This roster is a disaster however…..

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Jackson is playing like crap with no heart, and the coach is a dinosaur.  It’s not complicated. 

I mean I was responding to ‘the ravens were never favored to win anything/have never been considered one of the great afc teams’ which is categorically false 

 

this board gets a little odd to me at times…the original post was twisting the ravens collapse into ‘not a big deal’ as a way to take away from mcd/beane somehow but you’re perfectly entitled to not like mcd/beane without bending logic like that haha ravens were frequently labeled the best team in the afc 

 

We are like 1-2 weeks off from bills fans begging for ravens losses because we were so afraid to see them in the playoffs and now we’re going ‘eh they have never been any good’ 😂

[colin]

45 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think Beane overvalues his draft board vs. the grades given by other teams on certain players which has him consistently trading up and chasing a player and drafting for need. In the 2025 draft, he traded the team's 2 2nd rounders to Chicago for the 9th pick in the 2nd round to pick DT Sanders. He's been a serviceable rotational DT this year.

 

The Bears used those picks on an OT, Ozzy Trapilo, and DT, Shemar Turner. A DT that graded out on par with Sanders. So in theory, staying at 24 and 30 the Bills could have filled the DT need and selected another player at another position. Only 1 other DT went in the 2nd round, at 11 to the 49ers, before the 30th pick. Its hindsight but its also a good example of the value of staying put and not spending premium picks on trade ups in the draft. 

 

ya, i think he likes taking 'clever' risks.  it has worked from time to time, and we end up w more picks than we can roster a lot, so i see why he makes moves.

 

tbh, i think what he did early, big giant moves to get allen, edmunds, and diggs, are the way to go.  it's what the rams do, they had no 1st round picks for like 9 years or something, and were always trying to trade up to draft specific guys they loved (like the DE they got the year before last).  they see it as go for gold, or just take who is where you pick.  

[TFBillsfan]

Hopefully they can get at least two impactful starters out of this next draft. Preferably WR and then S, NCB, LB and DE are all in play. 

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, finn said:

I focus on the negatives, too, but give Beane credit for giving us, in no particular order, Oliver, Bishop, Walker, Hoecht, Bosa, Thompson, Hairston, Kincaid, Hawes, Shakir, Cook, Benford, the entire offensive line, and of course number 17. Most teams would snap these players up in a heartbeat. He's also provided quality role players, filled holes deftly (Prater, Wishnowsky), and, as GunnerBill pointed out, over time built a deep roster, with players like Trubinsky, Knox, Ty Johnson, VDM, Hancock, and the many recycled oldsters on the team. Picking very late in the draft every year (late on the waiver wire doesn't help, either) it's not surprising he's found it hard to find impact players, but he has done an admirable job filling out the roster, overall.

 

The glaring, neon-blinking, jaw-dropping, almost unforgiveable exception of course is wide receiver. That's the big hole on his resume. If he turned out right on either Coleman or Palmer, we would be the Super Bowl favorite, hands down. But he wasn't right. He could not have been more wrong. It's not much of an exaggeration to say he is asking Allen to play with a nice line, quality RBs and TEs--and NO wide receivers at all, aside from Shakir, who is like a little 12-year old asked to support his five younger siblings.

 

Put it this way: The Bills might have the worst set of wide receivers in the league--and still be the best team. That's both a testament to Beane's work as GM and an indictment. 

 

I agree with you, and really don't understand how people look at it much differently.  Beane has done well overall and people really need to compare him to other GMs and not to their own version of perfection.  All GMs make draft mistakes, all teams have some weaknesses.

 

As to the WR problem.  It is more recent than forever - remember at one point we had Diggs/Brown/Beasley. 

The real surfacing of this fiasco has been post-Diggs.  I don't even think Coleman was meant to be a WR1, he just needed to be WR2.    Getting the FA A Cooper was meh.  And one of the worst moves, IMO, was the Palmer deal - was he really thinking that was WR1 material?   Maybe Beane thought it was a stop gap until he did another in-season trade (ala Cooper but only a little better this time)

 

I think Beane might be feeling a little heat to get JA a top tier WR, and that's a good thing (Beane's public admission to trying for Waddle was telling IMO).  I hope the pressure is such that it results in bringing in a proven WR (not the hope of a draft pick).  I think it will, Beane is a smart GM.   Not to get ahead of ourselves but the off-season will be exciting in that regard.

[finn]

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I agree with you, and really don't understand how people look at it much differently.  Beane has done well overall and people really need to compare him to other GMs and not to their own version of perfection.  All GMs make draft mistakes, all teams have some weaknesses.

 

As to the WR problem.  It is more recent than forever - remember at one point we had Diggs/Brown/Beasley. 

The real surfacing of this fiasco has been post-Diggs.  I don't even think Coleman was meant to be a WR1, he just needed to be WR2.    Getting the FA A Cooper was meh.  And one of the worst moves, IMO, was the Palmer deal - was he really thinking that was WR1 material?   Maybe Beane thought it was a stop gap until he did another in-season trade (ala Cooper but only a little better this time)

 

I think Beane might be feeling a little heat to get JA a top tier WR, and that's a good thing (Beane's public admission to trying for Waddle was telling IMO).  I hope the pressure is such that it results in bringing in a proven WR (not the hope of a draft pick).  I think it will, Beane is a smart GM.   Not to get ahead of ourselves but the off-season will be exciting in that regard.

Agree. I'm expecting him to make wide receiver his top priority. I just hope he gives it the same attention he annually gives the defensive line--and has better results. For example, I would love to see picking WR with the first pick AND going after a top free agent AND finding two more receivers later in the draft or free agency. That's how empty the cupboards are now. Yes, we need a starting linebacker and, as always pass rushers, but it's time to see what Josh Allen in his absolute prime can do with the caliber of receivers all his top peers have as a matter of course, instead of the collection of retreads, busts, no-shows and JAGS he has to work with now. 

[Bockeye]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think Beane overvalues his draft board vs. the grades given by other teams on certain players which has him consistently trading up and chasing a player and drafting for need. In the 2025 draft, he traded the team's 2 2nd rounders to Chicago for the 9th pick in the 2nd round to pick DT Sanders. He's been a serviceable rotational DT this year.

 

The Bears used those picks on an OT, Ozzy Trapilo, and DT, Shemar Turner. A DT that graded out on par with Sanders. So in theory, staying at 24 and 30 the Bills could have filled the DT need and selected another player at another position. Only 1 other DT went in the 2nd round, at 11 to the 49ers, before the 30th pick. Its hindsight but its also a good example of the value of staying put and not spending premium picks on trade ups in the draft. 

I think most agree with your take here. The draft is such a hit or miss thing, Beane needs to start using all of our picks and stop freaking using them to trade up. 
 

Beyond Allen, his trade up philosophy has simply not worked out great. 

[Jrb1979]

9 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

I think most agree with your take here. The draft is such a hit or miss thing, Beane needs to start using all of our picks and stop freaking using them to trade up. 
 

Beyond Allen, his trade up philosophy has simply not worked out great. 

I would add, also making talent the focus rather than culture or scheme fit. 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, SunDSolar said:

 

Look McDermott is a good coach but with a average to slightly above average QB his gameplan and in game management would be .500ish at best

 

Give ANY HC an "average to slightly above average QB" and it's likely that HC would be  ".500ish at best".

 

 

3 hours ago, SunDSolar said:

 

The thing is we should have already had a super bowl appearance

 

Jesus look at Josh Allens post season stats, then comeback and tell me why we don't have a AFC championship yet?

 

The reality is that you can't always get what you want.   Ask the millions of people who play Mega Millions and other lotteries.

 

3 hours ago, colin said:

 

i'd state it as a great gm finds a way to find and get those players, but the point stands.

 

i wonder if this is beane being "cheap" with his management of pics or something, or just his kinda fraidy cat mentality of fearing not having great depth, so he doesn't pull the trigger on getting waddle for a 1st in 2026 (+ something else im sure) or whatever.

 

at the time i liked the trade for cooper (who i think went from a ton of talent and not so much passion for the game to less talent and not so much passion for the game) but in retrospect if he coulda gotten adams (maybe it wasn't on the table cuz adam's loves aaron) and moved cap around and not signed palmer or whatever, that woulda put us in a much much better position right now.

 

Who do you consider "a great gm" in the 2000s?

 

2 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The ravens had one of the best offensive outputs in nfl history last year and were the 1 seed in 2023.  Last year they were a road favorite over Buffalo in the divisional.  Gotta firmly disagree with that first point 

 

I think even in the offseason coming into this year the ravens had the best Super Bowl odds out of the afc teams and at worst equal to Buffalo/kc 

People are so weird about the ravens because they think it’s a Lamar vs Josh thing specifically but really it’s that the ravens roster is absolutely stacked.  The falloff there is honestly shocking 

 

I'm with @Chaos about the Ravens:  coaching is the problem with that team.   I don't think there's been a HC who's had less success in relation to the talent on his teams over the last decade than Harbaugh.   His teams have consistently imploded in big games or in the playoffs despite frequently facing teams with noticeably less talent on the field.

[SunDSolar]

27 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Give ANY HC an "average to slightly above average QB" and it's likely that HC would be  ".500ish at best".

 

 

The 49ers have been to two super bowls with average to below average QB play.

 

The Eagles have been to a few with average to above average QBs

 

We have a HOF QB but we couldn't figure out how to stop the Chiefs or Bengals offense in the playoffs. 

 

And when Allen balls out and beats the Chiefs our inept coaching staff doesn't even know you have to force a kick return with 13 seconds left in the game

 

I guess Allen will have to score 50+ to make it to a super bowl with us, because time and time again in the playoffs McDermott has yet to put a gameplan together that stops the opposing offense

 

I hope I eat my words this year and Mcdermott proves me wrong.  I'm crossing my fingers his defense dominates the playoffs.  

 

Lets hope

Edited 40 minutes ago by SunDSolar

[folz]

6 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

Even though Beane has done a terrible job assembling this roster we are still in the hunt for a playoff spot and have a remote chance of finishing first in the East.  Meanwhile teams like Bengals, Ravens and Chiefs are almost eliminated from the playoffs yet people thought those rosters are in much better shape than ours.  Could you imagine if Josh had the weapons Burrow has or we had a defense that can actually generate pressure on the QB?  We are lucky we have Superman on our side but it would be nice if he had a supporting cast like the Superman has with the Justice League 😀

 

If we don’t win the east being the fifth seed won’t be a bad thing Pitt and Balt are terrible and as long as Cincy doesn’t end up winning that division I can see us winning a playoff game on the road.

 

Let me take a slightly different perspective on this incredibly over-used complaint of Josh having to do it all on his own and be Superman (or the roster being a disaster overall).

 

1. Josh is Josh. He is the alien, the unicorn, the generational talent. No matter how talented the team around him is (heck, put him on the '85 Bears), he is still going to do Josh things (like scramble for 16 yards on a 3rd and fifteen). He is still going to run, hurdle, and bulldoze. He is still going to be throwing darts and lasers, throwing passes rolling to his right, nearing the sideline, extending plays. On any team, it will feel like Josh is doing it all...Josh IS the offense. He's just that good. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if he had a stud receiver, but he actually has plenty of weapons overall (with the RBs and TEs included, and the way Cook has been running) and he also has a very good offensive line (ask oft-injured Burrow about offensive line play over his career).

 

2. Going back to the scramble for a first down to seal the victory against the Bengals, let me use a basketball reference. When you have a Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, etc. who do you want taking that last shot? In every sport, it is the star player that you expect to come through for you in crunch time. And yes, game in and game out. Whether it's a pass or a scramble or whatever, I want the ball in 17's hands, just as I would want the ball in Jordan's hands. Every team relies on their star player to win them the big games, make comebacks, hit the last shot, etc. Look at Mahomes and Brady. How many times did they carry their team or bring them back to win at the end of a game? They just didn't do it with much running (for the most part)

 

3. I'm not saying that our roster doesn't need improvement in spots, but you can't just look at WRs alone to compare teams. To say Cincy has a better roster? I'm not so sure. Better receivers? 100%. How about offensive line? How about their defense? Our offense put up 32 on them and we left 11 points on the field (Cook fumble, Ty Johnson snow trip). Are you sure Cincy has a better overall roster? Plus, every team has it's faults. especially this year---that's why no team looks dominant right now (injuries plays its part in that too, of course). It's just each team's weak links are at different positions, or in overall depth, etc. So, some weaknesses might be harder to spot at first glance.

 

4. I find it funny that the games when the running game is on point, so Josh has a quiet day statistically, fans scream that they aren't using Josh properly. We are wasting his talent making him a game manager. And then when they do unleash him, or he is needed to step up to dig the team out of a hole, the same fans cry that Josh has to do everything on his own. I believe that is called cognitive dissonance.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

57 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

I'm with @Chaos about the Ravens:  coaching is the problem with that team.   I don't think there's been a HC who's had less success in relation to the talent on his teams over the last decade than Harbaugh.   His teams have consistently imploded in big games or in the playoffs despite frequently facing teams with noticeably less talent on the field.

Oh yea I think that phrasing is fair and that’s becoming more clear as we go…they are just absolutely stacked and have pretty often been considered the best team in the afc. 
 

the original post though was like ‘the ravens collapse can’t be used as an example of how there are worse coaches than mcd/how it’s hard to be a good team for a long time  because the ravens were never that good’ which i disagreed with the basis of the argument 

 

not trying to get anyone to like mcd but Harbaugh collapsing with that roster is pretty monumental…felt like it was getting swept under the rug to keep the heat on mcd when you can easily just criticize both guys lol 

Edited 10 minutes ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, SunDSolar said:

 

The 49ers have been to two super bowls with average to below average QB play.

 

The Eagles have been to a few with average to above average QBs

 

We have a HOF QB but we couldn't figure out how to stop the Chiefs or Bengals offense in the playoffs. 

 

And when Allen balls out and beats the Chiefs our inept coaching staff doesn't even know you have to force a kick return with 13 seconds left in the game

 

I guess Allen will have to score 50+ to make it to a super bowl with us, because time and time again in the playoffs McDermott has yet to put a gameplan together that stops the opposing offense

 

I hope I eat my words this year and Mcdermott proves me wrong.  I'm crossing my fingers his defense dominates the playoffs.  

 

Lets hope

 

Interesting to pick those teams.  
 

1st:  SF and Philly have been to several superbowls, but guess who beat them in the Super Bowl until last year.  That pesky KC team we couldn’t get by.  That means if those teams had been in the AFC neither makes the SB until last year.  They have a combined record against KC that is worse than Buffalo.

 

2nd:  Both SF and Philly have routinely drafted higher including have top 10 ( and top 3 in SF case) picks and missed the playoffs several times.  And overall their win % and playoff % is worse than Buffalo.

 

The same goes for the Rams (multiple playoff failures under McVay with 2 QBs drafted #1 overall), or Detroit with Campbell.  The NFL is not easy and to get the type of consistent play year over year with only 1 team - KC having a higher win % shows we have a good team and a good coaching staff and even trying to adjust for Allen is difficult because this staff has allowed him to grow and develop in ways many other staffs would not.

 

Look at the job SF did trying to develop Trey Lance or how Philly treats Hurts - McDermott has allowed Josh to be himself and grow and make mistakes, but mostly get better.