DT/NT We have one on payroll!

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

In our never ending search for some quality interior d- lineman why not try to convert Mike Williams to a nose tackle or D tackle? We all say he sucks as a pass blocker but is decent in the run game.

 

A true 2-gap nose tackle is really nothing more than a blocker. His job is to tie up linemen so the linebackers can make plays. Mike W is what 375lbs? If that tub of goo can't clog the middle then who can? He is still a young player. Rather than cut him which will cost a lot of cap dollars in dead money, why not consider him for the D-line?

 

I realize that Jauron just said today that we will play a 4-3 next season but I still think Big Mike should get a look at D tackle simply because he's huge and I hate dead cap space. Any thoughts?

[Bear]

:sigh:

 

And with that...I'm out.

[Rico]

I like $4.9M cap savings a lot more.

[ans4e64]

In our never ending search for some quality interior d- lineman why not try to convert Mike Williams to a nose tackle or D tackle? We all say he sucks as a pass blocker but is decent in the run game.

 

A true 2-gap nose tackle is really nothing more than a blocker. His job is to tie up linemen so the linebackers can make plays. Mike W is what 375lbs? If that tub of goo can't clog the middle then who can? He is still a young player. Rather than cut him which will cost a lot of cap dollars in dead money, why not consider him for the D-line?

 

I realize that Jauron just said today that we will play a 4-3 next season but I still think Big Mike should get a look at D tackle simply because he's huge and I hate dead cap space. Any thoughts?

593597[/snapback]

 

 

if mike williams cant stop the guys running past him, what makes you think he could be the guy running past them? He's not getting past anybody, and that is a liability. He used to come in at DT on the goal line, which i have no problem with because he doesnt really have to do anything other than stand there, but you cant do that in the middle of the field.

[nonprophet]

Others, including myself, have floated that idea before so, naturally, I like it. Without the zone blitz—now that the Bills D will be Cover 2—the NT job gets even easier: it's pretty much just blocking, as you said.

 

Williams was, if I remember correctly, effective as a lane clogger in limited use.

[34-78-83]

He already reported (check the sound bytes) that he is completely willing to take a pay cut, whether he stays at tackle or moves to RG.

 

Re: DT, I've heard stranger ideas that have worked before

[bobblehead]

This thread is offensive to fat people and professional defensive tackles.

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

I like $4.9M cap savings a lot more.

593608[/snapback]

 

Actually, if guys are running past MW and he is occupying two blockers then I would assume that one of our star linebackers would have a clean shot at any runner that is " running by him". Since our LB's are all world it should be no problem for them to hold the guy to @ a 2 yd gain. In cover two we are in official " Bend but don't break" land

[Acantha]

This thread is offensive to fat people and professional defensive tackles.

593621[/snapback]

Oh please. Don't you know that switching positions along the line, and apparently on either side of the ball, is just that easy?

 

In fact I say we just draft for size from now on instead of pesky things like talent.

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

This thread is offensive to fat people and professional defensive tackles.

593621[/snapback]

 

Do you remember Gilbert Brown? I doubt that fat tub had any more talent or skill than our beloved MW. He was however able to occupy at least two blockers so that our new lb coach could make tackles.

[BB2004]

In our never ending search for some quality interior d- lineman why not try to convert Mike Williams to a nose tackle or D tackle? We all say he sucks as a pass blocker but is decent in the run game.

 

A true 2-gap nose tackle is really nothing more than a blocker. His job is to tie up linemen so the linebackers can make plays. Mike W is what 375lbs? If that tub of goo can't clog the middle then who can? He is still a young player. Rather than cut him which will cost a lot of cap dollars in dead money, why not consider him for the D-line?

 

I realize that Jauron just said today that we will play a 4-3 next season but I still think Big Mike should get a look at D tackle simply because he's huge and I hate dead cap space. Any thoughts?

593597[/snapback]

 

First we have to be keeping him at a reduced contract, that is if we decide to keep him. Then, we have to ask him if he wants to play that position, and I don't think that would work. They tried him out at LG last year for a game and that didn't work. Personally, if they want to give him another chance at a reduced pay at RT, I'm for it. When he was run blocking, I'm not sure that there was anyone better on our team.

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

Oh please.  Don't you know that switching positions along the line, and apparently on either side of the ball, is just that easy?

 

In fact I say we just draft for size from now on instead of pesky things like talent.

593645[/snapback]

 

Oh please, we can put defensive lineman on offense but not the reverse? I coach high school football and we do this all the time. I'm not saying it would work but is it worth investigating? I think it is.

[Acantha]

I coach high school football and we do this all the time.

593665[/snapback]

Oh for the love of God....

[Nanker]

Mike Williams isn't tough enough to play Nose Picker, yet alone Nose Guard.

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

Oh for the love of God....

593673[/snapback]

 

Hey Faustus, it might be better if you finished your sentences then we could respond in an intelligent manner. Apparently you seem to fancy yourself as a sort of football expert. If you have something to say please say it.

 

I have been following the Bills since 1968. When I lived in the area I went to most of the games. When I went to UB we went every Sunday. Back then the Bills sucked , much like they do now. I am only trying to make a point that we need to explore all options. The fact that I coach football and played a lot of football,of course makes me think that I'm an expert like you. I'm sure you'll have a very nice return post.

[The Dean]

Hey Faustus, it might be better if you finished your sentences then we could respond in an intelligent manner. Apparently you seem to fancy yourself as a sort of football expert. If you have something to say please say it.

 

I have been following the Bills since 1968. When I lived in  the area I went to most of the games. When I went to UB we went every Sunday. Back then the Bills sucked , much like they do now. I am only trying to make a point that we need to explore all options. The fact that I coach football and played a lot of football,of course makes me think that I'm an expert like you. I'm sure you'll have a very nice return post.

593761[/snapback]

 

 

ROOKIE FIGHT!!!!!!!

[justnzane]

ROOKIE FIGHT!!!!!!!

593781[/snapback]

 

my money is on millstone... any takers?

[The Dean]

my money is on millstone... any takers?

593818[/snapback]

 

 

You're on! Faustus has come pretty strong early. I like the cut of his jib.

 

What's the bet? No shots at morons for a week?

 

Think of something interesting.

[Ozymandius]

Good idea. I'm one of the few people who have suggested this in the past. Mike Williams is a dominant force when he engages people -- unfortunatley, people can run around him. If he were a DT, it'd actually be the opponent's JOB to engage with him. He'd dominate, imo. Bill Belichick switches players from offense to defense and vice versa ALL THE TIME with success. Unfortunately, we will never have a coach smart enough or creative enough to try the same.

 

I'll say this. Mike Williams will be a better DT than Haloti Ngata.

[Acantha]

Hey Faustus, it might be better if you finished your sentences then we could respond in an intelligent manner. Apparently you seem to fancy yourself as a sort of football expert. If you have something to say please say it.

 

I have been following the Bills since 1968. When I lived in  the area I went to most of the games. When I went to UB we went every Sunday. Back then the Bills sucked , much like they do now. I am only trying to make a point that we need to explore all options. The fact that I coach football and played a lot of football,of course makes me think that I'm an expert like you. I'm sure you'll have a very nice return post.

593761[/snapback]

I do so apologize for not finishing my senteces, I was assuming the end was clear. For the love of god...I can't believe you are comparing high school football to NFL!

More? There is a huge difference between sticking a D-lineman on the Oline for a goalline play and putting MW in at NT permanatley. Those Dlineman are told to go forward as hard as you can. That's it. There are no adjustments. No reads. NO talent! Just "GO FORWARD".

You seem to be of the opinion that a NT does nothing but stand there. Take up space. If that were the case, there would be hundred good NT in the league! All you would have to do is get a big guy. Done!

 

This isn't high school, college, or the new and improved version of Madden. If the Bills want a DT that will help stop the run, improve the LB's ability to move around, and make this defense scary again, they better not try to stick a square peg into a round hole. They need to go out and find a DT!

[Shamrock]

Mike Williams isn't tough enough to play Nose Picker, yet alone Nose Guard.

593751[/snapback]

 

I was disapointed at how often in his very first training camp he actually participated. He seemed happy to be standing back with Ruben, making jokes whilst others went on 5-4 and 1-1 drills. I was shocked that something like $8m had been spent on someone that appeared that lazy. He did improve his second year and totally regressed to a non-participant again this year. I doubt he'd be enough of a professional to make a career change to the other line. IMO.

[Scraps]

In our never ending search for some quality interior d- lineman why not try to convert Mike Williams to a nose tackle or D tackle? We all say he sucks as a pass blocker but is decent in the run game.

 

A true 2-gap nose tackle is really nothing more than a blocker. His job is to tie up linemen so the linebackers can make plays. Mike W is what 375lbs? If that tub of goo can't clog the middle then who can? He is still a young player. Rather than cut him which will cost a lot of cap dollars in dead money, why not consider him for the D-line?

 

I realize that Jauron just said today that we will play a 4-3 next season but I still think Big Mike should get a look at D tackle simply because he's huge and I hate dead cap space. Any thoughts?

593597[/snapback]

 

In a 3-4, the DT is the cornerstone of the defense. Do you really think it is wise to commit this team to a defense, and 5 million in salary, to a guy who has never played to position and has shown little, if any, heart?

 

Besides, Williams is tall and slow off the ball, even when he knows the snap count. I think opposing guards/centers will find it relatively easy to get under him, get leverage and move him just enough to create holes. Thats not to mention that our DEs and LBs are small for the 3-4.

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

I do so apologize for not finishing my senteces, I was assuming the end was clear.  For the love of god...I can't believe you are comparing high school football to NFL!

More?  There is a huge difference between sticking a D-lineman on the Oline for a goalline play and putting MW in at NT permanatley.  Those Dlineman are told to go forward as hard as you can.  That's it.  There are no adjustments.  No reads.  NO talent!  Just "GO FORWARD".

You seem to be of the opinion that a NT does nothing but stand there.  Take up space.  If that were the case, there would be hundred good NT in the league!  All you would have to do is get a big guy.  Done!

 

This isn't high school, college, or the new and improved version of Madden.  If the Bills want a DT that will help stop the run, improve the LB's ability to move around, and make this defense scary again, they better not try to stick a square peg into a round hole.  They need to go out and find a DT!

594017[/snapback]

 

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought we were talking about a 2-gap d-lineman. I agree 100% that a 1 gap player like Fat Sam should just " GO FORWARD" but not all NT or DT play is coached that way. Some coaches, like me teach players to simply occupy blockers, as many as possible , so that our playmakers can make plays.

 

I spent an afternoon this summer with Max Bowman who used to be on Marv's staff back in the 80's and was with Wade after that. He coaches at Rutgers now. We talked only about the type of player needed to be a NT. He said that the most important thing you want your NT to do is punish the center, play after play. Don't worry about his tackles or sacks or anything. If a Nt does his job then the center will lose his will to play.

 

I took that advice and tried to find the best RUN BLOCKER I could find and lined him up at NT. I tried to teach a quick 1st step and hammer the center. It does work.

 

All this being said, I agree with Faustus. Please draft Nagata in the 1st. I just think that MW is a mass of humanity anf if he can fill space and punish the guy in front of him it may be worth a look.

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

ROOKIE FIGHT!!!!!!!

593781[/snapback]

 

My God! I checked your profile and saw that you are older than me. I thought I was the oldest bastard on here. 12/30/58 that is ancient, at least I thought so!

[millstone twnsp nj bills fan]

Good idea.  I'm one of the few people who have suggested this in the past.  Mike Williams is a dominant force when he engages people -- unfortunatley, people can run around him.  If he were a DT, it'd actually be the opponent's JOB to engage with him.  He'd dominate, imo.  Bill Belichick switches players from offense to defense and vice versa ALL THE TIME with success.  Unfortunately, we will never have a coach smart enough or creative enough to try the same.

 

I'll say this.  Mike Williams will be a better DT than Haloti Ngata.

593900[/snapback]

 

That's what I think. If it is simplified for MW to just attack an area or a player then he could possibly be dominant, assuming he has the will. A BIG assumption!

[In space no one can hear]

In our never ending search for some quality interior d- lineman why not try to convert Mike Williams to a nose tackle or D tackle? We all say he sucks as a pass blocker but is decent in the run game.

 

A true 2-gap nose tackle is really nothing more than a blocker. His job is to tie up linemen so the linebackers can make plays. Mike W is what 375lbs? If that tub of goo can't clog the middle then who can? He is still a young player. Rather than cut him which will cost a lot of cap dollars in dead money, why not consider him for the D-line?

 

I realize that Jauron just said today that we will play a 4-3 next season but I still think Big Mike should get a look at D tackle simply because he's huge and I hate dead cap space. Any thoughts?

593597[/snapback]

 

 

And I thought Soprano was the most despised poster on this site.... with a post like that you might want to crawl under the nearest rock....

[Bill from NYC]

In our never ending search for some quality interior d- lineman why not try to convert Mike Williams to a nose tackle or D tackle? We all say he sucks as a pass blocker but is decent in the run game.

 

A true 2-gap nose tackle is really nothing more than a blocker. His job is to tie up linemen so the linebackers can make plays. Mike W is what 375lbs? If that tub of goo can't clog the middle then who can? He is still a young player. Rather than cut him which will cost a lot of cap dollars in dead money, why not consider him for the D-line?

 

I realize that Jauron just said today that we will play a 4-3 next season but I still think Big Mike should get a look at D tackle simply because he's huge and I hate dead cap space. Any thoughts?

593597[/snapback]

 

I think that he counts more than 10.8 million toward the cap in 06.

I also think that to allocate more than 10% of the Bills salary cap to a player with a host of issues while he is attempting to learn a new position would be an unwise thing to do. He couldn't even complete the switch to guard.

 

Then again, maybe I am being to negative.

[MikeSpeed]

I've herd crazier ideas. Like a 328 lb. undrafted TE bring converted to the starting right tackle. I guess I would have to know if there is a benefit to having him cut before training camp, or if the experiment doesn't work, cutting him during the normal cut down dates.

[Orton's Arm]

I like the idea of at least experimenting with putting Mike Williams on the defensive line. He still does have the raw talent that made him a #4 pick, and you'd think that talent could be put to use somewhere. At RT, he struggled with small but quick pass rushers simply going around him. At DT, you'd think a guy like that could simply maul people, without getting caught up in the complexity of OG. My biggest concern is whether he has the heart, toughness, and nastiness to be a good DT.

[Scraps]

I've herd crazier ideas. Like a 328 lb. undrafted TE bring converted to the starting right tackle. I guess I would have to know if there is a benefit to having him cut before training camp, or if the experiment doesn't work, cutting him during the normal cut down dates.

594586[/snapback]

 

The benefit of cutting him early is that you can commit his $5 million salary to people you believe can help you. Keeping him to or through training camp takes up takes away flexibility to sign free agents.

[The Dean]

My God! I checked your profile and saw that you are older than me. I thought  I was the oldest bastard on here. 12/30/58 that is ancient, at least I thought so!

594539[/snapback]

 

 

Yes, I am older than dirt...at least for this board. Fortunately, my father taught me "you're as old as the women you feel". So by that standard, I'm a pretty young buck!

 

Also, I apoligize for betting against you (but not for beting on Faustus). IMO, you both represent the best of what TSW posters are...smart and opinionated. AND, at least in your case, willing to say "hey, I misinterpreted". That's a welcome addition to our community, IMO.

[nonprophet]

In a 3-4, the DT is the cornerstone of the defense.  Do you really think it is wise to commit this team to a defense, and 5 million in salary, to a guy who has never played to position and has shown little, if any, heart?

 

Besides, Williams is tall and slow off the ball, even when he knows the snap count.  I think opposing guards/centers will find it relatively easy to get under him, get leverage and move him just enough to create holes.  Thats not to mention that our DEs and LBs are small for the 3-4.

594379[/snapback]

Who said we have to switch to utilize an NT? In the Bills current 4-3, the DT tandem is composed of a "nose tackle" and an "under tackle". The nose tackle's job is the same as in a 3-4, tie up the center and a guard. The under tackle's job is to penetrate into the backfield and disrupt the play. Sam Adams is more of an under tackle than a nose tackle.

 

Anyway, Jauron already publicly stated that the Bills defense will use a 4-3 base alignment next season, so the 3-4 is right out.

[Scraps]

Who said we have to switch to utilize an NT? In the Bills current 4-3, the DT tandem is composed of a "nose tackle" and an "under tackle". The nose tackle's job is the same as in a 3-4, tie up the center and a guard. The under tackle's job is to penetrate into the backfield and disrupt the play. Sam Adams is more of an under tackle than a nose tackle.

 

Anyway, Jauron already publicly stated that the Bills defense will use a 4-3 base alignment next season, so the 3-4 is right out.

594735[/snapback]

 

Point taken.

[The_Real]

I like $4.9M cap savings a lot more.

593608[/snapback]

 

 

The difference after penalties won't be nearly that much. You have to get this guy to renegotiate or he has to go though. No question.

 

 

T_R

[Scraps]

The difference after penalties won't be nearly that much.  You have to get this guy to renegotiate or he has to go though.  No question. 

T_R

594756[/snapback]

 

No, that number is right. Mike Williams counts 10.8 million against the cap. If he is cut, there is a 4.9 million savings.

[Orton's Arm]

If Mike Williams is cut, I would advise him to play for Parcells. If anyone can figure out a way to get under that guy's skin and get him motivated, it would be Parcells.

[BADOLBILZ]

In our never ending search for some quality interior d- lineman why not try to convert Mike Williams to a nose tackle or D tackle? We all say he sucks as a pass blocker but is decent in the run game.

 

A true 2-gap nose tackle is really nothing more than a blocker. His job is to tie up linemen so the linebackers can make plays. Mike W is what 375lbs? If that tub of goo can't clog the middle then who can? He is still a young player. Rather than cut him which will cost a lot of cap dollars in dead money, why not consider him for the D-line?

 

I realize that Jauron just said today that we will play a 4-3 next season but I still think Big Mike should get a look at D tackle simply because he's huge and I hate dead cap space. Any thoughts?

593597[/snapback]

 

The issue with Williams isn't whether he can be a good OL, it's whether he will do what it takes to be a good OL. Namely, get in shape and play thru minor injuries.

 

To play defense would only be harder. Defenders need to be better conditioned, and from the stats I've seen, they also actually get hurt more often than offensive players. What Ted Washington does may look easy, but there are a lot of fat guys who can't drop anchor and stack and shed against double teams.

 

Most players who switch sides of the line go from defense to offense because it's easier to move an athletic DL player to a more technique oriented position than it is the other way around. See Justin Bannan. Also see everyone's TSW All American, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, who reportedly is a 5.4 40 yard dash guy despite being about the same height and weight as top DE prospect Mario Williams, who is expected to clock a 4.7 or less. Physical demands are greater on the DL than the OL.