one final myth to explode:

[dave mcbride]

they are 26th in defense and 29th on offense. their numbers are bad for a reason: they are not a talented team, and clearly fall in the bottom half of the league in terms of personnel. yes, they have some talented individual players, but so does every other team in the league (check out the arizona cardinals roster and you'll see my point). presently, they have a borderline qb (he may get better, of course), one really talented WR alongside a slowing, disgruntled vet and some nonentities, a pretty good RB who doesn't fumble, a terrible, undertalented offensive line, no capable tight end, one very good defensive end in schoebel alongside a group of true nonentities on the d-line, a good cb in clements, a promising-but-hardly-great (and also injured) cb in mcgee, aging safeties (one of whom, milloy, looks about done), and a mediocre LB crew with the one good player from that unit trying to come back from about the worst injury in pro football. and damione shelton -- i almost forgot about him!

[Nanker]

Now some may look at that nice listing and say the glass is "half full."

I, on the other hand take a different view.

The glass is damn near empty.

 

One can only hope that any off-season house cleaning that occurs at OBD will begin with those Gawd-awful uniforms. They look like they were designed for a gay roller derby team - not that there's anything wrong with a gay roller derby team mind you. But even a CFL team wouldn't want to wear them. I can't imagine many of The Bills really like them. Maybe that's why they're playing so crappy - they're getting a lot of smack talk about 'em on the field.

 

Anyway, Rian Lindell's having a great year. Moorman's still pretty good. The throwbacks are nice too.

[JAMIEBUF12]

i disagree,i think the bills have alot of talent on the team.we just need to build the lines.

[Bflojohn]

Me thinks that Jamiebuf12 is right on the button with his comment! Fix BOTH lines and suddenly you are NOT minimizing the actual talent that is on-hand. Losman to Evans is going to roll off of Bills' fans tongues with the same regularity as Kelly to Reed within 2 or 3 years! Bank on it!!!!

[dave mcbride]

Me thinks that Jamiebuf12 is right on the button with his comment! Fix BOTH lines and suddenly you are NOT minimizing the actual talent that is on-hand. Losman to Evans is going to roll off of Bills' fans tongues with the same regularity as Kelly to Reed within 2 or 3 years! Bank on it!!!!

522589[/snapback]

"the lines" compose almost half the team.

[Buftex]

What Jamie said! The Bills could certainly use some depth, and maybe a few defensive starters are getting long in the tooth, but there is still a lot of talent on the roster...it always comes down to the lines...always has, always will.

 

Despite the miserable year, I still think this team is on the cusp of being very good....

[dave mcbride]

What Jamie said!  The Bills could certainly use some depth, and maybe a few defensive starters are getting long in the tooth, but there is still a lot of talent on the roster...it always comes down to the lines...always has, always will.

 

Despite the miserable year, I still think this team is on the cusp of being very good....

522598[/snapback]

every bad team in the nfl is on the cusp of being very good. like the bills, they all need improvement at 6 or 7 positions. for instance, give sf 2 good cornerbacks, a capable qb, and one good WCO receiver, and they're off to the races. give houston a cover cornerback, an elite linebacker, and 3 good offensive linemen, and you get the same result.

[Bflojohn]

Dave, your point is HIGHLY valid, however, in todays NFL, getting 6 or 7 players that turn around a weak team is NOT impossible! This offseason COULD produce a vastly different team for next year! I'm not totally sold that the Bills can do this, but the evidence is there historically that it CAN be done!! The April draft has to bring at least 3 or 4 guys that can play right NOW! Free agency must do the same!That's why the Bills should explore any avenue to trade down for multiple picks in round one! Denver has two this year, talk to them!!

[Mark VI]

The GM, Intelligent Coaching and shortages of OL, DL talent. There are 40 + players on this roster that are pretty good at their expected roles.

 

Throwing the entire roster under the bus is not fair..and very messy.

[colin]

every bad team in the nfl is on the cusp of being very good. like the bills, they all need improvement at 6 or 7 positions. for instance, give sf 2 good cornerbacks, a capable qb, and one good WCO receiver, and they're off to the races. give houston a cover cornerback, an elite linebacker, and 3 good offensive linemen, and you get the same result.

522607[/snapback]

 

hmmmm

 

the seahawks got smoked by us in a road game that we gave them every chance to win (3 picks?). we owned them.

 

we are down one good DT, and our great LB on D.

 

Granted our Line is downgraded and hurt, but the seahawks got a couple young guys in the D stepping up this year and are now the top team in the NFC.

 

we get back to where we were, but with a better O line and younger O, with one solid offseason.

 

we get a coach in here who knows his ass from a hole in the ground, we are good

[Kelly the Dog]

Just halfway decent coaching and even with these players and injuries this team is 7-5 and maybe 8-4. There is no excuse for us not winning the Patsie game, the Dolphin game and the Saints game even the way they played out. The Falcons and the Panthers were very winable, too.

[The Dean]

Just halfway decent coaching and even with these players and injuries this team is 7-5 and maybe 8-4. There is no excuse for us not winning the Patsie game, the Dolphin game and the Saints game even the way they played out. The Falcons and the Panthers were very winable, too.

522758[/snapback]

 

 

What the Dog said.

 

PLUS, fixing the line doesn't mean replacing every player on the line. It means an upgrade or two in key positions and a change in philopsophy.

[Like A Mofo]

they are 26th in defense and 29th on offense. their numbers are bad for a reason: they are not a talented team, and clearly fall in the bottom half of the league in terms of personnel. yes, they have some talented individual players, but so does every other team in the league (check out the arizona cardinals roster and you'll see my point).  presently, they have a borderline qb (he may get better, of course), one really talented WR alongside a slowing, disgruntled vet and some nonentities, a pretty good RB who doesn't fumble, a terrible, undertalented offensive line, no capable tight end, one very good defensive end in schoebel alongside a group of true nonentities on the d-line, a good cb in clements, a promising-but-hardly-great (and also injured) cb in mcgee, aging safeties (one of whom, milloy, looks about done), and a mediocre LB crew with the one good player from that unit trying to come back from about the worst injury in pro football. and damione shelton -- i almost forgot about him!

522204[/snapback]

 

 

I hate to say it but I nominate this for most realistic, most not drinking the Kool-Aid, honest look at the state of the Buffalo Bills. Excellent post.

[Albany,n.y.]

The 1985 team had some pretty good players too & they were the worst team in the league. A year later the franchise QB arrived & we doubled our victory total to 4. I looked at an old program I have from the 1985 season and compiled this list The 1985 Bills included:

Jerry Butler, Jim Ritcher, Joe Devlin, Andre Reed, Chris Burkett, Greg Bell, Joe Cribbs, Robb Riddick (IR),Pete Metzelaars, Frank Reich (IR)

Fred Smerlas, Bruce Smith, Martin Bayless, Darryl Talley, Derrick Burroughs, That was 15 solid players, some before their peak years. They also had some players who were on the downside of good careers: Steve Freeman, Charles Romes, Will Grant, Eugene Marve, Jim Haslett, Lucious Sanford, Joe DeLamielleure, Ken Jones, Ben Williams. That's 24 decent players. Among them, there are 4 current Wall of Famers and at least 2 more. I'd say the team is in similar shape to the 1985 team-the big difference being that there's free agency today & you can fix a team a lot quicker.

[Beerstm]

i like the new uni's

 

keep them dump TD

 

Now some may look at that nice listing and say the glass is "half full."

I, on the other hand take a different view.

The glass is damn near empty.

 

One can only hope that any off-season house cleaning that occurs at OBD will begin with those Gawd-awful uniforms. They look like they were designed for a gay roller derby team - not that there's anything wrong with a gay roller derby team mind you. But even a CFL team wouldn't want to wear them. I can't imagine many of The Bills really like them. Maybe that's why they're playing so crappy - they're getting a lot of smack talk about 'em on the field.

 

Anyway, Rian Lindell's having a great year. Moorman's still pretty good. The throwbacks are nice too.

522298[/snapback]

[Alaska Darin]

Man, I love fatalism. Truly I do.

[Nanker]

Dave, your point is HIGHLY valid, however, in todays NFL, getting 6 or 7 players that turn around a weak team is NOT impossible! This offseason COULD produce a vastly different team for next year! I'm not totally sold that the Bills can do this, but the evidence is there historically that it CAN be done!! The April draft has to bring at least 3 or 4 guys that can play right NOW! Free agency must do the same!That's why the Bills should explore any avenue to trade down for multiple picks in round one! Denver has two this year, talk to them!!

522618[/snapback]

 

It certainly has eluded Tom Donnaho for five years.

I agree in principle that a turnaround can be accomplished relatively quickly - within two to three years. But TD's been here for five and we're in a marginally better position now than before he arrived. ANY GM could get a team out of cap jail in the manner he did here, but the pieces he put into place have for whatever reason not gelled.

 

He chose Rob Johnson over Duggie Flatus in order to develop a QB and build the team for the long haul.

Then he picked up DB to be a veteran leader, and he had to cut him because DB proved he was no leader.

He and his incompetent coaching staff ran Ruben Brown out of town.

He drafted MW because realistically, he couldn't do anything else and MW crapped in his helmet and has his ticket punched for the short bus out of town.

He rode Travis Henry harder than Travis did his 14 year old girlfriend and the guy that ran TH out of a job hasn't decided whether or not he wants to play hard every game.

The jury's still out on Mularkey, but obviously TD did not learn a friggin thing from his hiring of Greggo - other than to insist the assistants he hire have at least some NFL coaching experience.

His guy Mularkey gave Rusty Jones the heave-ho and the current strength and conditioning coach doesn't have his guys in shape to play 60 minutes of pro football. Which I think is a big reason why some of the vets have been injured and hobbled this year.

 

TD may have a plan. But then again, so did Papillion and you know where HE kept his. It's the same place many think TD has his head much of the time.

[Tcali]

they are 26th in defense and 29th on offense. their numbers are bad for a reason: they are not a talented team, and clearly fall in the bottom half of the league in terms of personnel. yes, they have some talented individual players, but so does every other team in the league (check out the arizona cardinals roster and you'll see my point).  presently, they have a borderline qb (he may get better, of course), one really talented WR alongside a slowing, disgruntled vet and some nonentities, a pretty good RB who doesn't fumble, a terrible, undertalented offensive line, no capable tight end, one very good defensive end in schoebel alongside a group of true nonentities on the d-line, a good cb in clements, a promising-but-hardly-great (and also injured) cb in mcgee, aging safeties (one of whom, milloy, looks about done), and a mediocre LB crew with the one good player from that unit trying to come back from about the worst injury in pro football. and damione shelton -- i almost forgot about him!

522204[/snapback]

SCHOEBEL??--very good DE?? when--in high school JV football?? I dont think he could start for a top 20 college team.

[Tcali]

The 1985 team had some pretty good players too & they were the worst team in the league.  A year later the franchise QB arrived & we doubled our victory total to 4.  I looked at an old program I have from the 1985 season and compiled this list The 1985 Bills included:

Jerry Butler, Jim Ritcher, Joe Devlin, Andre Reed, Chris Burkett, Greg Bell, Joe Cribbs, Robb Riddick (IR),Pete Metzelaars, Frank Reich (IR)

Fred Smerlas, Bruce Smith, Martin Bayless, Darryl Talley, Derrick Burroughs, That was 15 solid players, some before their peak years.  They also had some players who were on the downside of good careers: Steve Freeman, Charles Romes, Will Grant, Eugene Marve, Jim Haslett, Lucious Sanford, Joe DeLamielleure, Ken Jones, Ben Williams.  That's 24 decent players.  Among them, there are 4 current Wall of Famers and at least 2 more.  I'd say the team is in similar shape to the 1985 team-the big difference being that there's free agency today & you can fix a team a lot quicker.

522798[/snapback]

WOW---that is an eye opener.That is a loto fo talent for a 2-14 team.Too bad Butler didnt destroy his knees--he would have been a great piece for the first 2 SB years.Also--Smerlas--hmm----what if we had him against the gints in the 90 SB?? maube those 3 and a 3rd yard runs woulda only been 3 yards--and NY wouldnta held the ball forever

[Tcali]

WOW---that is an eye opener.That is a loto fo talent for a 2-14 team.Too bad Butler didnt destroy his knees--he would have been a great piece for the first 2 SB years.Also--Smerlas--hmm----what if we had him against the gints in the 90 SB?? maube those 3 and a 3rd yard runs woulda only been 3 yards--and NY wouldnta held the ball forever

523008[/snapback]

I meant--too bad Butler destroyed his knees...he woulda still been in his prime for the 1st or maybe 2nd SB.