NOW is Bobby Babich's seat hot?

[Low Positive]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

There actually are 5 rushing, it's hard to see because 1 of them is getting swallowed up in the middle. I have no problem with the blitz call. It worked as intended getting Taron as a free rusher. My issue is, to use Babich's own words, the pass rush is not married to the coverage. Leaving Benford in off coverage on an island against an elite route runner is not how you get Rattler to hold the ball. I mean that's a college level read and anticipation throw that any backup QB is going to hit. Rapp ends up sprinting backwards from the line to cover nobody while Benford is being hung out to dry. This is a 3rd and long that should have been converted and it is 100% on the play call.

I came back to edit my post. Still, the Rush is too late. Rattler has one read on that play, and was easily able to get the ball out. Taron needs to get there faster or they need to send someone up the middle to rush the throw. As it was, it was an easy pitch and catch. 

[finn]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

I don't want to rely on Tre/Strong as our DB pairing anytime soon. But I do like him in his current role so far.

How about Strong/Tre? Strong was just named to his second PFF All-Rookie team of the week with an 89.5 coverage grade. If his name was Hairston we'd all be ecstatic. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And that is despite the Jets being 0-11 on 3rd down. Which really demonstrates how bad the other three games were. 29th in the league last year, 25th this year through four games after never being worse than 19th in the seven seasons of this regime that preceded Babich as DC and being top 10 in five of those seven years. 

 

I don't like the design on third down either when I look at the all22. I'm not sure what the Bills general approach to play 3rd down defense is. I slightly think they are trying to do to much and be so "unpredictable" that they are sacrificing fundamentals for some designs that are either ill conceived or being really poorly executed (or maybe both). If I was in the defensive meeting rooms with Babich I'd be saying you have to simplify your 3rd down call sheet. Get back to some basic fundamentals, be strong at the sticks and then trigger and tackle. 

 

 

Baltimore was 6-11 on third down. As you said the Jets were 0-11 (but 3 for 3 on fourth down), Miami was 10-15 and that helps boots the season numbers and the Saints were 5 for 13. 

 

So the Dolphins game aside teams are 11 for 35 against the Bills on 3rd down. That's 31.4%. That would be good for #2 third down defense in the NFL.

 

Now I'm not saying execution and/or play calling can't be better on 3rd down. They can. But with the small sample size of 4 games, perhaps it's not as bleak as we think and can show improvement.

[Mister Defense]

18 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Baltimore was 6-11 on third down. As you said the Jets were 0-11 (but 3 for 3 on fourth down), Miami was 10-15 and that helps boots the season numbers and the Saints were 5 for 13. 

 

So the Dolphins game aside teams are 11 for 35 against the Bills on 3rd down. That's 31.4%. That would be good for #2 third down defense in the NFL.

 

Now I'm not saying execution and/or play calling can't be better on 3rd down. They can. But with the small sample size of 4 games, perhaps it's not as bleak as we think and can show improvement.

 

Okay, yes on the stats.

 

BUT you have watched the last few games.  I have very little confidence that they are going to en up as even a middle of the road defense on 3rd down.  Do you have a lot of confidence that the positives you point out on 3rd down defense are what we will see going forward-=-and not the awful numbers?

 

To me, they LOOK like a defense about to have an awful year at this again. 

 

And ditto for their run defense.

 

Unless something dramatic is done.

 

Hope you're right in that last point above.

 

I have worked too hard in the off season, and during the season, to not field  a championship contender.  The long hours need to pay off..

 

 

[AZSanta]

On 9/30/2025 at 12:04 PM, Mister Defense said:

Well, after three more games, after I posted an OP asking if Babich was on the hot seat, just before the Jets game, I am definitely moving very quickly now to thinking this dreadful defensive performance we have seen to start the year is now very likely the result of some awful coaching. I want to see where Bills’ fans on here stand now, three weeks later.

 

While I am not 100% convinced that Babich is the fundamental problem as I was completely convinced with dorsey, after almost 1/4 of the season now is in the books the needle is definitely moving rapidly in that direction. 90% maybe? It has been almost a shocking defensive collapse to begin the year.

 

 Do people think that this defense looks better than last year's and is improving weekly?:

 

--Do they think it is showing clear progress early in the season, with their weaknesses being fixed, smoothed out? And their strengths becoming more pronounced?

 

--Are there clear signs that most of the very weak aspects of the defense last year are better now--and getting better as this young season progresses?  For example, their overall 3rd down efficiency, their run defense, their tackling, the pass rush, the play calling?

 

--Is Babich making solid half time adjustments that improve things overall at the start of the 2nd half?

 

--And most importantly, do players look prepared, disciplined, confident and ready--and are they playing to their potential as individuals and as units?

 

 

To me the, and almost across the board, the answers are no. And too often, a resounding, hell no.  

 

In fact, the defense looks more consistently bad this year than last year, making teams like the dolphins and saints look unstoppable for the majority of those games. The dolphins and saints. At HOME  With tens of thousands of loud rabid fans making their life easier.

 

A friend said, well it's because Oliver has not been in there, and Milano, and the suspended guys too.  But that seems really off--the Bills in the past, and the other good teams, readily overcome those types of player losses.  Maybe they show some more gaps in their defense, but they almost never collapse.  And the startling consistency of the weaknesses of this year and last year throw cold water on that, to me. 

 

Watching the last two games, against teams that are not world beaters, and both AT HOME,  both opposing offenses seemed to get better and better against this defense as the games progressed, not worse.  It often seemed like the Bills had no answers, with gaping holes in the secondary, gaping holes against the run, big spacial voids all over the field, all game long, horrible tackling, players looking out of position consistently---and that lost, confused look we too often saw on the faces of offensive players as dorsey 'progressed' in his tenure--and especially in his last year: "What is going on out here? We have no asnwers," sums up those looks.

 

Yes, the Bills are 4-0, but this is not in any way a championship defense--they cannot rely on big splash plays to win games, at the end of games, on defense all year. And not on the road, and not against the top teams. Not consistently. That will not work. All of the team’s hopes for this season, and ours, will be dashed IF this type of defense is allowed to continue. 

 

To me, right now, this really looks like a very very poorly coached defense in almost all respects.  And if I see this, and if I am right, then McDermott knows it, but in a much more specific, detailed manner just how poorly Babich is leading this defense. And ditto for Brandon Beane--does Beane think with the players he provided that the defense should have these kinds of fundamental flaws in so many areas--again?  I would bet the answer is NO. This is why I am convinced that Babich's seat is extremely hot, burning.

 

Why did they look so different against the Jets, prepared, disciplined, tackling well, in position.... I think after awful weeks for the defense, like we saw against the Ravens, or in important games, like the Denver playoff game, McDermott has basically taken over for his young DC.

 

The Bills don't need a great defense to be champions this year, and maybe not even a very good one--just a good one. 

 

But, so far, this defense looks fundamentally flawed.  Awful even, and a great deal of the time.

 

I think Babich's seat is extraordinarily hot now.  A few more games, one?, like we have just seen and McDermott should take over. Our great offense was on a death march under dorsey. Before the season I said he would be gone by Halloween. That season they quiuckly were falling out of the playoff race, and almost there as the season regressed. Don Orlovsky said our offense, with Josh Allen leading it, had become ‘the easiest offense in the NFL to defend’.  But McDermott stepped in, and made the kind of dramatic change most thought he would not make.  Then, in one week, one, the offense looked like world beaters—again--and were that way for the rest of the season.  I think the same thing may very well be needed very soon with Babich. And  it could have the same effects.  They won’t be a great defense, not there yet, with the young players and changes, but I am convinced the defense will show the same kind of improvement that we saw when Brady took over the offense.

 

Even if you are not on board that Babich is the main problem, isn’t it hard  for you to imagine this defense not playing dramatically better with any high quaity defensive coordinator like Schwartz, Spagnuolo—or a McDermott coaching them? To me the answer here is hell yes.

 

 

I think it is a combination of bad coaching along with bad players. This secondary is brutally bad. Rapp looks like he is afraid to hit anyone due to his concussion history. I watched him on a play where Kamara received a pitch out to the right and he was running up to make the play and instead of angling in towards the runner he engaged his blocker. It looked like he could have easily got around the blocker chose to engage the blocker. There is something very wrong with Rapp. Tre has lost a step or 2. Benford has regressed a bit. He is giving up tds like they are Halloween candy. Bishop is decent but not great. They need a full fundamental change in defensive coaching philosophy with the players they have. Whatever they are trying to do it isn't working. I don't think the suspended players make much of a difference, in my opinion. We need to overhaul this defense in the off season.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

I think it is a combination of bad coaching along with bad players. This secondary is brutally bad. Rapp looks like he is afraid to hit anyone due to his concussion history. I watched him on a play where Kamara received a pitch out to the right and he was running up to make the play and instead of angling in towards the runner he engaged his blocker. It looked like he could have easily got around the blocker chose to engage the blocker. There is something very wrong with Rapp. Tre has lost a step or 2. Benford has regressed a bit. He is giving up tds like they are Halloween candy. Bishop is decent but not great. They need a full fundamental change in defensive coaching philosophy with the players they have. Whatever they are trying to do it isn't working. I don't think the suspended players make much of a difference, in my opinion. We need to overhaul this defense in the off season.

Overhaul? No. Buffalo still has a lot of very valuable pieces on defense. Tweaked ? Yes. They need to get bigger in certain areas, but players like Bosa, Oliver, Rousseau, Benford, Bernard, Deone Walker, and Taron Johnson could all start on most NFL teams. The Bills also have 2 gigantic rookie DTs. The jury is still out on Hairston and the rest of the rookie defenders. 

 

I think people are judging a very small sample size. It’s a young defense. Give them time to adjust. Even veteran FAs need time to gel with their teammates. I think they we will see a different defense towards the 2nd half of the season. 

[AZSanta]

6 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Overhaul? No. Buffalo still has a lot of very valuable pieces on defense. Tweaked ? Yes. They need to get bigger in certain areas, but players like Bosa, Oliver, Rousseau, Benford, Bernard, Deone Walker, and Taron Johnson could all start on most NFL teams. The Bills also have 2 gigantic rookie DTs. The jury is still out on Hairston and the rest of the rookie defenders. 

 

I think people are judging a very small sample size. It’s a young defense. Give them time to adjust. Even veteran FAs need time to gel with their teammates. I think they we will see a different defense towards the 2nd half of the season. 

Rousseau hasn't made a play in 4 games. Johnson is getting up there in age. Oliver makes a difference a few games per year. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Okay, yes on the stats.

 

BUT you have watched the last few games.  I have very little confidence that they are going to en up as even a middle of the road defense on 3rd down.  Do you have a lot of confidence that the positives you point out on 3rd down defense are what we will see going forward-=-and not the awful numbers?

 

To me, they LOOK like a defense about to have an awful year at this again. 

 

And ditto for their run defense.

 

Unless something dramatic is done.

 

Hope you're right in that last point above.

 

I have worked too hard in the off season, and during the season, to not field  a championship contender.  The long hours need to pay off..

 

 

I guess I would fall more in the "hopeful" category then the "confident" one. Getting Oliver back will help. Milano back would be a bonus. Still not sure what Hairston will add...but it can't be a huge dropoff from what we have had out there and he has the potential to be a bonus  The PED guys. All areas that we could have an improvement. Will we? That's anyone's guess. 

 

I do think if we see results closer to the Saints game (they converted 5 for 13 on third) we will be ok. If we see more weeks like the Dolphins game even after those guys get back I think we need to see McDermott take back play calling. 

[3rdand12]

It's early in the season. Not an excuse just a reasoning.

 Agree with ChronicA.

This defense will morph by the back half of the Season into something that Offenses will be adjusting for.

[DCofNC]

On 10/1/2025 at 7:47 AM, Nihilarian said:

Lies, damned Lies, and Statistics! 

 

Bills fans have been looking at the stats for the Buffalo run defense, and it's really not good at 31st in yards allowed, 25th in TDs allowed, and 30th in rushing yards per attempt. I get it, as Bills fans are upset about how bad the Buffalo defense looks at times. 

 

Let's take a long, hard look at some games. Against the Ravens, the Bills stopped that vaunted Baltimore run game in the 4th quarter when it mattered most and forced a turnover from the "King" RB that had been running through them like a sieve for most of the game. Buffalo's defense stopped them a few times in that 4th quarter and allowed the offense to make a comeback to win. 25 to 40 was it?

 

Want stats? The NY Jets had 54 net yards passing, and the ToP was 38:21 to 21:39. This game was in MetLife Stadium, too. They got a garbage-time TD by the backup QB Tyrod Taylor. 

 

Against Miami, as the Dolphins were driving to even the score in the 4th quarter and Terrel Bernard intercepts a pass at the Buffalo 17, and the Dolphins' comeback is over. 

 

Then, against the Saints, Buffalo DB Cole Bishop intercepts a pass by NO QB Rattler near the end of the second quarter. Then the last two drives by the Saints ended on downs with Tre White making the stopping tackle short of the first down. Then the Saints' last drive ended with a sack by AJ Epenesa and another sack, which caused a fumble by Joey Bosa. 

 

Yes, the Buffalo Bills defense should be as dominant as their offense...sadly, they are not due to missing some key players due to injuries and some others due to inexperience. Yes, the Buffalo defense has looked bad at times, with players missing tackles, assignments, and having bad gap integrity at times. Then they step up when needed to step up. 

 

What I can say is I think all is not lost, as some injured players will return, and some on suspension will return. Along with some who have limited playing experience, they will step up to make this year's defensive unit a top ten or better. Give Babich time to work his stuff, and if he doesn't...he won't be around for very long.

No matter how you try to spin it, teams have moved at will on this defense all year long and they have made even the worst of teams look like they have a shot to win.  The offense has scored over 30 every game and there hasn’t been a single game where it was a comfortable win.  The defense sucks.  It’s not up for debate, it’s not even questionable.  They are at the bottom of the statistics in everything and they have played trash teams outside of Baltimore.  They were fortunate to get the fumble out of Henry, but the O still had to 41 pts to win, that’s not good, no matter how you spin it.

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Overhaul? No. Buffalo still has a lot of very valuable pieces on defense. Tweaked ? Yes. They need to get bigger in certain areas, but players like Bosa, Oliver, Rousseau, Benford, Bernard, Deone Walker, and Taron Johnson could all start on most NFL teams. The Bills also have 2 gigantic rookie DTs. The jury is still out on Hairston and the rest of the rookie defenders. 

 

I think people are judging a very small sample size. It’s a young defense. Give them time to adjust. Even veteran FAs need time to gel with their teammates. I think they we will see a different defense towards the 2nd half of the season. 

I think you are wearing some reallllllly roses glasses, the talent on this D is weak at best.  Benford is really good, the rest of the team seeks to be average.

[Sierra Foothills]

On 10/1/2025 at 3:11 AM, Pete said:

The back 7 was very confused, and often out of position, against the Saints.  Youth and inexperience is partly to blame.  That is correctable, and that’s on Babich and the coaches to correct that.  Let’s see if D is better buttoned up against the Pats.  If that does not improve by end of season, that’s on Bobby imo 

 

On 10/1/2025 at 3:51 AM, ganesh said:

The real issue with this defense has been in the playoffs.  They come up short. 

 

In the Playoffs, you play the best QBs in the league (with a few exceptions) and for that the Defense has to show up.   They need pass rush,  stopping the run and have takeaways.   If the defense can provide any of these at critical moments then we usually win (Baltimore twice comes to mind).  

 

This year, the team is likely to meet top QBs in Mahomes, Lamar, Herbert in the playoffs and they need to win at least two of them.

The defense has to step up in the Playoffs for the Bills to have a chance to win the Superbowl.

 

On 10/1/2025 at 4:47 AM, Nihilarian said:

What I can say is I think all is not lost, as some injured players will return, and some on suspension will return. Along with some who have limited playing experience, they will step up to make this year's defensive unit a top ten or better. Give Babich time to work his stuff, and if he doesn't...he won't be around for very long.

 

On 10/1/2025 at 5:45 AM, RunTheBall said:

I’ll be concerned if the D doesn’t improve after the bye when we have our dinged up starters and PED boys back. What I’m seeing now is 2 rookies on the D-line, confusion in the back 7, and horrific tackling. All of that is correctable.

 

Babitch isn’t going anywhere this season. At worst, McD will take over the play calling but never admit it.

 

On 10/1/2025 at 8:21 AM, Low Positive said:

I spent the better part of yesterday looking at the all-22. They are doing a bunch of things that I didn't see last year. They are bringing 7 guys to the line and having 3 drop into coverage. On one play, Bosa dropped into coverage. They are also playing with 9 guys in the box more often than they did, where Taron Johnson plays more like a 3rd LB than a CB. And there are most certainly a lot of other things that I don't see. The upshot of it is that they are trying some new things and the guys don't seem comfortable out there. And that does fall on coaching. But the Bills are not unique in this. Last year, the Eagles and Ravens had some new players and scheme elements on defense and it took half a season for them to come together. The 2024 Ravens had a pass defense as bad as our run defense for the early part of the season, but then they made a few minor adjustments and it tightened up.

 

But if what you want is not improvement but your pound of flesh, hope for losses in these next two going into the bye. That'll get Babich fired. 

 

Here's the way I see it, both before and after harvesting some great opinions in this topic:

• There are three groups in this discussion, the believers, the doubters, and the "wait and see" group.
• A fairly large percentage of doubters are panicking about the defense based on only 4 games PLUS the regime's history of poor defensive play in the postseason... Expressed as an equation it's like this:      My final judgement = the first 4 games of this season + the Bills playoff history.
• There are some legitimate concerns but also some legitimate counter arguments and almost no criticism or counter argument of the defense has yet been proven for this season. Some people here want to pass final judgement in week 4 but at the risk of belaboring my point, their opinions are based in fear and history and ignore the upcoming 13 games.
• Nothing the believers or the wait and see'rs can say will reassure the doubters that this year will be different.
• Some of the doubters will be vocal and constant if the defense doesn't improve over the course of the season.
• Some of the doubters will be vocal and constant even if the defense improves over the course of the season.

I'll repeat what I said before the season started (anticipating it would take months for the defense to gel)... it's preposterous to judge the defense after 4 weeks. There are 2 new coaches, 5 new veterans, and 7 defensive rookies who are all trying to grasp a defense that is clearly different than last year's. The testimony of several respected posters in this topic point to a defense that's evolving. Even the type of players the Bills acquired this offseason are different prototypes than they've sought in the past.

 

Everyone should take a chill pill and at least withhold judgement until the week 7 bye... though it would be better to withhold judgement until after the Chiefs game in week 9. The constant drumbeat from the doubters is really tiresome, having taken over several topics and dominating the topic listing. We've reached the point of diminishing returns on this conversation. Let's put this on hold for a few weeks???

 

As far as Babich, in the near term (week to week) he's not on the hot seat. In the context of the 2025 regular season and playoffs, he probably is.

 

On 10/1/2025 at 9:12 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

Haha I thought of you and at least one other when I typed that. Should have said "no normal person" 

 

And yes, Frazier was in the right mold, but the problem was he was running McD's scheme. Need someone like him but with a new scheme.

 

Are you saying that @GunnerBill isn't a normal person?  😊

 

On 10/1/2025 at 10:20 AM, Einstein said:

Spags will send a blitz and play press man at the corners. That means it takes longer for the WR's to break free, and that gives time for the blitz to get there. I LOVE THIS. The downside is - if you have a quick twitch receiver, and they can avoid that press, you have an easy long gain. Unfortunately we dont have that speed WR to beat the press.

 

I'm not disputing anything you're saying here but it's funny how you take a criticism of the Bills defense and turn it into a criticism of the Bills offense.

 

Clearly this is one of the worst 4-0 teams in the history of the NFL. 😆

 

[Mister Defense]

On 9/30/2025 at 12:27 PM, BananaB said:

Babich is just McDs puppet. 

 

If only...

 

Then we would have a defense that looked like a McDermott defense, one of the best defensive coordinators and minds in the league.

 

But I do think this week that may be the case against the patriots, as, like I said, McDermott has likely been pasted to Babich and the defense this week, after almost losing to the aints and the dolphins. And looking startlingly like last year's weak defense.

 

So I hope this week, yes, a puppet. As  McDermott needs to have his hand completely up his puppet's kiester, moving and directing it to match his coaching.

 

 

[Nihilarian]

12 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

If only...

 

Then we would have a defense that looked like a McDermott defense, one of the best defensive coordinators and minds in the league.

 

But I do think this week that may be the case against the patriots, as, like I said, McDermott has likely been pasted to Babich and the defense this week, after almost losing to the aints and the dolphins. And looking startlingly like last year's weak defense.

 

So I hope this week, yes, a puppet. As  McDermott needs to have his hand completely up his puppet's kiester, moving and directing it to match his coaching.

 

The Baltimore Ravens game was almost a loss. Buffalo beat the New Orleans Saints by 12 points and the Miami Dolphins by 10 points; those are not almost losses in my view.

 

Saints QB Spencer Rattler threw for a staggering 18 of 28 for 126 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. 🙃The Dolphins fared better, but not by much, as Tua threw for 22 of 34 for 146 yards.2 TDs 1 INT. 

 

Make no mistake, this is Bobby Babich's defense, and he doesn't miss the tackles or miss assignments, allowing the loss of gap integrity. The players need to make plays while being disciplined, pure and simple. In time, I feel they will get it right and be a top 10 defense or better. 

[FireChans]

16 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

A fairly large percentage of doubters are panicking about the defense based on only 4 games PLUS the regime's history of poor defensive play in the postseason... Expressed as an equation it's like this:      My final judgement = the first 4 games of this season + the Bills playoff history

You are missing last years mediocre defense.

 

We are currently in the worst 20 game stretch of defensive play in this era imo.

[Sierra Foothills]

58 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You are missing last years mediocre defense.

 

We are currently in the worst 20 game stretch of defensive play in this era imo.

 

I'm not missing it.

 

I thought it was clear that I'm saying last year is not relevant based on all of the changes in scheme and in personnel this year.

 

l'm done here... it's all yours.

 

[FireChans]

41 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I'm not missing it.

 

I thought it was clear that I'm saying last year is not relevant based on all of the changes in scheme and in personnel this year.

 

l'm done here... it's all yours.

 

Okay so last year’s defense, Babich’s only full year as a DC, is IRRELEVANT when discussing this year’s defense, Babich’s second year as a DC, because they brought in some consultants and new players.

 

Is last year’s offense is irrelevant to this year’s offense for Joe Brady. After all, we changed some players. 
 

Or maybe, every NFL team in the history of the NFL changes some players every year and while that’s important to note, that doesn’t make their body of work irrelevant?