dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor..._len&id=2179550 Observations on the Week 4 action from one AFC pro scout, one AFC "area" scout, and one former personnel director: ... • "It's time for Buffalo to put [quarterback J.P.] Losman on the bench for a game or two. I know, [coach] Mike Mularkey said he's probably going to stick with him, but the kid needs to stand on the sideline and observe, and learn a little bit. He's missing receivers because he's not going through his progressions all the way, and pulling down the ball and running. He'll make some plays with his feet but he's missing too many plays in the passing game. And as one of your (scouts) said last week, you aren't going to win many games throwing for 100 yards in this league." • "On the defensive side, that Buffalo corner [Nate] Clements is one hell of a player. It's going to either cost the Bills a lot of money to keep him off the free agent market next spring, or they're going to have to slap the 'franchise' tag on him. You can't let a guy like that get away." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 • "On the defensive side, that Buffalo corner [Nate] Clements is one hell of a player. It's going to either cost the Bills a lot of money to keep him off the free agent market next spring, or they're going to have to slap the 'franchise' tag on him. You can't let a guy like that get away." 463318[/snapback] With all due respect to the fat man, This is bull sh--. Nate Clements has got to be the most over-hyped cover corner I've ever see play the game. How many INTs does he have this year? Any punt returns? how about penalties.....now THERE's an area he's excelled at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 With all due respect to the fat man, This is bull sh--. Nate Clements has got to be the most over-hyped cover corner I've ever see play the game. How many INTs does he have this year? Any punt returns? how about penalties.....now THERE's an area he's excelled at. 463321[/snapback] clements is the best player on the team. as for the holding calls yesterday, they can be called on pretty much any play. where is the bills pass d this year? how many td passes has clements given up? (zero would be the correct answer.) how many balls have actually been thrown at him? remember that some of those completions to stallworth yesterday were not on him - some LBs were missing their drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 clements is the best player on the team 463341[/snapback] I agree! I also would say Clements it the best CB in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 clements is the best player on the team. as for the holding calls yesterday, they can be called on pretty much any play. where is the bills pass d this year? how many td passes has clements given up? (zero would be the correct answer.) how many balls have actually been thrown at him? remember that some of those completions to stallworth yesterday were not on him - some LBs were missing their drops. 463341[/snapback] So... You want to lock up a HUGE chunk of the salary cap in a guy like Clements rather than spending it on the REAL problems that this team has? Not wise....and why TD has been a failure to date. Too much money on the periphery, not enough on the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 So... You want to lock up a HUGE chunk of the salary cap in a guy like Clements rather than spending it on the REAL problems that this team has? Not wise....and why TD has been a failure to date. Too much money on the periphery, not enough on the core. 463344[/snapback] Exactly, the only way this team gets better is by getting quality players for the trenches, not corners, rb's, wr's, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdubs Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Yes, but your never going to get anywhere if you don't keep your star players and keep picking up trash from other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Eric Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 clements is the best player on the team. as for the holding calls yesterday, they can be called on pretty much any play. 463341[/snapback] Yes, but the penalty extended a drive and helped change any momentum the game had. The best player on the team should not make such bonehead plays. That goes for Fletcher as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 So... You want to lock up a HUGE chunk of the salary cap in a guy like Clements rather than spending it on the REAL problems that this team has? Not wise....and why TD has been a failure to date. Too much money on the periphery, not enough on the core. 463344[/snapback] i'm no defender of donohoe, but what the bills really need to spend their money is difference makers. simply put, they don't have enough. they had 3 -- spikes, clements, and mcgahee. these are guys who can turn games around, who can break games open. for those guys, you need to spend money. other teams that are more successful than the bills realize this and spend the money. even the patriots do this: law before he got hurt, brady, seymour, rodney harrison. as well, the eagles, who are really cheap, gave a very large contract to owens last year (despite his bitching and moaning now) and mcnabb is being paid a ton. that said, i'm pretty confident the bills will keep clements. the bills have some other very good players who aren't really difference makers -- milloy, vincent, sam adams, maybe mcgee in a year or two, evans, and moulds (he used to be one). you can't break the bank for these guys, but all the same you need a good number of them on your team. the bills don't necessarily need difference makers at their three weakest positions - LT, QB, and DT - but they at least need some good players. gandy is a stopgap, and can be moved inside if the bills get a more athletic OT next year. for what it's worth, next year is going to be a great draft for LTs, and if losman can elevate his game to a drew brees-like level, they'll be ok. they should use their first pick on an LT and use their second (or trade up into the late first if need be) on a defensive tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Not wise....and why TD has been a failure to date. Too much money on the periphery, not enough on the core. Unbelievable! Someone that actually knows a little something. I wonder if Teflon Tom would build his home without a foundation. Well, Year 5 of the Teflon Tom regime and his team is built without a foundation. You build your team beginning with the the front 5 on offense and the front four on defense. There is not one player on the offensive line that is close to pro bowl calibre. In fact, I'd put them all in the journeymen category. Mike Williams is easily the most disappointing 1st round pick since Walt Patulski. If the Bills can't get rid of him for salary reasons, maybe thay ought to move him inside where he's covered up. The kid hasn't played a full season yet. On the defensive front, kelsay, Schobel, Denney are average. Sam Adams is a lazy, fat role player who doesn't even play half of the defensive plays and a player that is rendered totally ineffective if there's not a better than average tackle next to him, ie John Randall, Tony Siragusa, Pat Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Unbelievable! Someone that actually knows a little something. I wonder if Teflon Tom would build his home without a foundation. Well, Year 5 of the Teflon Tom regime and his team is built without a foundation. You build your team beginning with the the front 5 on offense and the front four on defense. There is not one player on the offensive line that is close to pro bowl calibre. In fact, I'd put them all in the journeymen category. Mike Williams is easily the most disappointing 1st round pick since Walt Patulski. If the Bills can't get rid of him for salary reasons, maybe thay ought to move him inside where he's covered up. The kid hasn't played a full season yet. On the defensive front, kelsay, Schobel, Denney are average. Sam Adams is a lazy, fat role player who doesn't even play half of the defensive plays and a player that is rendered totally ineffective if there's not a better than average tackle next to him, ie John Randall, Tony Siragusa, Pat Williams. 463377[/snapback] teams that have lousy passing games and/or lousy defensive backfields tend to lose too. look at baltimore these last few years: solid everywhere except for the passing game, and it has killed them. and look at new orleans -- solid on the defensive front seven for about 6 years going but just woeful in the secondary. it kills them every season. that's why they paid a boatload of money to mike mckenzie and why they tried to resurrect dale carter from the dead. basically, it's not that simple. i think fans like the aesthetics of a team that grinds out wins via the running game because they perceive it to be more authentic football. but you can win (and lose) in all sorts of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I agree! I also would say Clements it the best CB in the NFL 463343[/snapback] If Donte Stallworth had better hands, Clements would have been completely toasted on two occaisions yesterday. Clements is good, but not near the legend that he, and some here, seem to think him as. He will not be worth keeping if he is serious about wanting to get paid as much as he seems to think he deserves. Little Terrence McGee outplayed him by a mile yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nate "Fair Catch" Clements? He refuses to return punts because he might get hurt in a contract year. All I have seen him do is fair catch or get out of the way. I belive Fast Freddie was returning punts yesterday instead of Clements. Stallworth ate Clements for lunch and dinner yesterday. Also had a nice penalty on 3rd down to keep a Saints drive going. No INT's this year either. Clements is vastly overrated. Let someone else pay him 10x what he is worth. We need offensive linemen. Very good to great, expensive, offensive linemen. Spend the money on the O-Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis in NC Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 If Donte Stallworth had better hands, Clements would have been completely toasted on two occaisions yesterday. Clements is good, but not near the legend that he, and some here, seem to think him as. He will not be worth keeping if he is serious about wanting to get paid as much as he seems to think he deserves. Little Terrence McGee outplayed him by a mile yesterday. 463474[/snapback] I hate the way Clements puts on his little swagger whenever he makes a friggin' tackle. Like a "we bad, we bad" attitude. I think Clements will be franchised, gaining a 1st round pick to use on the O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 i'm no defender of donohoe, but what the bills really need to spend their money is difference makers. simply put, they don't have enough. they had 3 -- spikes, clements, and mcgahee. these are guys who can turn games around, who can break games open. for those guys, you need to spend money. 463370[/snapback] For $9 million a year, I'd prefer to have two quality O-linemen. You think they wouldn't have made a difference on the 4th and one's we've missed the last two weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 For $9 million a year, I'd prefer to have two quality O-linemen. You think they wouldn't have made a difference on the 4th and one's we've missed the last two weeks? 463519[/snapback] without clements in there, that 4th and 1 would have been rendered irrelevant by the fact that bills would hav been down 27-7. don't ever underestimate the importance of having good cornerbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 without clements in there, that 4th and 1 would have been rendered irrelevant by the fact that bills would hav been down 27-7. don't ever underestimate the importance of having good cornerbacks. 463527[/snapback] A spectacular front 7 can make the lowliest of CBs look good. Ask the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 With all due respect to the fat man, This is bull sh--. Nate Clements has got to be the most over-hyped cover corner I've ever see play the game. How many INTs does he have this year? Any punt returns? how about penalties.....now THERE's an area he's excelled at. 463321[/snapback] You're out of your mind on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 A spectacular front 7 can make the lowliest of CBs look good. Ask the Eagles. 463530[/snapback] ???? lito sheppard and sheldon brown are probably the best cb tandem in the league!! plus they have one of the league's three best safeties in brian dawkins (harrison before he got hurt and reed are his only equals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 A spectacular front 7 can make the lowliest of CBs look good. Ask the Eagles. 463530[/snapback] Are you seriously comparing our Front Seven to the Eagles? Only Spikes and Adams would merit starting serious consideration when compared to their Philly defensive counterpart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You're out of your mind on this one. 463539[/snapback] Really? How many turnovers has he forced this year? How's his tackling looked? This guy wants to be paid a LOT of money. He'd better change games if he wants that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You're out of your mind on this one. 463539[/snapback] Only on this one topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Are you seriously comparing our Front Seven to the Eagles? Only Spikes and Adams would merit starting serious consideration when compared to their Philly defensive counterpart. 463543[/snapback] No, I'm saying that a wise team drafts and builds STRONG front 7s. They put whatever's left for the defense into the backfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Are you seriously comparing our Front Seven to the Eagles? Only Spikes and Adams would merit starting serious consideration when compared to their Philly defensive counterpart. 463543[/snapback] i think he's saying the opposite, but it's equally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 ???? lito sheppard and sheldon brown are probably the best cb tandem in the league!! plus they have one of the league's three best safeties in brian dawkins (harrison before he got hurt and reed are his only equals). 463542[/snapback] Why is that? Could it be that they have a near-flawless front 7 playing in front of them? I guarantee you put those guys on the Bills, they're not nearly what they are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 No, I'm saying that a wise team drafts and builds STRONG front 7s. They put whatever's left for the defense into the backfield. 463548[/snapback] Philly's defense is pretty much equally strong 1 thru 11, but keep ranting. It's a Monday after a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Why is that? Could it be that they have a near-flawless front 7 playing in front of them? I guarantee you put those guys on the Bills, they're not nearly what they are today. 463552[/snapback] At the same time put Nate Clements on THAT team. It works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 At the same time put Nate Clements on THAT team. It works both ways. 463555[/snapback] You just made my point for me. What's the point in throwing money after a guy who's rendered meaningless by the abysmal play of the defensive front? Why not fix the defensive front so that average CBs look like world-beaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 No, I'm saying that a wise team drafts and builds STRONG front 7s. They put whatever's left for the defense into the backfield. 463548[/snapback] I agree, in principle, with what you're saying about building from the lines out...though there are a few positions on the field that are of equal importance: QB and CB. A very good CB can cut the field in half for your D and let a Safety slide over to help the other side more often. That's a huge benefit. A team needs a solid, fast, LB unit, but it can get by without a “stud” in the unit. It’s much more difficult to get by without a stud CB, he can cover a lot of deficiencies. Of course, the question is, “is Clements a stud CB?” Before last year I would have said no, but he played as well as (if not better than) anybody in the league last year. I’m not ready to write him off after four games this year. I agree though, he sucked against the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Philly's defense is pretty much equally strong 1 thru 11, but keep ranting. It's a Monday after a loss. 463554[/snapback] ha ha! that's got me laughing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You just made my point for me. What's the point in throwing money after a guy who's rendered meaningless by the abysmal play of the defensive front? Why not fix the defensive front so that average CBs look like world-beaters? 463557[/snapback] Just think of the prospect of McGee being your top CB next year with the revolving door of Eric King/Kevin Thomas/Jabari Greer/Filmel Johnson on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You just made my point for me. What's the point in throwing money after a guy who's rendered meaningless by the abysmal play of the defensive front? Why not fix the defensive front so that average CBs look like world-beaters? 463557[/snapback] Because Philly's CBs aren't average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I think Lenny Pass-the-donuts gets a commission on Nate's new contract. Nate may be the greatest player ever, but what good is he if he won't play 100% for your team? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Just think of the prospect of McGee being your top CB next year with the revolving door of Eric King/Kevin Thomas/Jabari Greer/Filmel Johnson on the other side. 463580[/snapback] So you're saying the Bills should overpay a guy just because the alternatives are worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 So you're saying the Bills should overpay a guy just because the alternatives are worse? 463601[/snapback] you've got a point. it's always better to be in good cap shape than it is to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 you've got a point. it's always better to be in good cap shape than it is to be good. 463619[/snapback] Read the previous posts. I'm saying spend the money otherwise spent on a guy who's going to be paid MORE than he's worth on the OL and DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Read the previous posts. I'm saying spend the money otherwise spent on a guy who's going to be paid MORE than he's worth on the OL and DL. 463625[/snapback] But right now you're comparing an actual player (Clements) to some arbitrary players that you think might help us more. It's not that simple, you have to see who's actually available, how much he costs and then make the comparison. Just saying, "the money can be spent more wisely" isn't really enough. I'm not for locking up Nate at any cost but I don't think resigning him should just be dismissed either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 So you're saying the Bills should overpay a guy just because the alternatives are worse? 463601[/snapback] It depends on the guy and the alternatives. Case in point: Jonas Jennings - Bills chose not to resign him to a huge salary, because the replacements weren't that far off in talent drop off. If Bills had Jonathan Ogden, they would resign him to a huge salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Yes, but your never going to get anywhere if you don't keep your star players and keep picking up trash from other teams. 463356[/snapback] ...and who makes the decision to bring in other team's trash?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You're out of your mind on this one. 463539[/snapback] And many others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts