Bills o-line scheme and reliance on mesh routes - The Athletic (Mike Sando)

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

8 sacks is simply unacceptable and that doesn't even factor in the other plays Allen took hits on. Before this game, Allen himself mentioned how he got "beat up" in the Houston game last season. I guess Brady decided to draw up an encore performance.  Games like that are how 17 gets injured and has his career shortened.

playing for Brady has shortened Allen's career. imo it's not theoretical anymore, it is actively happening

[Nihilarian]

10 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

8 sacks is simply unacceptable and that doesn't even factor in the other plays Allen took hits on. Before this game, Allen himself mentioned how he got "beat up" in the Houston game last season. I guess Brady decided to draw up an encore performance.  Games like that are how 17 gets injured and has his career shortened.

I agree. I'm hoping that this OC can steal some insight from what the Rams do with Mat Stafford/Sean McVay. Or perhaps see if Peyton Manning is interested in a consulting position to help right away. This stuff can't be happening again and again. To be beaten by the lowly 4-7 Dolphins, Falcons. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

Josh Allen is John Elway, other than Elway got to Superbowls being Elway, but he has the 3 amigos which helped.

 

When Dan Reeves was gone, Shanahan was brought in.  Word has it Elway didnt want to switch from his gun slinger style and convert to WCO.  Further word is he complained to owner Pat Bowlen and Pat said tough!

 

Elway goes on to winning 2 superbowls.   

 

Its time for a change across the board and Josh needs to change and further develop himself.  He is already showing signs of not being as fast or agile and we have all seen guys with playstyles like Josh fall off the cliff quickly.

 

Nothing changes this year, but relying on him to "Do Josh things" as he has in the past, is quickly coming to an end.

Edited 2 hours ago by SoonerBillsFan

[Billsflyer12]

35 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It definitely does. It feels like Beane and McDermott value culture over talent. 

They 100% put culture and vibes ahead of talent.  I also think so does Josh unfortunately.

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Josh Allen is John Elway, other than Elway got to Suoebowls being Elway, but he has the 4 amigos which helped.

 

When Dan Reeves was gone, Shanahan was brought in.  Word has it Elway didnt want to switch from his gun slinger style and convert to WCO.  Further word is he complained to owner Pat Bowlen and Pat said tough!

 

Elway goes on to winning 2 superbowls.   

 

Its time for a change across the board and Josh needs to change amd further develop himself.  He is already showing signs of not being as fast or agile and we have all seen guys with playstyles like Josh fall off the cliff quickly.

 

Nothing changes this year, but relying on him to "Do Josh things" as he has in the past, is quickly coming to an end.

Elway also got to play in a weak AFC in the 80's.

[SoonerBillsFan]

Just now, Low Positive said:

Elway also got to play in a weak AFC in the 80's.

They did pull off a win against the strong Packers for a ring.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Low Positive said:

Elway also got to play in a weak AFC in the 80's.

The funny thing is that the Browns were built like a very good NFC team. They were better than the Broncos. In particular, I think the 1987 Browns would have beaten Washington. They were a better team.

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

They did pull off a win against the strong Packers for a ring.

That was 1997!

[Herc11]

2 hours ago, Sweats said:

The problem is that Brady isn't adjusting and still trying to work concepts that worked last season and either he hasn't realized or accepted that teams have caught up to him or he just doesn't care.

 

You can't tell me that McD is completely void of any O knowledge as the HC, so the blame lies squarely on him, and Brady needs to move along now.

 

And he has shown zero ability to adapt and adjust in-game.

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Josh Allen is John Elway, other than Elway got to Suoebowls being Elway, but he has the 4 amigos which helped.

 

When Dan Reeves was gone, Shanahan was brought in.  Word has it Elway didnt want to switch from his gun slinger style and convert to WCO.  Further word is he complained to owner Pat Bowlen and Pat said tough!

 

Elway goes on to winning 2 superbowls.   

 

Its time for a change across the board and Josh needs to change amd further develop himself.  He is already showing signs of not being as fast or agile and we have all seen guys with playstyles like Josh fall off the cliff quickly.

 

Nothing changes this year, but relying on him to "Do Josh things" as he has in the past, is quickly coming to an end.

Elway, in the end, was similar to Peyton Manning in that he simply no longer had that supreme arm talent at the end.  Elway was helped with an RB by the name of Terrell Davis, who rushed for 1750 yards in 1997, for 2000 yards in 1998, and the Broncos ran the ball more than they threw it in those last two Super Bowls.

Manning, in his last SB, was helped by a #1 defense while their offense was middle of the pack. 

 

The current Buffalo Bills have the right idea with the run game and now need to upgrade their passing attack with more innovative schemes. That power run game is supposed to help protect Allen and not throw him under the bus... 8 SACKS 

[TheBrownBear]

16 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Josh Allen is John Elway, other than Elway got to Superbowls being Elway, but he has the 3 amigos which helped.

 

When Dan Reeves was gone, Shanahan was brought in.  Word has it Elway didnt want to switch from his gun slinger style and convert to WCO.  Further word is he complained to owner Pat Bowlen and Pat said tough!

 

Elway goes on to winning 2 superbowls.   

 

Its time for a change across the board and Josh needs to change and further develop himself.  He is already showing signs of not being as fast or agile and we have all seen guys with playstyles like Josh fall off the cliff quickly.

 

Nothing changes this year, but relying on him to "Do Josh things" as he has in the past, is quickly coming to an end.

Correct. Go watch some of his games from 2018-2021. Current Josh has lost more than a step from the earlier version. It's become apparent that he's no longer quick enough to reliably escape from pressure. 

[Low Positive]

9 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

They did pull off a win against the strong Packers for a ring.

That was late 90's. That actually proves your point that Elway was better when he allowed Shanahan to change how he played. 

[stlbills13]

Everyone sees it except for McDermott and Brady. This is why for as much as I blame Beane, I can't get past the coaching either 

[The Frankish Reich]

28 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Elway, in the end, was similar to Peyton Manning in that he simply no longer had that supreme arm talent at the end.  Elway was helped with an RB by the name of Terrell Davis, who rushed for 1750 yards in 1997, for 2000 yards in 1998, and the Broncos ran the ball more than they threw it in those last two Super Bowls.

Manning, in his last SB, was helped by a #1 defense while their offense was middle of the pack. 

 

The current Buffalo Bills have the right idea with the run game and now need to upgrade their passing attack with more innovative schemes. That power run game is supposed to help protect Allen and not throw him under the bus... 8 SACKS 

True. That's the problem here: we've already done the Elway-Shanahan thing, moving toward a run-first, throw second approach to take some of the burden off Josh. 

I'm in the camp that says that when you have a HOF QB, the solution is always to shift the burden back onto the QB.

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

it’s almost as if talent matters 

Yea. Like the Rams who have drafted incredibly well the past few years and then supplemented that with free agents who can actually play.

[Nihilarian]

Guys, I get it that fans are frustrated with how things are going, especially with the Patriots' 10-2.

 

It's not the drafts or free agents or even the schemes. It's all on the injuries in my view, with so many on the defense, the rookies this past draft class, and the receivers.

 

Just think, if it weren't for all the injuries that the #1 draft pick would have seen preseason and would have been playing since day one. Instead, we have Tre White, who was brought in as a mentor and not a starter. Taylor Rapp is out, and Jordan Poyer is starting. Ed Oliver out for so many games, and we had Michael Hoecht for one game looked to be a game wrecker.... Joey Bosa, playing with one hand, and the list goes on...and on...and on! 

 

Mecole Hardman looked good...then Poof. Shakir DNP, Kincaid DNP, Samuel DNP, seriously, WTF is going on! 

[Old Coot]

2 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Worth a watch!I view it much differently after watching. Beane and Brady have really screwed the pooch!!!

Thanks for this. It confirms what I thought -- most of the sacks were coverage sacks.

 

As an aside, Dawkins looks good on most of the sacks shown. He's beaten on 2 sacks but the rest he holds up pretty well.

 

Not much Brady can do against a talented Texan back 4 especially when injuries have put a bunch of 2d stringers at WR.

 

Brady's use of mesh is what you are supposed to do against man coverage.

 

None of this is to say that Bready is great but you must consider what he has to work with.

 

Interesting, the Chiefs a few years back had a weak WR corps yet succeeded despite that. maybe Brady should look at how the Chiefs did it. 

[Nihilarian]

46 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

True. That's the problem here: we've already done the Elway-Shanahan thing, moving toward a run-first, throw second approach to take some of the burden off Josh. 

I'm in the camp that says that when you have a HOF QB, the solution is always to shift the burden back onto the QB.

What I didn't mention, though, is that while that 1998 Denver team ran more than they threw it, it was because they had such a dominant RB. They also had two 1000-yard receivers in Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, and TE Shannon Sharpe.

 

The Buffalo Bills have some decent talent at receiver, and they... just... can't... stay... healthy!  Freaking snakebit, cursed. Is it conditioning, not enough stretching, IDK.

[quincy]

Going to be interesting for the O-Line, will it be stability or transition? 

 

For example, next year, would we risk an line that consists of RVD-Grable-SVPG-Anderson-Brown?

 

Those 4 guys would have waited at least 2 years for their opportunity to start on a full time basis, plus Lundt as OL6. 

 

Dawkins should go after this year, his play is in decline unfortunately and seems to be becoming a distraction.

 

I would let McGovern and Edwards hit FA. Torrence might be our only trade chip in the offseason and he will be due a big $ contract after his rookie deal.

 

We just don't look that good in pass protection, I believe Morse was well respected in helping call the protections.

 

What should be our strength isn't looking that way at present and we need Coach Kromer to elevate the new talent.   

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Guys, I get it that fans are frustrated with how things are going, especially with the Patriots' 10-2.

 

It's not the drafts or free agents or even the schemes. It's all on the injuries in my view, with so many on the defense, the rookies this past draft class, and the receivers.

 

Just think, if it weren't for all the injuries that the #1 draft pick would have seen preseason and would have been playing since day one. Instead, we have Tre White, who was brought in as a mentor and not a starter. Taylor Rapp is out, and Jordan Poyer is starting. Ed Oliver out for so many games, and we had Michael Hoecht for one game looked to be a game wrecker.... Joey Bosa, playing with one hand, and the list goes on...and on...and on! 

 

Mecole Hardman looked good...then Poof. Shakir DNP, Kincaid DNP, Samuel DNP, seriously, WTF is going on! 

It's pro football, every team has injuries

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Gotta say, the whole approach of "rely on Josh to make the free rusher miss and then manufacture a play" seems like a pretty unsustainable approach. I feel like we saw this vs. Atlanta and early on in the Tampa game too. 

It’s a hilarious approach.

 

about as close of a philosophy of “Josh, please save us” as possible lmao.