McD strategy blunders

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Agreed. The reality is that all three decisions were all pretty reasonable options (FG, punt, or go). 

 

 

This ^. There really wasn’t a bad decision in that spot and each have close to equal odds of winning.

 

If we are going to nitpick anything, let’s talk about timeouts. I am tired of seeing him call timeouts on defense before big 3rd and 4th down plays.

 

I understand that he wants to set up the perfect defense and get his team ready, but he doesn’t seem to consider that the opposing team receives that SAME ADVANTAGE when you call a timeout.

 

The 4th and 17 timeout was infuriating. You have them on the ropes and you bailed them out.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

This ^. There really wasn’t a bad decision in that spot and each have close to equal odds of winning.

 

If we are going to nitpick anything, let’s talk about timeouts. I am tired of seeing him call timeouts on defense before big 3rd and 4th down plays.

 

I understand that he wants to set up the perfect defense and get his team ready, but he doesn’t seem to consider that the opposing team receives that SAME ADVANTAGE when you call a timeout.

 

The 4th and 17 timeout was infuriating. You have them on the ropes and you bailed them out.

 

Agree. The other defensive timeouts on Sunday were necessary because we are still having regular lining up issues. But the 4th and 17 one felt unnecessary to me. And it definitely gave them time to dial something creative up. That said.... there were still two major execution errors that led to that play working for the Chiefs. Lots to fix on that play.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. The other defensive timeouts on Sunday were necessary because we are still having regular lining up issues. But the 4th and 17 one felt unnecessary to me. And it definitely gave them time to dial something creative up. That said.... there were still two major execution errors that led to that play working for the Chiefs. Lots to fix on that play.

 

That is a coaching issue too. It's multiple players across Offense, Defense, and Special Teams. And across multiple weeks now. Gotta get it fixed immediately.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That is a coaching issue too. It's multiple players across Offense, Defense, and Special Teams. And across multiple weeks now. Gotta get it fixed immediately.

 

It has mainly been on defense. But I agree it is a coaching issue. McDermott has fixed the 3rd down defense since taking over. But the lining up incorrectly is still happening and it can't happen. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It has mainly been on defense. But I agree it is a coaching issue. McDermott has fixed the 3rd down defense since taking over. But the lining up incorrectly is still happening and it can't happen. 

 

We've had our fair share of illegal formations on Offense too. And even one on special teams, and burned a TO on ST this Sunday with Hancock lined up Offside.

 

Get it together, boys

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We've had our fair share of illegal formations on Offense too. And even one on special teams, and burned a TO on ST this Sunday with Hancock lined up Offside.

 

Get it together, boys

 

The offensive illegal formations I put more directly on players. That isn't confusion about the call or the formation that is just sloppy. The Samuel one last week for example is totally inexcusable. Other than drag his ass off the field and cut him not sure what else there is to do there for the coaches. The defensive ones are about getting the call in and the players knoeing their counter to offensive shifts and this season we have had more lined up incorrectly incidents than I can remember the last 8 years combined. 

[US Egg]

Though it’ll live on in here, that 4th and 17 won’t be as synonymous as wide right or 13 seconds is a relief to me. 
 

Two terms that are forever etched negatively. Please! No more.

Edited 4 hours ago by US Egg

[HamptonBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Guess what……WE WON!!!  😂 

Did you win “13seconds “ , or last year when under Sean, Cook wasn’t on the field for the last 4 drives and we tushpushed our way out of the SB? You won but did you think that kicking the FG from the 40 was correct instead of pooch punting the ball in side the 15 using 5 more seconds? Augie, you’re better than that, don’t defend bad judgement.

[BillytheKid]

I haven’t read through all of the posts so I don’t know if it has been mentioned yet or not and this is page 7. The Bills already have analytics guys that talk to the coaches. 
 

All teams do now. So he already had that before he made the decision to kick a field goal. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

57 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

I'm not sure this logic checks out. You are suggesting kicking a FG, leaves them in the game because it gives Mahomes the ball at the 40 with 22 seconds but punting the ball and giving Mahomes the ball at some hypothetical yard line, is... somehow different? And you use the 4th and 17 debauchery as an example, of them possibly being able to convert a TD. Wouldn't that apply to punting in giving them the ball? In both 'scenarios' you are giving Mahomes the ball... except with actually making the FG, there is no chance for the Chiefs to come back.

By punting the ball inside the 15 yd line you’re using 5 or 6 seconds to down the ball. You’re gaining 25 or more yds of field position and basically making Mahomes go 85yd in under 20 seconds to score a Touchdown instead of 60 that he could get on one play from the 40. It’s not rocket science.

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The decision to kick a FG Sunday was a great decision.  You have a kicker whose record with 50 yard FGs is excellent, and if he makes it game is over.  And if he didn’t then you have to make them go 60 some yards in 20 some seconds against a defense that gave Mahomes fits in the pocket all day.  And did so again when the smart decision was made to rush 5 on the last play so he couldn’t throw a decent Hail Mary.

 

There are criticisms to make about management in the past.  The finish of Sunday’s game is not one of those.  For the life of me I cannot understand why some people around here cannot simply enjoy a big victory against a big rival without getting all negative about this or that.

That's what message boards are for.  Critiquing your team.  And celebrating the win.

 

Sure it was an awesome victory.  Had me standing screaming and pacing.  But the decision making by McDermott in crunch time has always been less than stellar.

 

My problem is all the defensive TO's we seem to take because guys don't know where to line up on defense a lot of the time pre snap.  And I blame McDermott because I think his defense is too complicated for a lot of the younger guys to grasp.  Make it easy, and let them run and hit.  

 

As for kicking the FG, I had no problem with that.  Prater almost made it.  What I did not like at the end was the play calling on offense.  Sending Cook 3 times into the line was not going to work.  We have Josh.  Let him run at least one bootleg.  Great chance of getting the 1st down.  Or let him throw a short pass and get the 1st down.  We never throw short over the middle anymore.  Its always that stupid behind the LOS out pass to Shakir.  Sure an incompletion stops the clock without KC burning a TO.  But Josh was 23 for 26 at that point.  Need more confidence in the passing game.  

 

  

[Augie]

29 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Did you win “13seconds “ , or last year when under Sean, Cook wasn’t on the field for the last 4 drives and we tushpushed our way out of the SB? You won but did you think that kicking the FG from the 40 was correct instead of pooch punting the ball in side the 15 using 5 more seconds? Augie, you’re better than that, don’t defend bad judgement.

 

It’s true, we don’t win every game.

 

I have no problems with the way this game ended. Something could have gone wrong with each scenario. As has been pointed out repeatedly, the odds of a win were very similar regardless of the path chosen. If you want to insist he took the wrong path, I’ll keep reminding you we won this game. The pooch punt could have been blocked or returned for a TD. Nothing is perfect in life. I’m not so emotionally stuck on something that happened 5 years ago that I can’t evaluate what we just witnessed this weekend. 

 

Nobody is perfect, but I’m willing to give credit where it is due. 

[eee1776]

Just enjoy the win. If we won 80 to 0 someone would have something to B word about. 

 

[nedboy7]

17 minutes ago, eee1776 said:

Just enjoy the win. If we won 80 to 0 someone would have something to B word about. 

 

 

Well how many 3rd downs did we give up during the game. Need all the info to start my B word session.  

[Wayne Cubed]

51 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

By punting the ball inside the 15 yd line you’re using 5 or 6 seconds to down the ball. You’re gaining 25 or more yds of field position and basically making Mahomes go 85yd in under 20 seconds to score a Touchdown instead of 60 that he could get on one play from the 40. It’s not rocket science.

So punting the ball inside the 15 is a given is it? And you also used the 4th and 17 as an example. So what’s 25 more yards to Mahomes based on that logic.

[HamptonBillsfan]

15 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

So punting the ball inside the 15 is a given is it? And you also used the 4th and 17 as an example. So what’s 25 more yards to Mahomes based on that logic.

 

15 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

So punting the ball inside the 15 is a given is it? And you also used the 4th and 17 as an example. So what’s 25 more yards to Mahomes based on that logic.

 

15 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

So punting the ball inside the 15 is a given is it? And you also used the 4th and 17 as an example. So what’s 25 more yards to Mahomes based on that logic.

Are you just trying to make believe you don’t know the difference between 85 and 60 yds out with under 20 seconds and no timeouts? That’s it for this back and forth.

[HamptonBillsfan]

59 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

It’s true, we don’t win every game.

 

I have no problems with the way this game ended. Something could have gone wrong with each scenario. As has been pointed out repeatedly, the odds of a win were very similar regardless of the path chosen. If you want to insist he took the wrong path, I’ll keep reminding you we won this game. The pooch punt could have been blocked or returned for a TD. Nothing is perfect in life. I’m not so emotionally stuck on something that happened 5 years ago that I can’t evaluate what we just witnessed this weekend. 

 

Nobody is perfect, but I’m willing to give credit where it is due. 

Every single football talk show host and panelists agreed it was a bad gamble with the prospect of Mahomes with more time and the ball on the 40. How could you say the odds are the same starting at the.15 or the 40 with less time at the  15. There’s only time for2 plays from the 15 if a ball is thrown in the field of play.

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Every single football talk show host and panelists agreed it was a bad gamble with the prospect of Mahomes with more time and the ball on the 40. How could you say the odds are the same starting at the.15 or the 40 with less time at the  15. There’s only time for2 plays from the 15 if a ball is thrown in the field of play.

 

Maybe you should back up and read the thread. I’m not here to summarize things for you, but statistics were given upthread. Don’t pay too much attention to the idiots in the media, especially if it’s on ESPN. 

[Billsatlastin2018]

2 hours ago, BillytheKid said:

I haven’t read through all of the posts so I don’t know if it has been mentioned yet or not and this is page 7. The Bills already have analytics guys that talk to the coaches. 
 

All teams do now. So he already had that before he made the decision to kick a field goal. 

in general, because of #17, I am almost always onside of McD going for it on 4th Downs. So, I am NEVER, EVER agreeing to punt inside the 40 on 4th D, IF the Bills are behind!

 

But, it’s never just that simple equation. 
It involves:

1) Are you up one score (7)?
2) How many TOs does the opposing team have left?

3) Who is the opposing team’s QB?

4) How many seconds are left on the clock?

5) And for the fool who suggested… what about the punt return… you INSTRUCT the punter to aim for the 17 yard line and kick it out of bounds!

 

That reduces time by 5 seconds and gives the ball to Mahomes between the 15 & 20… normally with NO TOs!

 

That was the safest, easiest call in this situation.

It wasn’t made.

Very concerning that McD doesn’t grasp that.

[DrBob806]

7 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

No and no. Not a McD “hater” here.. I recognize he brings a lot of positives to the team as a HC. But time after time his game strategy decisions are terrible, especially in the biggest games. In previous posts I have advocated for a strategy coach, an advisor who sits in the booth, away from the chaos of the sidelines, and is able, based primarily on solid analytics, to present options and recommendations. Take a look at the Bills sidelines during a game. McD clapping, totally engrossed in each play, now calling defenses etc etc. Like every NFL sideline - chaos. The WORST possible environment to make strategic decisions. Every NFL coach could use a strategy coach.BTW, Vrabel in New England employs one.

 

     And he is not getting better at this. Last year, year 7 as HC, he made what ESPN’s Mike Greenberg called “probably not the worst decision we will see this year, but certainly the dumbest” by throwing choosing to throw 3 times at games end from his own one yard line, which handed Houston a win. McD then went on the to make the WORST decision of the year, calling a timeout with less than a minute to go with the Bills at the Rams one yard line. Brady, who was calling the game, reacted immediately, calling out what a horrible decision that was, as it left the Bills no chance to win, other than recovering an onside kick. And of course McD has a history of bad decisions - 13 seconds etc etc

 

Sunday McD strikes again. A strategy coach would have strongly advised against kicking that last field goal. A punt, a punt angled out of bounds ( to prevent any possible return) was the correct strategic decision. It’s virtually impossible for a team drive the ball down the field, 80 + yards, in 22 seconds with zero timeouts. It’s even unlikely a team could even get in position to throw a Hail Mary under those circumstances. Recall the 13 seconds game KC had all three timeouts and only needed a FG. Instead McD blunders again, and Mahomes second last pass was way too close to tying that game. These games are won on the margins, especially playoff games, and his strategic blunders have cost the Bills playoff losses in the past, and I don’t see any improvement in this area.Hire a strategy coach, not to make the final decision but to present best options away from the chaos that is an NFL sideline 
 

 

Jeez, this sounds like a Steelers fan post.

 

McD ain't perfect for sure. Keep in mind the assistant coaches and McD employ strategy sessions during the week, pre season etc.

 

It's up to the players to execute the coaches plan(s).