Rb Michael Turner

[Mile High]

NFL GRAPEVINE PRICE FOR TURNER: In talking to some people around the league I'm hearing that Chargers RFA RB Michael Turner could be had for a high second round pick. That obviously limits the number of teams that could make a play for Turner to those at or near the top of the second round this year, if that is the true asking price. I suppose if a team that wasn't at the top of the second round was desperate enough they could offer a first.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if teams that are interested try to wait it out though. San Diego GM A.J. Smith would obviously love to get value this year for a player that will likely be out the door for nothing next year. The longer he waits the less he will likely get in return for Turner. Of course if just one team can't land the RB they want in the draft he could get lucky and name his price.

 

While some teams might like the talent that Turner brings, there is the other deterrent of signing him to a lucrative long term deal.

 

I don't know if I'd give up a first for him, but I'd have to strongly consider giving up a 2nd if that's indeed all it would take. Again it's just rumblings I'm hearing. Nothing definitive.

 

We'll have to see if Turner talk heats up around the league. Stay tuned.

 

You think the closer we get to the draft the asking price for Turner may drop? Would you give up the Bills second round pick for the guy? Interesting.....

 

Edit: And if Chris Brown is "hearing" this it might mean that the Bills are looking at Turner as an option. Right?

[GoBills2279]

You think the closer we get to the draft the asking price for Turner may drop? Would you give up the Bills second round pick for the guy? Interesting.....

 

Edit: And if Chris Brown is "hearing" this it might mean that the Bills are looking at Turner as an option. Right?

 

I wouldn't give up the second for him considering Bush should be available in the second and I think I'd take him over Turner. Even though I still feel that neither is the answer right now.

[DrDawkinstein]

id rather go Hunt/Irons/Pittman over trading away our 2nd for Turner.

[Brandon]

Even though I think this 2nd tier of RBs is quite weak, for the price tag of a 2nd, I would not be interested in Turner. I don't like trading premium picks for backups.

 

For a 2nd day pick, I think it might be a good deal.

[Tipster19]

I'd seriously consider one of our 3rd rders for Turner. This would still give us three first day picks, two being somewhat early 1st and 2nd rder. We could draft some big time players with these picks while we solidify our RB situation with a 3rd rder.

[ROCCEO]

id rather go Hunt/Irons/Pittman over trading away our 2nd for Turner.

Congratulations, you've been found guilty of buying into the hype.

 

A 2nd for turner woudl be a fair deal, a third would be a great deal for us. Each of those 3 backs you mentioned is COMPLETELY unproven at the NFL level. Turner has proven what he can do in limited duty. Hes about 6' tall and listed at 237. That would give him tony hunt size, but hes got irons' skills.

 

Plus, its better that hes a backup. THe idea is to pick up a RB with minimal mileage on him. Turner certainly hasnt been overworked. Will he respond well to being, 'the guy'? Cant say for sure, could be the next LaMont Jordan, but I think its doubtfull.

 

Since he is a RFA Id bet he wouldnt want anything more than the standard feature back price of about 23 mill for 5 years that ahman green got. I think hes worth it, hes definately better than green at this juncture.

 

Positives: Proven commodity without sacrificing a first round pick.

 

Negatives: Allows us less mobility in the draft.

 

That being said, a draft day trade would be the preferable way to pull this off.

[John from Riverside]

I would offer one of our thirds.....

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

NO WAY! Because he's only proven to be an unproven backup. He hardly plays.

[Acantha]

NO WAY! Because he's only proven to be an unproven backup. He hardly plays.

I don't suppose that would have anything to do with having the best player in the league in front of him?

 

At this point, Michael Turner has proven FAR more than any RB available in the second round.

 

Honestly, I don't care either way.

[Tipster19]

I'll tell you what I would love to see. Come draft day we make a deal for Turner with one of our 3rd rders when it's time for us to pick and then we dupe Green Bay into swapping our 1st rd picks and gather more first day picks and just load up on some serious defensive players. Yeah Baby!

[Koufax]

I've been saying this for a while. The 1st and 3rd stuff has nothing to do with getting Turner. Offering the Chargers more than one year of a backup RB is worth is enough. While he is a good insurance policy for an LT injury, that's all he is to the Chargers and that probably isn't worth more to tham than the #44 pick. I follow the San Diego media here pretty closely, and he doesn't have the reputation here that he has elsewhere.

 

I would absolutely offer our higher third for him without even thinking twice, and make it clear that offer is on the table. Giving up our 2nd is trickier. You really have to think he is going to be better than the other players we would get in the 2nd for one big reason: contract. Obviously we aren't trading for a one year rental, so we would need to pay him a lot more than our #2 pick to keep him around for the five years our #2 pick would be in town. So his play has to be expected to be enough better than the players available at #44 to offset his significantly higher cost over the same years.

 

I think our football team needs to keep 2008 in mind with all of our moves. I don't say this as a pessimist, and I expect great things of 2007, but the Willis deal helped us get better 2008 and beyond. Giving up our 2nd rounder for Turner is a big commitment, and signing a long term deal before he has played as a starter is very risky.

 

So a third in a heart beat, which would make us better by also allowing us to spend our second rounder on D. But the second rounder could be a little steep and needs to be weighed more carefully between contract and talent evaluation.

[WR25]

I would take Turner over Bush, Irons, and Pittman in a second. Turner, IMO, is the next Larry Johnson. The flashes that he shows when he is given the chance to play are enough to get me excited. Look at his stats in his 3 years in San Diego, 157 carries, 941 yards, 6.0 yards per carry, 5 tds. Do the math, the guy could be a huge pick up if he is given half a chance. Yes, I realize that it's not a sure thing, and I know he hasn't carried the ball more than 80 times in a season, but you're taking a chance no matter what you do, so why not him? How is everyone so sure that any of these other backs are going to be any good? No one knows. I have a gut feeling that Turner, no matter where he ends up, is going to be a star once he gets his chane to play.

[ROCCEO]

I agree that he is good, maybe even special. The next larry johnson I am not so sure of. I bet hes a lot more pleasant to have in the locker room than LJ.

[ndirish1978]

You don't average over 4 yards in the NFL without being a good back. I wish we could get him for a 3rd, that would be perfect.

[Tipster19]

Tell AJ this, he can have what we got for McGahee this year and that's the second 3rd rder and the 7th rder. That's it, case closed. That would be like trading McGahee for Turner and Baltimore's 2008 3rd rder. If that was laid out on the table before we traded McGoofey, we would have jumped all over it.

[ROCCEO]

Tell AJ this, he can have what we got for McGahee this year and that's the second 3rd rder and the 7th rder. That's it, case closed. That would be like trading McGahee for Turner and Baltimore's 2008 3rd rder. If that was laid out on the table before we traded McGoofey, we would have jumped all over it.

If that trade occurs I better have a clean pair of pants around when word gets to me.

[Tipster19]

Rocceo, you kill me! That would be a sweet trade though. C'mon Marv, GIT ER DONE!

[Acantha]

I would start off offering a 3rd, if they don't bite, offer both of Baltimore's thirds.

[Koufax]

I don't think that a 3rd will get it done. San Diego doesn't have enough holes to fill to need extra picks just for the sake of extra picks. But I would definitely put AJ on speed dial and push that hard. I would definitely rather have Turner than most of the 2nd round running backs, with the caveat being the contact issue I mentioned. If we give up a 2nd to get him, we have to also know we will keep him without breaking the bank. When do you sign that long term extension? Before he has ever started a game? Halfway through the season, hoping he doesn't want to test free agency after all? After the season when he might start to cost open market prices (and we could have waited to sign him anyway, so gave up a 2nd for a one year rental and an inside track on a free agent)?

 

Just as a player I would rather have him than the backs we are considering taking with our #44 pick, but the contact issue makes it trickier.

 

That said, all things considered I would try to push for this deal and see what might happen. Maybe bring the idea of a swap of seconds into play? That worked for the Jets. Swap of seconds and a lower pick? Get somebody on it Marv, and don't stop trying to find a good deal for us until draft day.

[daquix]

Maybe im missing something.

 

502 yards, 6.3 avg, 2 TD's, 7 twenty+ yard runs, and 24 first downs ... as a backup. He had over 500 yards, and 24 first downs, as a backup - aka receiving minimal carries.

 

As I said. Maybe im missing something.

[Tipster19]

Give them the second 3rd rder and package it with Spikes.

[Acantha]

Maybe im missing something.

 

502 yards, 6.3 avg, 2 TD's, 7 twenty+ yard runs, and 24 first downs ... as a backup. He had over 500 yards, and 24 first downs, as a backup - aka receiving minimal carries.

 

As I said. Maybe im missing something.

This may be over analyzing, but one thought I always have about Turner is that he is also getting those numbers against defenses that have been preparing all week to do nothing but stop the run. Defensive game plans are created to stop Tomlinson, and while a different running style may help him in that respect, I still think it's impressive.

 

Like I said, I don't really have a huge desire to get Turner, but I wouldn't be upset at all if we gave up a second rounder to get him.

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't suppose that would have anything to do with having the best player in the league in front of him?

 

At this point, Michael Turner has proven FAR more than any RB available in the second round.

 

Honestly, I don't care either way.

 

That's right there hits the nail on the head.

 

Some nerdy stats http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/RB...amp;_1:col_1=11

Turner placed 7th in runs over 20+ yards. Difference is he had 80 carries and the next fewest of the guys above him was 240.

 

You don't accomplish that without some talent. I truly believe Turner is everything we wanted Willis to be. He's bigger and more explosive. He played at a cold weather school. Add to the fact, he will only be 25 years old, has taken little abuse, and unlike a rookie coming into the league, has proven himself on a NFL level.

 

If the Chargers do it for a third, run quickly. Personally, I would do it for the 2nd but I believe than could be lowered. Please consider me the President of the Turner the Burner fanclub. The thought of this guy and Thomas as a 1-2 combo running to our leftside has me watering at the mouth. Please Marv.

 

P.S. It's funny that some "experts" told me Henry wasn't explosive yet he ranks in the top 5. Weird.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

You don't average over 4 yards in the NFL without being a good back. I wish we could get him for a 3rd, that would be perfect.

 

Plenty of backup rbs do such as but not limited to and currently excluding turner

 

Kevan Barlow- (split carries with garrison hearst looked like he had very good potential average a real good 5.1ypc in 2003 and went on to average 3.4, 3.3, and 2.8 the following 3 seasons

 

Troy Hambrick- After averaging 4.7, 5.1,4.0 backing up the aging emmitt smith finaly got his chance to prove himself and flunked out hasn't played a down since 2004

 

Lamont Jordan- Receiving limited but more opportunities then everyones current favorite backup Michael turner. Backing up curtis martin Lamont Jordan had the look of a starting back and some production for a team to warrant the chance. Showed potential as a legit receiving threat and having the speed and power to make a starting caliber back. Has been a bit of a dissapointment with the raiders. I dont watch much raider games but I know he had ball security issues in the past. I really dont see him as anything special.

 

 

My whole thing about turner is yeah he has some nice speed and runs with good power, however he's also backing up the best rb currently in the game. When LT comes out of games teams aren't focusing on Michael Turner. He also doesn't have the production that warrants giving a high 2nd rd pick to a afc superbowl contender. For a 4th rd pick sure. Anything more then that and I'll pass.

[Koufax]

This may be over analyzing, but one thought I always have about Turner is that he is also getting those numbers against defenses that have been preparing all week to do nothing but stop the run. Defensive game plans are created to stop Tomlinson, and while a different running style may help him in that respect, I still think it's impressive.

 

Like I said, I don't really have a huge desire to get Turner, but I wouldn't be upset at all if we gave up a second rounder to get him.

 

On the flip side (being in San Diego and getting all the Chargers games), he often plays when defenses are beat up and demotivated from chasing LT all day and having the game out of reach. I still like him a lot, and would consider the 2nd carefully and in the end probably make that offer.

[Tipster19]

Look, if we able to get Turner, then I'll be the first to grow that stupid little 4" goutee that he wears.

[Acantha]

On the flip side (being in San Diego and getting all the Chargers games), he often plays when defenses are beat up and demotivated from chasing LT all day and having the game out of reach.

 

Good point.

[Brandon]

Maybe im missing something.

 

502 yards, 6.3 avg, 2 TD's, 7 twenty+ yard runs, and 24 first downs ... as a backup. He had over 500 yards, and 24 first downs, as a backup - aka receiving minimal carries.

 

As I said. Maybe im missing something.

 

Kenneth Davis had over 600 yards rushing for the Bills in 1991 and 1992. Darrick Holmes had nearly 700 yards and was closing in on 1000 yards rushing and receiving combined as a rookie in 1995. The point is that it helps when an excellent starting RB and a good OL have already beaten the crap out of the opposing defense before you come into the game.

 

Turner could be a quality starter who just needs a chance, but he could also be like any number of backups who are largely the beneficiaries of someone else's success.

[Mile High]

Look, if we able to get Turner, then I'll be the first to grow that stupid little 4" goutee that he wears.

Marv will be the first one to lobby that he gets it removed .

 

Just for kicks I remembered that his combine hurt him a little in the draft. And the only time I can ever remember the kid getting caught from behind was Pac "Misdemeanor" Jones so I did some research.

 

4.42 in the 40

400-pound bench

385-pound squat

225 pounds 20 times (bench)

31½-inch vertical jump

 

They used to call the Turner "The Burner". And behind the new and improved oline he'd probably get to the second level quite a bit.

[jri111]

Plenty of backup rbs do such as but not limited to and currently excluding turner

 

Kevan Barlow- (split carries with garrison hearst looked like he had very good potential average a real good 5.1ypc in 2003 and went on to average 3.4, 3.3, and 2.8 the following 3 seasons

 

Troy Hambrick- After averaging 4.7, 5.1,4.0 backing up the aging emmitt smith finaly got his chance to prove himself and flunked out hasn't played a down since 2004

 

Lamont Jordan- Receiving limited but more opportunities then everyones current favorite backup Michael turner. Backing up curtis martin Lamont Jordan had the look of a starting back and some production for a team to warrant the chance. Showed potential as a legit receiving threat and having the speed and power to make a starting caliber back. Has been a bit of a dissapointment with the raiders. I dont watch much raider games but I know he had ball security issues in the past. I really dont see him as anything special.

My whole thing about turner is yeah he has some nice speed and runs with good power, however he's also backing up the best rb currently in the game. When LT comes out of games teams aren't focusing on Michael Turner. He also doesn't have the production that warrants giving a high 2nd rd pick to a afc superbowl contender. For a 4th rd pick sure. Anything more then that and I'll pass.

 

 

 

good research. I completely agree with the back-up analysis. I would take him for a third though, I think that would be a steal if he turns out. If, not, well we still have three first day picks and a great back up RB/or 1a for years to come. Of course, that's where the contract issue gets tricky.

[C.Biscuit97]

Plenty of backup rbs do such as but not limited to and currently excluding turner

 

Kevan Barlow- (split carries with garrison hearst looked like he had very good potential average a real good 5.1ypc in 2003 and went on to average 3.4, 3.3, and 2.8 the following 3 seasons

 

Troy Hambrick- After averaging 4.7, 5.1,4.0 backing up the aging emmitt smith finaly got his chance to prove himself and flunked out hasn't played a down since 2004

 

Lamont Jordan- Receiving limited but more opportunities then everyones current favorite backup Michael turner. Backing up curtis martin Lamont Jordan had the look of a starting back and some production for a team to warrant the chance. Showed potential as a legit receiving threat and having the speed and power to make a starting caliber back. Has been a bit of a dissapointment with the raiders. I dont watch much raider games but I know he had ball security issues in the past. I really dont see him as anything special.

My whole thing about turner is yeah he has some nice speed and runs with good power, however he's also backing up the best rb currently in the game. When LT comes out of games teams aren't focusing on Michael Turner. He also doesn't have the production that warrants giving a high 2nd rd pick to a afc superbowl contender. For a 4th rd pick sure. Anything more then that and I'll pass.

 

Very solid argument. Please allow me to counter.

 

Barlow was very solid for a while. However looking at his current stats, he has 13 career fumbles (including 5 in 2003 his best season). Turner has one.

 

Hambrick played behind great but aging olines in Dallas. Their line got old quickly.

 

I never got why everyone thinks Jordan was so terrible. In his first year with the Raiders, he rushed for over a 1,000 yards, caught 70 passes, and had 11 tds. I'd take that anyday. Please as proven by this year, the Raiders o-line is terrible. That said, Jordan was never a homerun threat.

 

Additionally of the backs you listed, they're all fairly large rbs. Barlow is listed at 234, Hambrick at 235, and Jordan at 230. Turner is 237 on a 5'10 frame (taller backs tend to get injuried more). I think it is also important to noted that Turner has average 6.0 ypc. Not for a season but his career. I get the LT factor but besides Gates, who else on their offense do you fear? You don't think d-coordinators wouldn't pay attention to a back averaging 6 for his career?

 

And while these are good examples, it shouldn't impact the future. If you are considering a back in the 2nd or 3rd, if the Bills think Turner is better than a rookie, why not take him? I notice that you have AP in your avatar. Great player but has had some serious injury problems. Is he really that much more of a better back with the 12th overall pick (or higher) than Turner (probably with less wear and tear) for a 2nd or possibly 3rd? Personally, I think not but that's Marvelous Marv's decision.

[Acantha]

And people say there's no good discussions on the Wall anymore.

[Mile High]

And people say there's no good discussions on the Wall anymore.

The HS kids are in bed. Shhh.

[jri111]

I have nothing againt Turner and I think he could be a good/great back in teh NFL but some observations/concerns I have:

 

 

1. People keep saying he had TONS more experience as any of the second round draft RB's. Although it's true that he's played in the NFL, the fact is, we don't know whether he can be a good starting running back in this league anymore then we know if Tony Hunt (or irons, pittman, *insert name here, etc...) would be. Yes, his numbers are good, but as pointed out in many other posts, that could be attributed to any number of things (Playing behind LT, Defenses not focusing on him, playing in such a good offense, etc...). Of course it could be him, the simple fact is, we just don't know. IMO the unknown factor is just as high for him as anyone you pick in the draft.

 

2. Although it's true he doesn't have the wear-n-tear as a starting RB who is 25, he's still 25. The human body starts to break down eventually, even if you're in excellent shape. Most of these guys in the draft are 21 or 22 years old. That's at least three years of youth you'd be giving up. Granted Turner hasn't been worn out, but like I said, no matter who you are, but especially for NFL RBs, you eventually start to break down. It's a trade off i guess....

 

3. Ideally, I think the way to get the best value for Turner is during the draft. This creates a problem though, since he needs a new contract. If you trade for him before the draft, what happens if Petterson falls in your lap and you just gave turner big $$. You can do one of three things... 1. take you defensive guy you want and just ignore that hes there. 2. try to find a trading partner that really wants him (GB? Tennessee?) and trade down -however, if Petterson is still there at 12, that means Lynch is too, so GB really wouldn't have too much incentive to trade up, MAYBE the titans though. or 3. Take Petterson and shop either him or Turner to another team in need. Any of them could work i guess... Ideally you'd like to see what happends in round one and then pull the trigger with a trade, but again the contract issue kindof makes that unlikly.

 

4. Lastly, it may be better to take the "wait-and-see" approach. Wait until after the draft and see what happens during the it (i.e. if Petterson fell to you, or if all the good RB's were gone and you had to settle for someone that wasn't your first choice, etc...). If Turner isn't traded by then this could be adventageous for a couple of reasons. First, there aren't too many teams that are in need of starting RBs (Top three: Cleveland, Buffalo, GB) and a handful of others who will probably target the second-tier backs for needed depth/youth. Two teams looking for starters will be eliminated for sure (petterson and lynch) which ultimately means SD won't have as many options if they haven't moved turner by then. Second, this also means that AJ's asking price will come down. He's not going to give him away, but maybe he'll start considering something lower then a two (like a 3rd and 7th?). Third, you don't waste a draft pick this year and can use your full aresnal to fill the needs on your team (and with the Mcgahee trade we have an extra third next year, so who would be upset if we used that pick with another to get a potential star RB?)

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Very solid argument. Please allow me to counter.quote]

 

 

Of the backs I listed Barlow was indeed solid for awhile. He was pretty good splitting carries with hearst. The feature back thing didn't really work out for him and he has regressed ever since.

 

As for Hambrick. No the oline wasn't good. They were a rather poor bunch runblocking and pass blocking, and made the post season strictly on the strength of their defense. However using Hambrick and getting rushing yards from several other rb's achieved a 12th overall rank in rushing offense in 2003. 4th in attempts. So while the run blocking was poor the effort was there. To be a good rb though you have to have balance and vision. Hambrick had neither and in 2004 once again ended up backing up emmitt smith in arizona.

 

I dont really think Lamont Jordan is terrible. I think he's a decent rb who if he's splitting carries with someone can be very effective in a dual rb role. Hes not a guy I like seeing touch the ball 25 times a game. He was underused with the jets but over his head as a 1a type back.

 

Jordan and Turner are basicaly listed at the same size. Jordan at 5'10 230. Turner at 5'10 237. Turner does have better speed however take into considerination the production of the backs prior to jordan becoming a starter. His stats were better then Turners. Jordan had 1,277 yards on 262 carries a 4.9ypc average 11 tds(10 rush 1 rec. Not to mention and additional 417 yards on receiving yards. Compensation for production. Nothing in return for the jets.

 

While overall Turner has done a pretty good job in spelling LT. He has not had any significant carries. He has very good speed and initital quickness to get to the 2nd level and be a big play threat. However he's shown zero ability to be a reliable receiving option. While Defensive coordinators are probably fully aware of what Turner has done as a backup. I doubt a lot of emphasis is put into stoping him during game plans. As For who is there to fear besides LT and Gates.

 

Phillip Rivers may be a rookie, but play extrodinary football. While not having the best stable of receivers, at times Parker and Vincent Jackson were relibale options. Back to turner. The overall average is nice but you're taking a very limited number of carries and using it as proof. I'm just skeptical if that warrants much compensation if any in return.

 

 

As for why the bills shouldn't offer a 2nd rd pick. Well for one I dont believe in throwing away high draft picks for potential players on other teams. Turner may very turn out to be a very good rb, but I'd rather have the unknown prospect with potential then give draft picks to a in confrence superbowl contender. As for Adrian Peterson in my avatar I know it's a pipe dream, but I really think he's far and away the best rb in the draft, so up until draft day I'll continue to dream that dream.

[OnTheRocks]

if i managed the Bills and had a chance to get Turner for the #44 pick (Bills 2nd), i would pull that trigger.

i have talked to enough Charger fans that have seen him play every week to believe he is "all that".

[Chilly]

The HS kids are in bed. Shhh.

 

UR MOMS IN BED, MY BED LOL

 

[Pete]

I would love to get Turner for our second round pick! Proven NFL player versus speculation. Turner is better then Anthony or Willis

[2003]

You think the closer we get to the draft the asking price for Turner may drop? Would you give up the Bills second round pick for the guy? Interesting.....

 

Edit: And if Chris Brown is "hearing" this it might mean that the Bills are looking at Turner as an option. Right?

I'd take him for a second any day of the week!

This would be a great draft!

[marauderswr80]

id never give a first for Turner. However, its appealing to give a 2nd rounder for him.