATL. You are probably as arrogant as you sound in your response. Additionally, your goal on this site is to give worthless responses rather than contribute to a discussion. You are a pessimist by nature. Lastly, it is probably a fair assumption you live in Atlanta.

 

Do me a favor and the rest of us on a post. Give a real thought or go play with your "Magic The Gathering" cards.

 

All the best,

 

Nightcrawler