Dibs Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hey I agree Harrington is not a good QB but he played well enough to beat the Bears. How did JP do in that game? 831407[/snapback] He didn't play in that game....he plays for us, not the Dolphins. I took umbrage to you stating that Harrington has done better for the Dolphins this year than JP has done for us. He clearly hasn't & in that win(the only win he has) against the Bears....his stats were 32-16-137yards 50% completions.....4.3 YPA....3 TDs....2 INTs.....QBR 66.8 His 3 TDs came from drives of......3 plays, 6 yards.....3 plays, 12 yards.....& 1 play 24 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 He didn't play in that game....he plays for us, not the Dolphins. I took umbrage to you stating that Harrington has done better for the Dolphins this year than JP has done for us. He clearly hasn't & in that win(the only win he has) against the Bears....his stats were 32-16-137yards 50% completions.....4.3 YPA....3 TDs....2 INTs.....QBR 66.8 His 3 TDs came from drives of......3 plays, 6 yards.....3 plays, 12 yards.....& 1 play 24 yards. 831413[/snapback] The Dolphins won despite every effort by Harrington to lose the game. It was the same way in the Bears route of Detroit last year in Chicago. JP Losman looked like Kenny Stabler against the Bears compared to Harrington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Dude, watch the NFL.com highlights of the Jacksonville game. I was SHOCKED by the amount of time Garrard was getting. He could have taken a five minute nap on some of those plays and not been touched. 831412[/snapback] Tennessee's defense sucks, so does Jacksonville's OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I originally thought the Bills would have one of the better WR corps in the NFL, but right now they're pretty close to the worst. Evans is a fine player, but isn't yet a true #1. Price has been demoted as a starter, with Parrish taking his place. Reed is injured and while steady, hasn't been a game-breaker. And Davis has done nothing. Add in TE's who scare no one and a lousy O-line, and blaming it all on the QB is simple thinking. I can't really think of too many other teams with a worse group. 831357[/snapback] Compare this year's supporting cast to last year's. The Bills have improved on the OL and at TE. The WR situation is a little worse because of the loss of Moulds. Overall, though, this year's supporting cast, and this year's playcalling, are better than last year's. With last year's playcalling, and last year's supporting cast, Kelly Holcomb was able to achieve some pretty good things. Yet nobody wanted Holcomb as a starter. If Losman this year can't do better than Holcomb last year, why would anyone want Losman as their starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Tennessee's defense sucks, so does Jacksonville's OL. 831416[/snapback] could be. I wish our line gave Losman that amount of time against bad defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 exactly, if past performance were the only measure we should be begging kelly, marino and elway to come out of retirement! I think the point is to get a QB who you will have in at least 3 years time, not some old guy who even if he will improve you today, will leave you no better off tomorrow. 831342[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Compare this year's supporting cast to last year's. The Bills have improved on the OL and at TE. The WR situation is a little worse because of the loss of Moulds. Overall, though, this year's supporting cast, and this year's playcalling, are better than last year's. With last year's playcalling, and last year's supporting cast, Kelly Holcomb was able to achieve some pretty good things. Yet nobody wanted Holcomb as a starter. If Losman this year can't do better than Holcomb last year, why would anyone want Losman as their starter? 831422[/snapback] Because Holcombe is a vet nearing the end of his career with no realistic upside....basically what you see is at best what you'll get.....& you won't be getting it for too many more years. JP showed enough in a small school to be drafted in the 1st round. Coming out of college it was the general view that he was 'raw' & would probably need additional development time than normal(whatever that is). On top of that, he has seen multiple regime changes, was injured his entire first season so therefore that extra development time has been further hindered. But you knew all that didn't you HA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Because Holcombe is a vet nearing the end of his career with no realistic upside....basically what you see is at best what you'll get.....& you won't be getting it for too many more years. JP showed enough in a small school to be drafted in the 1st round. Coming out of college it was the general view that he was 'raw' & would probably need additional development time than normal(whatever that is). On top of that, he has seen multiple regime changes, was injured his entire first season so therefore that extra development time has been further hindered. But you knew all that didn't you HA. 831442[/snapback] The word "raw" makes me very nervous. Ryan Leaf was "raw," and needed time. Peyton Manning was "polished" and was presented as someone who could make more of an immediate imact. "Raw" means "has not yet demonstrated the ability to be a consistent pocket passer in a complex offense." Maybe the reason that ability hasn't been consistently demonstrated is because it just isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 The word "raw" makes me very nervous. Ryan Leaf was "raw," and needed time. Peyton Manning was "polished" and was presented as someone who could make more of an immediate imact. "Raw" means "has not yet demonstrated the ability to be a consistent pocket passer in a complex offense." Maybe the reason that ability hasn't been consistently demonstrated is because it just isn't there. 831453[/snapback] True....or maybe it needs time to develop. In any case, that is the reason why somebody would want JP as their starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Good post! JP is WAY better than average, and has a legit shot at being the best qb of all time. We are 3-5? There are 8 Defensive Coordinators around the league unable to sleep. They are shivering in the cold dark night at the thought of having to go up against JP Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 he has more yards and td's than the league average and his QB rankin is right on top of the average. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781 going through the list of teams would i trade him for their starter finds a majority of cases i wouldn't, indicating again he's better than average: trade or no trade: pats - yes jets - yes fins - no steelers - yes colts - yes browns - no bengals - yes jags - no titans - yes chargers - yes broncos - no raiders - no chiefs - no lions - no packers - no bears - no vikings - no rams - yes seahawks - yes 9ers - no giants - yes redskins - no saints - yes panthers - no cowboys - no falcons - yes bucs - no cards - no eagles - yes ravens - no texans - no 831312[/snapback] You wouldn't trade for Green, Grossman, Delhomme or Plummer? Or did you just need to put a bunch of no's to make your point. I don't know what you consider "average". Loseman is the: 24th rated passer according to NFL.com. 30th in yards per game. 22 in completion percentage. That includes all the 3yrd passes on 3rd & long. He also is responsible for 73% of the Bills turnovers. If that's average? I hope you don't consider your girl average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hey I agree Harrington is not a good QB but he played well enough to beat the Bears. How did JP do in that game? He also played the Pats tough and has played okay of late. I would NOT want him as my QB. I'm just making the point JP has not played well the past few weeks compared to other QBs. He's a professional QB and completed just 8 passes! 8 passes last week. In terms of him being 8th in the AFC. I would bet NO GM in the AFC would take him ahead of who their QB is at this point. Any commentator on the NFL will tell you he has looked dreadful---he just has. You can't argue JP has played well the past 4 weeks. He is arguably the worst QB in the NFL the past 4 weeks. The good thing is, he can improve and hopefully he does. At least it is tough to get worse. 831407[/snapback] ok harrington did nothing in that game. grossman did a whole lot to losen that game for the bears. The wole bears team laid an egg, harrington did nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I said this in another thread earlier in the week,, Look, JP is arguably one of the 5 worst QB's in the league if you actually watch the games and not rely on stats. I'll give him the nod over Alex Smith (SF), Andrew Walter (Oak) and Vince Young (Ten). Leinart gets an incomplete since he hasn't played enough and Gradkowski gets the nod over JP because he has 6 TD's to only 1 INT. The ESPN heads were discussing QB's yesterday. This is a QB driven league. That's why NE can change parts and still be good. That's why the Colts got rid of Edge and didn't miss a beat. All the good teams are getting competent play at QB at least 2 out of every 3 games. When the Bears get a bad game out of Grossman they lose (except for Arizona which blundered it away). The thing bothering me about JP outside of his zero pocket presence and inability to read defense,,,,is that his accuracy is looking shaky. He's bouncing balls at guys' feet and over/underthrowing. The two deep ball to Evans were way underthrown,,,,he was fortunate to hit on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 JP will develop into a fine, solid QB in a year or two - just around the time this whole team begins to 'gel' and begin another era of league domination! Then all the JP-bashers and naysayers will look back on this year, and feel shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 JP will develop into a fine, solid QB in a year or two - just around the time this whole team begins to 'gel' and begin another era of league domination! Then all the JP-bashers and naysayers will look back on this year, and feel shame. 831545[/snapback] and jump back on the bandwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 JP will develop into a fine, solid QB in a year or two - just around the time this whole team begins to 'gel' and begin another era of league domination! Then all the JP-bashers and naysayers will look back on this year, and feel shame. 831545[/snapback] Or? He'll be out of football completely and be looked upon in the same light as Todd Collins and Rob Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 [DeLuca][JDG]I'd take all of them, plus someone's 90-year-old grandmother with Alzheimers and gangrene in every limb in her decrepit body, over that useless, worthless piece of crap we have now. I've seen enough. He's had three years. Who wants to quarterback this team? Anyone? Cuz anyone is better than the rat turd we have now. Just fix the quarterback and all will be well. JP Losman is arguably the worst starting QB in the history of the NFL, ever.[/JDG][/DeLuca] 831333[/snapback] Fixed your hypertext markup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1011 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think the point is to get a QB who you will have in at least 3 years time, not some old guy who even if he will improve you today, will leave you no better off tomorrow. 831342[/snapback] In 04 I wanted to grab Brunell. I would take Brunell with the 3 picks I lost for grabbing JP. With those 3 picks I could have: By virtue of the 2nd round of 2004 Bob Sanders from Indy or Jake Grove. 5th round in 2004 I would gave grabbed Jeb Terry for depth at guard. With the 1st rounder I could have had either (from 2005, and I believe in strengthening the lines above all else): Mike Patterson, Luis Castillo, or Heath Miller. I believe in trying to groom a 3rd to 6th round QB and draft almost 1 a year and stick them on the PT, allocate them to NFLE, but groom one for a while rather than wasting big money, time, and wins on a 1st rounder. If you want solid fill in that will be good, let him come in FA such as a Brees (he was a 2nd rounder), or someone whose career wasn't great as a 1st rounder who will be cheap. They are all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I happen to think there's plenty of middle ground between "blaming it all on the QB", and the retarded notion that WR on this team is a bigger weakness than QB. You're arguing semantics. They're a combined problem. The WR's aren't getting open (quickly) and that's a problem. JP is being told to stay in the pocket. His O-line sucks. Frankly QB is LESS of a problem when compared to the offense as a whole. I mean the TE's are being kept-in to block, leaving one less target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 jags - nobroncos - no bears - no 9ers - no cowboys - no cards - no texans - no 831312[/snapback] i'd rather have Garrard than Losman the snake's still got a couple good years left in him and his bad years are still better than JPs best Alex Smith IMO will develop into a better QB than JP So will Romo And Leinhart too David Carr is the modern Archie Manning. His team stinks but he is still a fine QB I found it odd you wouldn't trade JP for Grossman. Care to explain why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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