34-78-83 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Back to the Johnson Flutie thing... For all of the speculation that we have that TD is a control freak, I really do think that this particular decision was all GW. It would have been perfectly in keeping for GW to have felt that he ALONE could take this talented but fragile young QB and mold him into being a superstar. He had recruited Mike Shepard, Holmgren's QB coach to take over as GM -- and he was convinced that RJ would thrive in the West Coast offense. TD, meanwhile, had just come from ESPN, where as an analyst when asked about the QB situation in Buffalo, he cited Flutie's record as a starter and asked "What's the question?" I think GW sold TD on the point that past injuries had made RJ something of an unknown commodity, while Flutie's age provided lesser upside. GW went through the motions of talking to the players in the clubhouse about their opinions -- but his decision was clearly made up. Sadly it was this arrogance that marked GW's career in Buffalo, and I am sure he is feeding off of this "Defensive genius" stuff we keep hearing out of Washington. All of which is to say... when making a list for the prosecution regarding TD's failures in Buffalo, I'd pass on this particular allegation. 540101[/snapback] Wow, you're on a roll today. Another great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I'd be very surprised that it's chummy-chummy. I think TD has put the fear of God into MM, that if he even thinks about ever publicly questioning him, he'll be sleeeping with the fish. Everyone comments how MM sounds alot like GW these days. Wouldn't be surprised if its cause TD spanks him every time he speaks the truth in any way. Those are some solid drafts with Pittsburgh. The difference being Cowher is a hell of a coach and those draft picks developed under a winning philosophy. I still think Donahoe and Mularkey should be given another year. I would like to see Mularkey start to question Donahoe a little more publicly. The perception that they are too chummy-chummy doesn't sit well. I think the fans would like to see that the Coach and GM are as pissed off about this season as the fans. 540052[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Wow, you're on a roll today. Another great post 540104[/snapback] Thank you, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Those are solid drafts? Look just like Buffalos to me. Drafts with one good player coming out of each. Hines Ward was probably his best pickup ever. 540071[/snapback] Are you serious? Those were some great drafts--a lot of all-pro players and starters for some great Steelers teams. I would include the following players as great picks (particularly in light of where they were chosen in the draft): Joey Porter Aaron Smith Kris Brown Alan Faneca Hines Ward Deshea Townsend Chad Scott Mike Vrabel Jamain Stephens Earl Holmes Orpheus Roye Carlos Emmons Mark Bruener Kordell Stewart Brenden Stai Oliver Gibson Lethon Flowers Charles Johnson Brentson Buckner Jason Gildon Bam Morris Jim Miller Deon Figures Chad Brown Willie Williams Jeff Zgonina Alex Van Pelt Leon Searcy Levon Kirkland Joel Steed Darren Perry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Are you serious? Those were some great drafts--a lot of all-pro players and starters for some great Steelers teams. I would include the following players as great picks (particularly in light of where they were chosen in the draft): Joey Porter Aaron Smith Kris Brown Alan Faneca Hines Ward Deshea Townsend Chad Scott Mike Vrabel Jamain Stephens Earl Holmes Orpheus Roye Carlos Emmons Mark Bruener Kordell Stewart Brenden Stai Oliver Gibson Lethon Flowers Charles Johnson Brentson Buckner Jason Gildon Bam Morris Jim Miller Deon Figures Chad Brown Willie Williams Jeff Zgonina Alex Van Pelt Leon Searcy Levon Kirkland Joel Steed Darren Perry 540113[/snapback] Well, in fairness his name is "Billsjunkie" not "football junkie". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 Are you serious? Those were some great drafts--a lot of all-pro players and starters for some great Steelers teams. I would include the following players as great picks (particularly in light of where they were chosen in the draft): Joey Porter Aaron Smith Kris Brown Alan Faneca Hines Ward Deshea Townsend Chad Scott Mike Vrabel Jamain Stephens Earl Holmes Orpheus Roye Carlos Emmons Mark Bruener Kordell Stewart Brenden Stai Oliver Gibson Lethon Flowers Charles Johnson Brentson Buckner Jason Gildon Bam Morris Jim Miller Deon Figures Chad Brown Willie Williams Jeff Zgonina Alex Van Pelt Leon Searcy Levon Kirkland Joel Steed Darren Perry 540113[/snapback] Jamain Stephens ? Now that's some funny sh-- right there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Chris's brother? 540054[/snapback] Wow, I can't believe I totally missed that. This just kills me - TD must have loved the high motor on Chris, after the stellar career his brother had in Pittsburgh. The best pickup of a brother tandem since Cleveland picked Mike Junkin after the stellar LB career of brother Trey in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Jamain Stephens ? Now that's some funny sh-- right there! 540147[/snapback] You're right; my bad. He wasn't supposed to be on that list. He belongs on the list of TD's biggest busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Back to the Johnson Flutie thing... For all of the speculation that we have that TD is a control freak, I really do think that this particular decision was all GW. It would have been perfectly in keeping for GW to have felt that he ALONE could take this talented but fragile young QB and mold him into being a superstar. He had recruited Mike Shepard, Holmgren's QB coach to take over as GM -- and he was convinced that RJ would thrive in the West Coast offense. TD, meanwhile, had just come from ESPN, where as an analyst when asked about the QB situation in Buffalo, he cited Flutie's record as a starter and asked "What's the question?" I think GW sold TD on the point that past injuries had made RJ something of an unknown commodity, while Flutie's age provided lesser upside. GW went through the motions of talking to the players in the clubhouse about their opinions -- but his decision was clearly made up. Sadly it was this arrogance that marked GW's career in Buffalo, and I am sure he is feeding off of this "Defensive genius" stuff we keep hearing out of Washington. All of which is to say... when making a list for the prosecution regarding TD's failures in Buffalo, I'd pass on this particular allegation. 540101[/snapback] The rumor I heard was that Flutie & Johnson both were brought in to interview. Flutie basically said he'd run the offense that GW was installing, but if it didn't work he was going to do what he usually does & not stick with GW's offense. GW couldn't have a QB who would question his authority if his O was less than successful & the team chose Johnson as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Those are solid drafts? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 Yes. 540393[/snapback] Solid coaching if you ask me. Alot of those players went to other teams and turned to sh--. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 1999 3 3 12 73 Joey Porter DE Colorado State 4 3 13 74 Kris Farris T UCLA (...he did come to Buffalo...but with injuries- wasn't he like a College Superstar- Outland (?) trophy winner? 6 4 14 109 Aaron Smith DE Northern Colorado 1998 1 1 26 26 Alan Faneca G Louisiana State 2 2 11 41 Jeremy Staat DE Arizona State 1997 4 3 31 91 Mike Vrabel DE Ohio State 1996 1 1 29 29 Jamain Stephens T North Carolina A&T 4 4 31 126 Earl Holmes LB Florida A&M 7 6 33 200 Orpheus Roye DE Florida State 9 7 33 242 Carlos Emmons LB Arkansas State 1995 3 3 27 91 Brenden Stai G Nebraska 4 4 22 120 Oliver Gibson DE Notre Dame 1994 2 2 21 50 Brentson Buckner DE Clemson 3 3 23 88 Jason Gildon LB Oklahoma State 1993 2 2 15 44 Chad Brown LB Colorado 8 7 17 185 Jeff Zgonina DT Purdue 1992 1 1 11 11 Leon Searcy T Miami (FL) 2 2 10 38 Levon Kirkland LB Clemson 3 3 11 67 Joel Steed DT Colorado There are some solid "trench" playing guys in that list, most are still playing somewhere as well. There are some decent LBer finds as welll. Whose the LBer scout at Pitt? Brown, Gildon, Kirkland, Holmes, Emmons, Vrabel, Porter- none higher than a 2nd pick too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 You're right; my bad. He wasn't supposed to be on that list. He belongs on the list of TD's biggest busts. 540192[/snapback] As does Kordell Stewart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 gotta like that Troy Edwards pick in 1st round- another midget punt returner who couldn't cut it as a WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I think probably his biggest QB error was his first: picking Johnson over Flutie. At the time, I agreed with the move because of RJ's upside. But Flutie won games and if we had Flutie as QB with the defenses that GW put together his second and third years, there's no doubt we would have been a playoff team and GW would have still been here. 540033[/snapback] while its hard to dispute the argument that riding flutie and the defense gives the bills a better chance than chancing johnson and riding the defense, in hindsight the bills were a mess that season. the defense sucked and the offense sucked before you even began talking QB. the difference between flutie or johnson is the difference between arguing which type of feces is better to plunge? is it really the TP overloaded diarreah toilet or the giant unbreakable log jam? in the end you're just dealing with a pile of sh-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 From my understanding, and according to many diehard Steeler fan friends of mine (I have all together too many friends that are Steeler fans), a big part of the power struggle between Cowher and TD at the end was that TD wanted NO PART of Kordell as QB, and Cowher wanted to stick with him. These guys know their Steelers info well enough IMO that I will trust them. I could have posted the exact same words. That's how I've heard it from an awful lot of people who I think know what they're talking about. And the fact that Donahoe always had guys like Tomczak, JimMiller and KentGraham around doesn't hurt that theory either. Cya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Solid coaching if you ask me. Alot of those players went to other teams and turned to sh--. 540395[/snapback] Which ones were those? Chad Brown? Mike Vrabel? Orpheus Roye? Carlos Emmons? Brentson Buckner? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Which ones were those? Chad Brown? Mike Vrabel? Orpheus Roye? Carlos Emmons? Brentson Buckner? JDG 540710[/snapback] or maybe he meant Zgonina, Earl Holmes, Brendan Stai or Searcy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I think TD drafts good players. However he doesn't, or at least hasn't here in Buffalo, successfully drafted or negotiated what we need to win, nor has he found good coaches, when plenty of good coaches were available. Finally, and most important, he hasn't gotten us to a playoff game. There are certain jobs where the proof is in the pudding, and for a GM over a five year period, there is a need to show real results in the win loss column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomcat Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I think probably his biggest QB error was his first: picking Johnson over Flutie. At the time, I agreed with the move because of RJ's upside. But Flutie won games and if we had Flutie as QB with the defenses that GW put together his second and third years, there's no doubt we would have been a playoff team and GW would have still been here. 540033[/snapback] after winning a few games in San Diego...Flutieboy lost 8 in a row....teams figured him out...... Flutie=RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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