Is it the receivers or Brady

[Nihilarian]

14 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Josh throwing for 300+ yards against a bad, injury-ridden secondary doesn't prove anything.  

The Buc were 6-3 same record as Buffalo and most of their injuries were on the offensive side. Miami was 2-7 with a worse defense and more injuries plus they traded away some star defensive players. The Bills were smoked 30-13. 

 

Against the 3-2 Falcons who had around the 20th ranked defense, near last against the run. Josh Palmer was the leading receiver in that game and the Buffalo passing game stunk it up with Allen 180 yards passing, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 4 sacks and under pressure all game from blitzing. Now going into that game everyone knew that Atlanta was a heavy blitzing defense and yet Buffalo looked so unprepared in every facet. Loss 24-14

 

Greg Cosell mentioned on OBL that it was more of the passing scheme, which means Joe Brady. 

[extrahammer]

35 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Lmao or Tampa it could be Tampa is ranked 24th in pass yards allowed per game (233.2), 20th in opponent completion percentage (66.47%). 
 

We’ll see how repeatable this performance turns out to be.

 

I'm not sold, again my point was this was one of the rare games were the majority of our WR's were the healthiest. Doesn't matter what the defense is ranked if our WR's like Palmer and Samuel are always banged up. 

[hondo in seattle]

15 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The Buc were 6-3 same record as Buffalo and most of their injuries were on the offensive side. Miami was 2-7 with a worse defense and more injuries plus they traded away some star defensive players. The Bills were smoked 30-13. 

 

Against the 3-2 Falcons who had around the 20th ranked defense, near last against the run. Josh Palmer was the leading receiver in that game and the Buffalo passing game stunk it up with Allen 180 yards passing, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 4 sacks and under pressure all game from blitzing. Now going into that game everyone knew that Atlanta was a heavy blitzing defense and yet Buffalo looked so unprepared in every facet. Loss 24-14

 

Greg Cosell mentioned on OBL that it was more of the passing scheme, which means Joe Brady. 

 

I heard Cosell criticize our passing scheme which I agree with wholeheartedly.  Cosell also mentioned that we don't have a great receiving corps, which I also agree with.  

 

I'm just saying that the Bucs game doesn't prove anything - not that Brady is a good schemer after all, nor that our receivers are actually good.  (I do, however, believe that our WRs are better than Brady often makes them look).    

[Big Turk]

47 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I heard Cosell criticize our passing scheme which I agree with wholeheartedly.  Cosell also mentioned that we don't have a great receiving corps, which I also agree with.  

 

I'm just saying that the Bucs game doesn't prove anything - not that Brady is a good schemer after all, nor that our receivers are actually good.  (I do, however, believe that our WRs are better than Brady often makes them look).    

 

I think not having Coleman taking up a spot on the field and limiting what they can do with him is a net positive right now for them.  Would not be surprised to see him down again this week. Shavers has the same skillset but is just a better player right now and Davis is far better than Coleman has ever shown, plus is great on scramble drills and has great chemistry with Josh, something Coleman lacks in spades.

Edited 37 minutes ago by Big Turk

[Goin Breakdown]

I forget who, but someone said basically that it's a coincidence that Dabol gets fired and all a sudden Joe Brady opens up the Bills offense. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I forget who, but someone said basically that it's a coincidence that Dabol gets fired and all a sudden Joe Brady opens up the Bills offense. 

 

Dorsey got fired. Daboll left for a HC job with the Giants in the offseason, although there was speculation he would have resigned and went elsewhere if he hadn't gotten it due to tension between him and McD.

 

Dorsey was just terrible in terms of his ability to call games and know how the flow of a game should go...it was just a mish mash of plays called whenever he wanted with no feel for when to call them or why or in what situations they would be most effective or how to set up the defense with playcall combinations and/or plays that looked the same that they showed them earlier in the game that are different, etc

 

Dorsey reminded me when I used to go out to clubs back in the day and you'd go to some clubs where the DJ knew how to get into a flow and maximize everything and take the crowd somewhere and then other clubs the DJ would just play whatever song in any order and completely wreck the flow of the night.  Same songs, just no understanding of how to sequence them properly.  That was Dorsey in NFL terms.

Edited 27 minutes ago by Big Turk

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I think that this Bucs game just proved that the offense doesn't need that expensive #1 WR that so many have been complaining about!

 

Suddenly most Buffalo receivers were getting open and the OC finally started utilizing the RBs in the passing game. Allen 317 yards Passing, 3 TDs and 11 bills players targeted in the Buffalo pass game and 10 caught passes. Shavers led the receivers with 4 catches for 90 yards, 1 TD. 

well I won’t make any conclusions from just one game. The Bucs don’t have the greatest pass defense. They are good at pressure and turnovers. That’s about it. 
 

also, I think we ran a lot of 11 personnel or at least more than normal. They probably weren’t prepared for that. 

[dpberr]

A bit of both.

 

Receivers do need to block at times, and do a good job at it. 

 

Joe Brady needs to be way less predictable with his plays and make those in-game adjustments faster.  For whatever reason he decided to unleash Johnson and Cook as WRs against the Bucs, like the fan base has been screaming to do, and it worked.

 

I hope he considers some pre-snap motion plays for Thursday.  Have to make the Texans defense think a bit.  You don't want them running downhill like the Falcons and Dolphins were.

 

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Dorsey got fired. Daboll left for a HC job with the Giants in the offseason, although there was speculation he would have resigned and went elsewhere if he hadn't gotten it due to tension between him and McD.

 

Dorsey was just terrible in terms of his ability to call games and know how the flow of a game should go...it was just a mish mash of plays called whenever he wanted with no feel for when to call them or why or in what situations they would be most effective or how to set up the defense with playcall combinations and/or plays that looked the same that they showed them earlier in the game that are different, etc

 

Dorsey reminded me when I used to go out to clubs back in the day and you'd go to some clubs where the DJ knew how to get into a flow and maximize everything and take the crowd somewhere and then other clubs the DJ would just play whatever song in any order and completely wreck the flow of the night.  Same songs, just no understanding of how to sequence them properly.  That was Dorsey in NFL terms.

Sorry. I'm saying that Deboll got fired from the Giants and all a sudden Brady opens up the Bills offense as in he's feeling the heat. That's what took from it. 
 

I also like your analogy. Thats good!

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Sorry. I'm saying that Deboll got fired from the Giants and all a sudden Brady opens up the Bills offense as in he's feeling the heat. That's what took from it. 
 

I also like your analogy. Thats good!

 

Ah gotcha...I think maybe both him and McD realized that it is that time of the year that they have to let the MVP be the MVP and just trust that he will get it done. No more time for playing conservatively or safe and trying to protect him as much as possible...just let him go out and be Josh...not surprisingly he responded after a little bit of a rough start by "Going Sicko" as he calls it on them.

[SoCal Deek]

I often wonder, and will defer to those on here with more coaching and scheming experience, how much flexibility there is by Week 11. Are teams still installing new plays at this point? Or is the playbook more or less set? And therefore it’s just a question of play selection not play installation? 

Edited 18 minutes ago by SoCal Deek

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

The Buc were 6-3 same record as Buffalo and most of their injuries were on the offensive side. Miami was 2-7 with a worse defense and more injuries plus they traded away some star defensive players. The Bills were smoked 30-13. 

 

Against the 3-2 Falcons who had around the 20th ranked defense, near last against the run. Josh Palmer was the leading receiver in that game and the Buffalo passing game stunk it up with Allen 180 yards passing, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 4 sacks and under pressure all game from blitzing. Now going into that game everyone knew that Atlanta was a heavy blitzing defense and yet Buffalo looked so unprepared in every facet. Loss 24-14

 

Greg Cosell mentioned on OBL that it was more of the passing scheme, which means Joe Brady. 

Brady went in with the same small ball offense against Miami and Miami stuffed it. It took Brady too long to adjust and they probably practiced nothing in an open offense. Especially one that still featured Coleman who was jogging through lazy routes. 
 

Atlanta game you are right, they weren’t prepared. Atlanta figured out how to use our motion against us and it’s why the protection calls were wrong. Cus they showed one thing and let the motion play out. Josh called protections and the D swapped the other way. Josh got confused. As did Brady on how to adjust to it. 

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I often wonder, and will defer to those on here with more coaching and scheming experience, how much flexibility there is by Week 11. Are teams still installing new plays at this point? Or is the playbook more or less set? And therefore it’s just a question of play selection not play installation? 

I’m not that smart but I’d guess they probably all know all the plays. It’s just a matter of a small selection they game plan with and practice each week based on that plan. 

[Nihilarian]

54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I heard Cosell criticize our passing scheme which I agree with wholeheartedly.  Cosell also mentioned that we don't have a great receiving corps, which I also agree with.  

 

I'm just saying that the Bucs game doesn't prove anything - not that Brady is a good schemer after all, nor that our receivers are actually good.  (I do, however, believe that our WRs are better than Brady often makes them look).    

I agree. I feel that Joe Brady at times is so focused on the run game that he overlooks setting up a good passing scheme. Which requires studying both areas in the opponents weakness in the pass and run. Like Daboll, who was brilliant at setting up a passing scheme per opponent. Brady is brilliant at setting up a running scheme. 

 

We all saw that when the passing scheme wasn't working with Daboll calling the plays at times he had no answer and just kept calling pass plays that weren't working. It seemed like he neglected the run game in many games so the offense was one dimensional. Brady, OTOH, looked great up until this season as against Atlanta/Miami when their defenses stopped the run the Buffalo passing game just wasn't good either. 

 

The difference is that we have seen Joe brady look brilliant at both in some games as in last season against the Lions and Rams. These assistant coaches need to have a plan B or C when the primary game plan gets shut down. My take is he will learn that no matter what the opponents record is they had better have a proper contingency ready.