Mikie2times Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 JP's turnovers lost us this game. What really makes it look worse is that one of them was returned for a touchdown. This loss hurts, but I'm trying to find positives, and if you can look past the turnovers JP was able to accomplish alot today. Over 300 yards passing, over 8.5 per attempt on 38 throws, and two TD's accounted for. This was the first game in which his performance threw the entire game was great enough to win a game for this team. The turnovers neutralized that, but maybe next time that doesn't happen. The reality is this is rebuilding year, and nothing, including this Jets game, means more to the long term future of Buffalo then JP showing he can win games with his arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 JP's turnovers lost us this game. What really makes it look worse is that one of them was returned for a touchdown. This loss hurts, but I'm trying to find positives, and if you can look past the turnovers JP was able to accomplish alot today. Over 300 yards passing, over 8.5 per attempt on 38 throws, and two TD's accounted for. This was the first game in which his performance threw the entire game was great enough to win a game for this team. The turnovers neutralized that, but maybe next time that doesn't happen. The reality is this is rebuilding year, and nothing, including this Jets game, means more to the long term future of Buffalo then JP showing he can win games with his arm. 784689[/snapback] But if we lose to some JP sucks if he doesn't play a perfect game so it's just another L! NO EXCUSES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeOiler Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 But if we lose to some JP sucks if he doesn't play a perfect game so it's just another L! NO EXCUSES! 784712[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 JP's turnovers lost us this game. What really makes it look worse is that one of them was returned for a touchdown. This loss hurts, but I'm trying to find positives, and if you can look past the turnovers JP was able to accomplish alot today. Over 300 yards passing, over 8.5 per attempt on 38 throws, and two TD's accounted for. This was the first game in which his performance threw the entire game was great enough to win a game for this team. The turnovers neutralized that, but maybe next time that doesn't happen. The reality is this is rebuilding year, and nothing, including this Jets game, means more to the long term future of Buffalo then JP showing he can win games with his arm. 784689[/snapback] I know! JP should have been able to block those 2 blitzers that blindsided him causing him to fumble! The INT was his fault, it was a poor decision and poor throw. To blame the fumbles on him is assinine and myopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I know! JP should have been able to block those 2 blitzers that blindsided him causing him to fumble! The INT was his fault, it was a poor decision and poor throw. To blame the fumbles on him is assinine and myopic. 784730[/snapback] You Losman nuthugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 JP had a good game, far better than I would have thought. The biggest problem is he can't be perfect and with this team and these fans, apparently he has to be perfect. Bad pocket presense, as asserted by some fans, implies that he had a pocket to work in. Bottom line with this game. When the Jets wanted it, their lines got it. Whether pressure on JP or the first down run, they got it. And conversely our lines couldn't do anything when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I know! JP should have been able to block those 2 blitzers that blindsided him causing him to fumble! The INT was his fault, it was a poor decision and poor throw. To blame the fumbles on him is assinine and myopic. 784730[/snapback] If that was Drew of Kelly back there you'd be whistling a different tune... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 If that was Drew of Kelly back there you'd be whistling a different tune... 784747[/snapback] No, i wouldnt have. You cant blame any QB for fumbling when he's blindsided less than 3 seconds after the snap. I already said the INT was a poor decision and throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Yeah, because everyone that's saying JP had an average game for an NFL quarterback is saying he has to be perfect. Some of you people amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Some of you people amaze me. 784754[/snapback] Believe me, many of us think the same of the drivel you type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Believe me, many of us think the same of the drivel you type. 784764[/snapback] Just imagine what would be said if it was Vince Young today instead of JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Plenty of bad things and plenty of good stuff from him First fumble his fault, that INT was his fault too. but the 2nd fumble was all on McGahee, failed to pick up a blitziing SAFETY, sheesh, and people wonder why he wasn't on the field last year on third downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Yeah, because everyone that's saying JP had an average game for an NFL quarterback is saying he has to be perfect. Some of you people amaze me. 784754[/snapback] No. Most negative posts I've seen say that he played soooo bad that he will never be good & he needs to be replaced. What this thread has said is that he actually showed some promise. Look around the league today. How many crappy QB performances were achieved & by pro bowl caliber players too. This week showed me that JP can put up the numbers(which we hadn't really seen before) but that he also has a lot more to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Believe me, many of us think the same of the drivel you type. 784764[/snapback] lawl, attack the poster and not the point, good job! Just imagine what would be said if it was Vince Young today instead of JP 784780[/snapback] lawl again. I'd say the same !@#$ing thing I've said all day about JP: It was encouraging, but by no means above average QB play out of him today. No. Most negative posts I've seen say that he played soooo bad that he will never be good & he needs to be replaced. What this thread has said is that he actually showed some promise. Look around the league today. How many crappy QB performances were achieved & by pro bowl caliber players too. This week showed me that JP can put up the numbers(which we hadn't really seen before) but that he also has a lot more to learn. 784837[/snapback] We must be reading different posts, must of the negative posts about JP today have been suggesting that he should take part of the blame for the loss, but he still is showing something he hasn't before today. Everytime someone says that JP needs work, someone responds with something saying that it was the rest of the team's fault. Well no sh--, there are almost always multiple reasons that a team loses, but you can't just say "Willis missed his block causing a turnover and thats why we lost." Anyone that has partially blamed JP today has made the accuisation that he has to be perfect to silence his critics, which is complete and utter bull sh--. The 2nd post in this thread is the following: But if we lose to some JP sucks if he doesn't play a perfect game so it's just another L! NO EXCUSES! The 3rd post is: I know! JP should have been able to block those 2 blitzers that blindsided him causing him to fumble! The INT was his fault, it was a poor decision and poor throw. To blame the fumbles on him is assinine and myopic. 6th post: JP had a good game, far better than I would have thought. The biggest problem is he can't be perfect and with this team and these fans, apparently he has to be perfect. In contrast, all the threads that I've clicked on that have been criticizing JP, have said that he's partially to blame for today. Whenever that happens, someone responds saying he must be perfect. While JP was very promising and had a better game, he is not without criticism. Neither is the rest of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 No, i wouldnt have. You cant blame any QB for fumbling when he's blindsided less than 3 seconds after the snap. I already said the INT was a poor decision and throw. 784753[/snapback] Even when he's blindsided, he's got to protect the ball. The fumbles are squarely on Losman, either way, and he needs to be coached to protect the ball better. That is, of course, in addition to fixing the bigger issue of piss-poor blocking. Was Mike Williams out there again today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Even when he's blindsided, he's got to protect the ball. The fumbles are squarely on Losman, either way, and he needs to be coached to protect the ball better. That is, of course, in addition to fixing the bigger issue of piss-poor blocking. Was Mike Williams out there again today? 784960[/snapback] Agreed. Even though he was hit from behind, he cannot cough up the ball twice like that. One time is excusable, twice is not. He just can't do it two times in one game and expect to win whether he was blindsided or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Yeah, because everyone that's saying JP had an average game for an NFL quarterback is saying he has to be perfect. 784754[/snapback] Yeah, there is middle ground between 'bad' and 'perfect'. But JP apologists pretend otherwise by using these tired straw-man comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Yeah, there is middle ground between 'bad' and 'perfect'. But JP apologists pretend otherwise by using these tired straw-man comments. 784972[/snapback] There is a clear possiblity that a player can have a crappy game, and even be responsible for the loss, and yet show clear signs that he is improving and "getting it". They are not mutually exclusive, nor do you have to be a JP apologist for saying that there were a lot of things to be happy about watching that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Agreed. Even though he was hit from behind, he cannot cough up the ball twice like that. One time is excusable, twice is not. He just can't do it two times in one game and expect to win whether he was blindsided or not. 784966[/snapback] If he wasn't in the middle of throwing the ball I'd agree with you. Being blindsided on the second one, in the middle of throwing the ball, is going to result in a fumble everytime. There's simply no avoiding it. On the first one he should have never cocked the ball back to throw it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 There is a clear possiblity that a player can have a crappy game, and even be responsible for the loss, and yet show clear signs that he is improving and "getting it". They are not mutually exclusive, nor do you have to be a JP apologist for saying that there were a lot of things to be happy about watching that game. 784979[/snapback] Fine, I can go along with that. Do you honestly think a non-negligable percentage of people on this board share this evaluation of him on this game though? I mostly see people berating our RB, coaches, the weather, and using Carson Palmer's poor 4 TD performance against the defending champs on the road to justify JP's poor play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 If he wasn't in the middle of throwing the ball I'd agree with you. Being blindsided on the second one, in the middle of throwing the ball, is going to result in a fumble everytime. There's simply no avoiding it. On the first one he should have never cocked the ball back to throw it in the first place. 784986[/snapback] That's kind of what I am saying. On either one, he was hit from behind, and you can make excuses for either of them. To me, however, you cannot make excuses for turning the ball over twice when hit from behind. It lost the game. He's got to not cough it up on one of them. One is excusable. two is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Fine, I can go along with that. Do you honestly think a non-negligable percentage of people on this board share this evaluation of him on this game though? I mostly see people berating our RB, coaches, the weather, and using Carson Palmer's poor 4 TD performance against the defending champs on the road to justify JP's poor play. 784995[/snapback] Not reasonable people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 That's kind of what I am saying. On either one, he was hit from behind, and you can make excuses for either of them. To me, however, you cannot make excuses for turning the ball over twice when hit from behind. It lost the game. He's got to not cough it up on one of them. One is excusable. two is not. 784997[/snapback] Well, on the first one JP saw the blitz, moved to his right to avoid it and then cocked his arm back when he knew there was a guy behind him. That's why I'd blame that one on JP. It's not really an issue of, "he can have one, but not two" it's a decision making issue on the first one while the second one can't be placed on his shoulder's at all Imo. The angriest I was all game was on that first fumble. It was just a horrible decision and one that a QB, no matter how young, should make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Even when he's blindsided, he's got to protect the ball. The fumbles are squarely on Losman, either way, and he needs to be coached to protect the ball better. That is, of course, in addition to fixing the bigger issue of piss-poor blocking. Was Mike Williams out there again today? 784960[/snapback] See this is where i disagree. If JP had been stripped of the ball, then its his fault for not protecting the ball. But on both of those plays, JP fumbled after being wrecked. The first fumble, the onyl mistake was maybe cocking to throw. Perhaps when hes got more experience, and a better feel of the pocket, he'll feel the rush and not attempt to pass. But if someone has chipped the blitzer even the slightest, JP gets that throw off. On the second fumble, Willis did an excellent impersonation of a matador in letting the blitzer pass him. JP got destroyed and thus fumbled. On the INT, it was a dumbass decision, and a poor throw. That play was his fault and he should have been smacked for making it. All in all, JP played decent, threw the ball well, and looked good. The mistakes he made are mistakes i expect him to make throughout the course of the season. Some boneheaded plays, and trying to make plays when he shouldnt. But nothing i have seen tells me that these mistakes arent anything more that JP going through growing pains as a QB. I'm sorry for the logic in this post, and the lack of my absolute stance on one side or the other of an issue. I know those types of posts dont sit well here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Well, on the first one JP saw the blitz, moved to his right to avoid it and then cocked his arm back when he knew there was a guy behind him. That's why I'd blame that one on JP. It's not really an issue of, "he can have one, but not two" it's a decision making issue on the first one while the second one can't be placed on his shoulder's at all Imo. The angriest I was all game was on that first fumble. It was just a horrible decision and one that a QB, no matter how young, should make. 785004[/snapback] When you're a quarterback, in a tight game, you cannot fumble twice and throw an INT. You can't do it. It doesn't matter if you are hit from behind or not. Again, mistakes are excusable. Several mistakes are not. Surely the one fumble was worse than the other. My point is only that he has to find a way to NOT fumble one of those two plays. This team can survive one TO. It has a chance to survive two. It is almost impossible to survive three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 There is a clear possiblity that a player can have a crappy game, and even be responsible for the loss, and yet show clear signs that he is improving and "getting it". They are not mutually exclusive, nor do you have to be a JP apologist for saying that there were a lot of things to be happy about watching that game. 784979[/snapback] That’s all my original point was. To add to that most young QB's that make it seem to hit a point in there development when production is strong but turnovers remain high. JP hasn't even reached that point in his development yet. He's appeared to play up tight and over cautious football, which limits turnovers but hurts accuracy and production. So when he lets loose like he did today, and some turnovers result, I can feel good in saying at least his production went way up. Without that increase then we should really start to worry. If people want to simplify it to it means nothing we still lost then so be it. It's probably the same people that thought we had a chance at the playoffs after week 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 That’s all my original point was. To add to that most young QB's that make it seem to hit a point in there development when production is strong but turnovers remain high. JP hasn't even reached that point in his development yet. He's appeared to play up tight and over cautious football, which limits turnovers but hurts accuracy and production. So when he lets loose like he did today, and some turnovers result, I can feel good in saying at least his production went way up. Without that increase then we should really start to worry. If people want to simplify it to it means nothing we still lost then so be it. It's probably the same people that thought we had a chance at the playoffs after week 2. 785013[/snapback] I'm ok with that. You're right - 3 turnovers with 90 yards would be a problem, but at least he made some plays. The last drive was just baffling to me - I thought he showed much more poise in the clutch vs. Carolina last year (his 4th down sideline throw was on target then) even though he ultimately was picked on that drive. Playoffs....playoffs? I just hope we can win another game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I know! JP should have been able to block those 2 blitzers that blindsided him causing him to fumble! The INT was his fault, it was a poor decision and poor throw. To blame the fumbles on him is assinine and myopic. 784730[/snapback] Jauron placed the blame for the 1st fumble on him, but the 2nd one was on Willis. JP needs to expect he has blindside protection, but it wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Again, mistakes are excusable. Several mistakes are not. 785010[/snapback] This is really my point. It's not a "mistake" if he fumbles the ball because he's in the middle of a throw and he's blindsided from the backside because his RB doesn't pick up the blitz. There's nothing he could do about it. It WAS a mistake with the first fumble (as was the INT) as it was a decision making issue that caused each of these turnovers. Perhaps it’s just me but I don’t consider something a “mistake” when a player has no control over what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 JP had a good game, far better than I would have thought. The biggest problem is he can't be perfect and with this team and these fans, apparently he has to be perfect. Bad pocket presense, as asserted by some fans, implies that he had a pocket to work in. Bottom line with this game. When the Jets wanted it, their lines got it. Whether pressure on JP or the first down run, they got it. And conversely our lines couldn't do anything when needed. 784741[/snapback] I thought the OL played a pretty good game. The DL is a different story. They couldn't get any pressure or sacks on Penny and could not stop the Jets on that crucial game breaking 7 minute drive late in the 4th. Of course the TO's killed us as well. If we can eliminate those costly TO mistakes we can win these games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 This is really my point. It's not a "mistake" if he fumbles the ball because he's in the middle of a throw and he's blindsided from the backside because his RB doesn't pick up the blitz. There's nothing he could do about it. It WAS a mistake with the first fumble (as was the INT) as it was a decision making issue that caused each of these turnovers. Perhaps it’s just me but I don’t consider something a “mistake” when a player has no control over what happened. 785022[/snapback] I agree with that. But a fumble is a turnover and mistake. Whether or not it is excusable or a player's fault is very arguable. The one you refer to I don't blame on Losman. My point is that it didn't matter which of the plays he was able to hang onto the ball on, the tough one or the not as tough one, he needs to hang onto one of them. It doesn't matter which. we can endure or survive one, we cannot endure or survive two. Especially with an INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 See this is where i disagree. If JP had been stripped of the ball, then its his fault for not protecting the ball. But on both of those plays, JP fumbled after being wrecked. The first fumble, the onyl mistake was maybe cocking to throw. Perhaps when hes got more experience, and a better feel of the pocket, he'll feel the rush and not attempt to pass. But if someone has chipped the blitzer even the slightest, JP gets that throw off. On the second fumble, Willis did an excellent impersonation of a matador in letting the blitzer pass him. JP got destroyed and thus fumbled. On the INT, it was a dumbass decision, and a poor throw. That play was his fault and he should have been smacked for making it. All in all, JP played decent, threw the ball well, and looked good. The mistakes he made are mistakes i expect him to make throughout the course of the season. Some boneheaded plays, and trying to make plays when he shouldnt. But nothing i have seen tells me that these mistakes arent anything more that JP going through growing pains as a QB. I'm sorry for the logic in this post, and the lack of my absolute stance on one side or the other of an issue. I know those types of posts dont sit well here. 785009[/snapback] Great post Ramius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 of course you are exxagerating, my problem with losman is his bledsoe-like pocket presence, he has to feel the heat...maybe that is something that comes with experience....hopefully I know! JP should have been able to block those 2 blitzers that blindsided him causing him to fumble! The INT was his fault, it was a poor decision and poor throw. To blame the fumbles on him is assinine and myopic. 784730[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 of course you are exxagerating, my problem with losman is his bledsoe-like pocket presence, he has to feel the heat...maybe that is something that comes with experience....hopefully 785286[/snapback] see my second post in this thread, the one luisima quoted. its more thought out and descriptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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