JP Losman haters will agree with GBN

[bluv]

that certainly nails it Dibs

 

For those that have a very negative view of the upcoming season (I judge those to be the 6 wins or less crowd), I ask you "how many wins did you expect the Bils to win last year?". if the number is the same as this year, then kudos to you - you were a lot smarter than I. Of course, injuries played into last year's outcome. In fact, for me, what really URKED me last season was the benching of JP - I am so upset that the Bills went 5-11 and the guy played for so few games. I know he was hurt for some of them but he should have played more -  especially week 17.

 

I expected about 10-11 wins last year. The defense crashing from top five to bottom five was totally unexpected. Can they recover? I am pretty certain that they can return to top 10 if TKO comes back and the Tripplet - ??? duo can stop the bleeding up the middle.

 

On offense, in my mind it comes down to two things :

 

1.) Can the line give the Bills QB sat least > 3.5 seconds on a regular basis?

2.) Can Nall/Losman complete 55% + of their passes? - notice I exclude Holcomb from this equation because Holcomb as QB = top five draft pick next year IMO.

 

My dream draft saturday is somehow DaBrick falls to 8 (forgetaboutit) After that, I am alright with Bunk-Ngata-Huff-Davis (whatever) but in rounds 2 -3 - 3 I want to see offensive/defensive linemen galore drafted. If I see CB's S's, RB and LB's I will throw up. BTW - I am o.k. wit h AJ if he falls to us at 8 (nevagonnahappin either)

 

-RnJ

668771[/snapback]

As far as JP playing only 8 games in a 5-11 seaosn I totally agree; what a wasted season that didn't accomplish nothing! Once we were out of it and having amjor injuries that was unacceptable.

 

The D can rebound if TKO returns to form and we add a quality DT to stop the run and hopefully find a DE that can pass rush opposite Schobel. If we can keep blockers off our LB's and let them make plays ath the LOS instead of 4-5 yards downfield we would get back into the top 5 run defenses. My dream draft would be to trade down and still pick up either Ngata or Bunkley and also acquire one of the top DEs in the 1st and in the 2nd get a quality guard. Then we could rebound next season and at least compete.

[GG]

Thanks - Your comments suggest strongly that, even when given time to throw, JP threw poorly? Or, is it more accurate to say that since JP could not read defenses quickly enough, blitzes killed him? I don't recall a lot of blitzes myself, I recall normal rushes and no time to throw. If true, there is no hot read. Only during blitzes are they in order.

 

Please post your assessment of the 2nd half of the season when you can - if you remember, pm me to  let me know your thread is out there

 

thanx

 

-RnJ

668730[/snapback]

 

Early on, JP was highly erratic, no matter what pressure was on him. Whether it was poor decisions or simply bad throws, he was a major factor to the offense not having any continuity. By the time Bills played NO, JP's flaws were blatant, and it was probably the easiest game for Hasslett to plan.

 

The biggest boost that Holcomb brought vs Miami, was his ability to make the easy dunks to continue moving the chains. But, without MW, they could not run the ball at all, and Miami shut Buffalo down after 1.5 quarters. People harp on the 2nd Miami game, but the 1st one was identical. With the missing running game, both QBs looked pathetic.

 

As to the other Qs in this thread:

 

-- The D played very well early on, high rush numbers notwithstanding. The Bills were in the game until late in the 4th Q in each of its 1st 3 losses.

 

-- People are reading too much into internal disagreements in playcalling. JP got the job well before he was ready and the coaching staff was in an enviable position of trying to put in a game plan for a QB who had a difficult time with fundamentals.

[Kelly the Dog]

Early on, JP was highly erratic, no matter what pressure was on him.  Whether it was poor decisions or simply bad throws, he was a major factor to the offense not having any continuity.  By the time Bills played NO, JP's flaws were blatant, and it was probably the easiest game for Hasslett to plan.

 

The biggest boost that Holcomb brought vs Miami, was his ability to make the easy dunks to continue moving the chains.  But, without MW, they could not run the ball at all, and Miami shut Buffalo down after 1.5 quarters.  People harp on the 2nd Miami game, but the 1st one was identical.  With the missing running game, both QBs looked pathetic.

 

As to the other Qs in this thread: 

 

--  The D played very well early on, high rush numbers notwithstanding.  The Bills were in the game until late in the 4th Q in each of its 1st 3 losses.

 

-- People are reading too much into internal disagreements in playcalling.  JP got the job well before he was ready and the coaching staff was in an enviable position of trying to put in a game plan for a QB who had a difficult time with fundamentals.

668976[/snapback]

I recall JP having to almost always take 5-7 step drops and try to read defenses with his WRs not being open, his TEs non-existent, and unable to make the 2nd and 3rd reads quick enough due to inexperience and a quickly collapsing pocket. I also remember all kinds of early penalties which put him in 1st and 20 or 2nd and 15 or 3rd and 25 positions. I also don't remember a lot of quick, safe swing passes, roll-outs, WR screens, moving pockets, designed dump offs to the backs until KH came in. Just a few. One doesn't have to know the play call when you see a 3 step drop versus a 7 step drop.

 

He was woefully inaccurate at times in the Tampa, Atlanta and New Orleans games for sure. And I am not saying he didn't play poorly, he did. But he had time in the Houston game and he did fine, although it was a sense of false confidence because they were terrible. And they simply didn't put him in a good position to make safe plays and gain some confidence. They thought he was ready or they totally mishandled him because it was clear he was not experienced enough to drop back, survey the whole field and make a quick decision or accurate throw after going through his reads. That was the main problem, IMO.

 

Also, the defense, IMO, was terrible in the Tampa game. It was a near miracle they were still in the game in the 3rd or 4th quarter.

[ganesh]

Also, everyone forgets how so many times we got into the Redzone and then had false start or holding penalties that killed the drive and instead of getting 7 having to go with 3.....That in itself was the difference in quite a few ball games...

[Orton's Arm]

Holcomb is a known commodity, so there's an incentive for a risk-adverse coach to go with him. That said, Nall has a lot more upside, and is probably a better fit for Fairchild's offense.

 

If the Bills don't like what they see from either of those two, they could always draft a QB. If they did decide to draft someone, the perfect situation would be to find this year's Matt Schaub: an accurate QB and a good decision maker who can be had in the middle rounds of the draft. Not sure who that would be.

[AJ1]

If every NFL QB who had a poor 1st Year as a Starter was a Bust there would be a lot more space in the HOF...

 

There is no way JP can be called a Bust at this point...Where was Brett Favre after his 2nd Year as a Pro? Not saying JP is another Favre, but you get the point...

 

Lets see what this New Coaching Staff can get out of JP in 2006, then maybe we will have a clearer picture. One thing I know for certain...If the Bills cannot build a consistant Run Game, JP will likely struggle once again next Season...

 

But we'll see...

668775[/snapback]

 

I know one thing. If every Bills' rookie QB is given 8 games to succeed or fail, then we won't develop a rookie QB for 20 years or more.

[Orton's Arm]

I know one thing.  If every Bills' rookie QB is given 8 games to succeed or fail, then we won't develop a rookie QB for 20 years or more.

669523[/snapback]

Agreed. I plan to give Nall more than just eight starts before writing him off.

[Buftex]

Agreed.  I plan to give Nall more than just eight starts before writing him off.

669619[/snapback]

 

 

I went back and watched some video of Nall (pre-season against the Bills, and the Bills/Packers scrimmage). There is something to like about him. One misconception of him seems to be that he is a drop back, immobile QB, like Drew Bledsoe. I can tell you, he may not be as mobile as Losman, but the guy is big, and pretty mobile, more like Ben Roethlisberger than Bledsoe....

[cantankerous]

Losman didn't look good even in the Houston game...he threw at least 3 passes that should have been picked, but somehow were dropped by Houston defenders. He's got no touch on his passes, they're all 100mph. I hope he can calm the hell down and play soundly enough to make some plays. I remember plenty of his passes that should have been picked but like I said he throws the ball so damn hard some bounced off defenders chests.

 

I've never been so nervous watching a QB play for the Bills.

[Orton's Arm]

I went back and watched some video of Nall (pre-season against the Bills, and the Bills/Packers scrimmage).  There is something to like about him.  One misconception of him seems to be that he is a drop back, immobile QB, like Drew Bledsoe.  I can tell you, he may not be as mobile as Losman, but the guy is big, and pretty mobile, more like Ben Roethlisberger than Bledsoe....

669627[/snapback]

From the video you watched, how quickly did he read the field and make decisions?

[Ramius]

From the video you watched, how quickly did he read the field and make decisions?

670334[/snapback]

 

faster than holcomb but not as good as losman...

[Buftex]

From the video you watched, how quickly did he read the field and make decisions?

670334[/snapback]

 

 

He was playing with the Packers third string offense, against the Bills third string defense. The Bills defense was all-out blitzing on every play...and was man-handling the Packers O-line. Nall was adept at getting rid of the ball quickly, and completed two really nice passes over the middle of the field...tough throws that not every QB could make, under so much pressure. His final stats were nothing spectacular, and I am not saying he is the next Roethlisberger...only that he has a physical prescence that neither Holcomb or Losman really showed this past season.

 

He just looks tougher than nails, like he can take a hit, and not get rattled. I was pleasently surprised by how well he moved, especially since I kept reading over and over (here!) that he was another statue...

[Orton's Arm]

faster than holcomb but not as good as losman...

670382[/snapback]

I guess I had that coming after all my digs against Losman on this thread.

[Orton's Arm]

He was playing with the Packers third string offense, against the Bills third string defense.  The Bills defense was all-out blitzing on every play...and was man-handling the Packers O-line.  Nall was adept at getting rid of the ball quickly, and completed two really nice passes over the middle of the field...tough throws that not every QB could make, under so much pressure.  His final stats were nothing spectacular, and I am not saying he is the next Roethlisberger...only that he has a physical prescence that neither Holcomb or Losman really showed this past season.

 

He just looks tougher than nails, like he can take a hit, and not get rattled.  I was pleasently surprised by how well he moved, especially since I kept reading over and over (here!) that he was another statue...

670386[/snapback]

It's nice to know Nall can make the most of a play when his offensive line is being dominated . . . not that that will be an issue on the Bills team.

 

I'm not 100% sold on Nall just yet, but the descriptions I've read from you and from Green Bay fans have been encouraging. I look forward to seeing how he handles himself in preseason. Wouldn't it be something if he turned out to be the next Favre backup to find success elsewhere?

[BobbyC81]

In the process of transferring some of the early season games to DVD, I looked at the replays in 20/20 hindsight.  My verdict - this was a much better team than 6-10.  Even after Spikes was gone, the D played well enough to keep them in the game. 

 

668713[/snapback]

 

 

Oh, definitely. Remember that early on the New Orleans, Atlanta and Tampa (sort of) games were there for the taking but the offense was inept and had to settle for FGs (especially vs Atl). Best case, they could've started 6-0 going to Oakland. Realistically, I'd not include the Tampa game, so figure a 5-1 record after 6 games. That would've been great for the confidence of Losman and the whole team. Instead, the offense's struggles led to media criticism and Losman's benching.

[Buftex]

Instead, the offense's struggles led to media criticism and Losman's benching.

671283[/snapback]

 

 

Yeah, but JP was a big part of the reason that the offense struggled in those games...the criticism was hardly unwarrented. I really like JP, but his first stint as a Bills starter was maybe the worst of any Bills QB I have ever witnessed. His performance against New Orleans was dreadful...Mularkey was rigth to bench him then. Not so much the second time he got benched though (later in the season), when he was starting to show some progress....

 

I agree with "cantankerous", about the Houston game. JP was decent, but the Texans helped...I think that game may have given him a false sense of how much he still had to learn...

[#1TN Bills Fan]

http://www.gbnreport.com/2006teampreviews.html

As to the GBN evaluation of the draft...no, I (opinion again folks) DO NOT think the Bills will use a high draft pick (or any of their picks in fact) on a QB. linemen linemen linemen Puleeze.

 

Go Bills!

 

-RichNJoisy

668707[/snapback]

I COMPLETELY AGREE with you! I don't care who's available at #8. If he's not an offensive or defensive lineman, I DON'T want him. Many of you keep forgetting the key to a successful team: you have to win the battle in the trenches. Right now, there are only a few guys on both sides of the ball that I think can get the job done in the trenches. Jason Peters, Aaron Schobel, Larry Triplett, and that's it! We need another pass rushing DE, a DT, a LT, LG, C, and an RG. We have to draft virtually one lineman with every pick! Yes, we do have other needs, but none are greater right now than linamen. Besides, who are we kidding? The only battle we'll win this year is the battle for third place in our division. Might as well just adress the lines, and get ready for the next season!!

[Orton's Arm]

If he's not an offensive or defensive lineman, I DON'T want him. Many of you keep forgetting the key to a successful team: you have to win the battle in the trenches.

Actually, the importance of winning in the trenches is possibly the most common theme on this board, and rightly so. But while Super Bowl teams win in the trenches, they also have top players elsewhere. Say you had a choice between drafting the next Jim Kelly, or the next Phil Hansen. Could you honestly say you'd be better off taking Phil? Or what if it came down to a choice between the next Jerry Rice, or the next Ruben Brown? Would you rather have Antonio Gates or John Fina?

 

My point is that finding greatness--especially in the first round--is a higher priority than taking a guy just because he fills a need.

[Dibs]

Actually, the importance of winning in the trenches is possibly the most common theme on this board, and rightly so.  But while Super Bowl teams win in the trenches, they also have top players elsewhere.  Say you had a choice between drafting the next Jim Kelly, or the next Phil Hansen.  Could you honestly say you'd be better off taking Phil?  Or what if it came down to a choice between the next Jerry Rice, or the next Ruben Brown?  Would you rather have Antonio Gates or John Fina?

 

My point is that finding greatness--especially in the first round--is a higher priority than taking a guy just because he fills a need.

672523[/snapback]

 

I agree with your point but I think you should compare apples with apples.

Jerry Rice = best of all time

Ruben Brown = Very good(typically viewed as over-rated) non HOF player

 

perhaps to explain your point....

 

Emmit Smith or Larry Allen

Joe Montana or Bruce Smith

Jim Kelly or Orlando Pace

 

...unless you think Kelly = Hansen?

[PromoTheRobot]

I really like JP, but his first stint as a Bills starter was maybe the worst of any Bills QB I have ever witnessed.

671292[/snapback]

You must be like 16 years old, because you obviously don't remember "all-pros" like Billy Joe Hobert, Vince Ferrigamo, Bruce Matheson, Todd Collins, and Joe Dufek. (I'm sure I'm forgetting some other gems) The list is endless. Trust me, JP Losman hasn't even come near the bottom of the Bills all-time QB barrell.

 

PTR