WGR Discussing McD's job security

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Both OC's ran systems that were dependent on more WR talent. McD does get credit for Brady. What does that change as far as our talent level in the first build vs the second? 

 

So we are adjusting to what our current roster is built.  So what exactly are you criticizing then?

 

The problem is you're over exaggerating our "lack of" offensive talent simply because you want us to build like the Bengals.

 

So if we lack talent, that means coaching must be good then right?  

Even the mighty Chiefs haven't been able to sustain strong offensively with their genius offensive mind and all world QB.  They have averaged 21 and 22 ppg two years in a row and that's Tyrod Taylor level ppg production.  

 

Just because we aren't built like you want doesn't mean it's bad.  We haven't been worse than 6th in the league in scoring 5 straight years and that's incredible but you will find a way to criticize....it's called a narrative.  

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So we are adjusting to what our current roster is built.  So what exactly are you criticizing then?

 

The problem is you're over exaggerating our "lack of" offensive talent simply because you want us to build like the Bengals.

 

So if we lack talent, that means coaching must be good then right?  

Even the mighty Chiefs haven't been able to sustain strong offensively with their genius offensive mind and all world QB.  They have averaged 21 and 22 ppg two years in a row and that's Tyrod Taylor level ppg production.  

 

Just because we aren't built like you want doesn't mean it's bad.  We haven't been worse than 6th in the league in scoring 5 straight years and that's incredible but you will find a way to criticize....it's called a narrative.  

Now do the defense  

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

I never said he had a low coaching acumen. 
I’m on the record many times stating very good but not good enough.
 

If you want to talk winning percentage between the two you have to account for:

What percentage of HC games has McD had Josh as a starter.

What percentage had Schottenheimer had a QB of equal talent as Josh.

It matters

 

The problem is you're discounting McDermott's impact on Josh getting to that elite level of talent.    Having good coaching, and culture is important to young quarterbacks.  That doesnt exist here without McDermott. 

[RoscoeParrish]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

The problem is you're discounting McDermott's impact on Josh getting to that elite level of talent.    Having good coaching, and culture is important to young quarterbacks.  That doesnt exist here without McDermott. 

That all might be true. It probably is true.

 

but does Josh need McDermott now?

[Royale with Cheese]

34 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Now do the defense  

 

What about it? 

[Buffalo Boy]

36 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

The problem is you're discounting McDermott's impact on Josh getting to that elite level of talent.    Having good coaching, and culture is important to young quarterbacks.  That doesnt exist here without McDermott. 

So every other HOF QB got there how? Because McD wasn’t there for them.

Josh’s off season introspection early in his career was more attributable to Daboll and Jordan Palmer. I don’t believe McD had much to do with that at all other than to give it his blessing

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

no because most teams move off from suboptimal coaches in their Super Bowl window

 

Which teams are those?  Certainly not Baltimore even though Harbaugh has struggled to win any playoff games with Lamar.  Certainly not Cincinatti since Zac Taylor's teams have only made the playoffs twice during his six year tenure, including five with Joe Burrow.  After losing in the conference championship in 2022, the Bengals have missed the playoffs twice.  

 

2 hours ago, inkman said:

I find it interesting most responses in this thread pertain to everyone’s opinion of McDermott.  What’s not being talked about and what matters most is what is Terry Pegula’s thinking on the matter. Hence the stadium discussion. The WGR hosts are probably right to point out that the new stadium does give McDermott extra time.  Terry is going to be basking in the glow of his shiny new toy, likely distracting him from scrutinizing his employees. 

 

🤣🤣🤣  Those WGR idiots couldn't find their way out of a darkened room with an open door lit with an EXIT sign.  There is nothing to discuss about Terry Pegula losing patience with Sean McDermott because he's failed to take the Bills to the Super Bowl.  Unless the Bills repeatedly miss the playoffs, McDermott isn't going to be on Pegula's "hot seat".   He's hit the proverbial jackpot with McDermott and Beane, a neophyte NFL owner whose team went from irrelevant bottom feeder to perennial SB contender in only a few seasons while some other NFL owners haven't experienced that kind of success in decades if ever.

 

 

 

Edited August 11 by SoTier

[Mikie2times]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

What about it? 

Last year our primary starters Were Benford, Rapp, Hamlin, Douglas, with Elam as the back up. A real talent haven. Taron has been here for both iterations so lets just focus on the rest. 

 

This year we will have Benford, Rapp, Hamlin, and White with Dane Jackson the back up. We depended on rookies in Max and Bishop to dethrone the trash we brought back. Thus far, not looking good. God helps us if Benford goes down because the flood gates will open. The only other path to improvement off last year is some of this DL help delivering with consistency. Rookie dependent, sort of like the our secondary plan. Bad thing with that is you sort of need to hit a draft pick once in awhile for that strategy to work out. Compared to what we had in the first iteration, the secondary barely has a pulse and even that unit wasn't good enough to avoid a playoff meltdown.

 

I guess the good news is nearly all of these guys have shown injury histories. An old guy I used to work with had this saying and I always hated it. "Hope is not a plan". I found the only actual use for it now. 

[SoTier]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

So every other HOF QB got there how? Because McD wasn’t there for them.

Josh’s off season introspection early in his career was more attributable to Daboll and Jordan Palmer. I don’t believe McD had much to do with that at all other than to give it his blessing

 

Who do you think hired Daboll???  Who do you think hired Dorsey to coach Allen during the season?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

An old guy I used to work with had this saying and I always hated it. "Hope is not a plan". I found the only actual use for it now. 

 

Not commenting on the rest of the discussion but...

 

One of my favorite Herm Edwards sayings: A goal without a plan is just a wish!

[Buffalo Boy]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Who do you think hired Daboll???  Who do you think hired Dorsey to coach Allen during the season?

The same guy who hired Frazier and then hung him out to dry instead of owning his own monumental eff up

The same guy who could only find  Dorsey to Josh Allen?!?! Say it out loud and let it roll around in your skull for a bit. He couldn’t find anyone more qualified than Dorsey?

Yeah, McD, the QB whispering defensive genius…..

Edited August 11 by Buffalo Boy

[Doc Brown]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

So every other HOF QB got there how? Because McD wasn’t there for them.

Josh’s off season introspection early in his career was more attributable to Daboll and Jordan Palmer. I don’t believe McD had much to do with that at all other than to give it his blessing

It was McDermott that hired Daboll and then promoted Brady.  He also made the right move in firing Dorsey even though the Bills statistically were elite under Dorsey.  You have to give him some credit for that at the very least.

[Royale with Cheese]

24 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Last year our primary starters Were Benford, Rapp, Hamlin, Douglas, with Elam as the back up. A real talent haven. Taron has been here for both iterations so lets just focus on the rest. 

 

This year we will have Benford, Rapp, Hamlin, and White with Dane Jackson the back up. We depended on rookies in Max and Bishop to dethrone the trash we brought back. Thus far, not looking good. God helps us if Benford goes down because the flood gates will open. The only other path to improvement off last year is some of this DL help delivering with consistency. Rookie dependent, sort of like the our secondary plan. Bad thing with that is you sort of need to hit a draft pick once in awhile for that strategy to work out. Compared to what we had in the first iteration, the secondary barely has a pulse and even that unit wasn't good enough to avoid a playoff meltdown.

 

I guess the good news is nearly all of these guys have shown injury histories. An old guy I used to work with had this saying and I always hated it. "Hope is not a plan". I found the only actual use for it now. 

 

So you're criticizing that the Front Office hasn't been able to sustain every single unit to be good, year in and year out.  

Name a team in the last 5 years that didn't have a weakness anywhere on their team for those 5 straight years.

[Mikie2times]

12 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It was McDermott that hired Daboll and then promoted Brady.  He also made the right move in firing Dorsey even though the Bills statistically were elite under Dorsey.  You have to give him some credit for that at the very least.

He also promoted Dorsey. It almost seems like no matter what Allen has, he makes it good. 

[Buffalo Boy]

7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It was McDermott that hired Daboll and then promoted Brady.  He also made the right move in firing Dorsey even though the Bills statistically were elite under Dorsey.  You have to give him some credit for that at the very least.

Who was more important to whom. 
Daboll or Josh?

Hiw has Daboll fared without Josh, before and after?

Same question for Brady?

Same for McD.

 

How did T.Brady manage to win a SB without Billy B? Because talent shines and when put in the right situation it wins.

McD, demonstrably, does not dominate in the post season. He does not elevate.

You all can ball wash him till you’re blue in the face. He is not an elite coach. He’s good but he can’t get over the hump. And it is not for lack of repeated opportunities. FACT!

 

[GerstAusGosheim]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

The same guy who hired Frazier and then hung him out to dry instead of owning his own monumental eff up

 

And still hasn't produced a D as good as Fraziers...

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Who was more important to whom. 
Daboll or Josh?

Hiw has Daboll fared without Josh, before and after?

Same question for Brady?

Same for McD.

 

How did T.Brady manage to win a SB without Billy B? Because talent shines and when put in the right situation it wins.

McD, demonstrably, does not dominate in the post season. He does not elevate.

You all can ball wash him till you’re blue in the face. He is not an elite coach. He’s good but he can’t get over the hump. And it is not for lack of repeated opportunities. FACT!

 

You can want him fired now or if he blows it again (that's where I'm at).  However, you can also give him credit for past decisions at the same time.  As for Daboll, he took Daniel Jones to the playoffs to which he should be awarded the Nobel Prize.

[GerstAusGosheim]

 

20 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He also made the right move in firing Dorsey

 

He made the wrong move in giving Dorsey, a first time OC, the keys to the Allen engine. And then made the wrong move again when he waited that long to fire him. Waste of 2 prime seasons.

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So you're criticizing that the Front Office hasn't been able to sustain every single unit to be good, year in and year out.  

Name a team in the last 5 years that didn't have a weakness anywhere on their team for those 5 straight years.

I think what we will field in 2025 and what we did field in 2024 defensively is a few light years removed from the standard you're calling out. From a pure roster standpoint, we have as many bad or average units as good. If that is not the case, how is it possible that we have all this wealth of talent, an MVP QB, and an elite HC and yet..... That is the point most you people seem to miss. Allen compensating for this teams deficiencies and this regime benefiting from it will end up being one of the all time magic acts in sports history.  

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Who was more important to whom. 
Daboll or Josh?

Hiw has Daboll fared without Josh, before and after?

Same question for Brady?

Same for McD.

 

How did T.Brady manage to win a SB without Billy B? Because talent shines and when put in the right situation it wins.

McD, demonstrably, does not dominate in the post season. He does not elevate.

You all can ball wash him till you’re blue in the face. He is not an elite coach. He’s good but he can’t get over the hump. And it is not for lack of repeated opportunities. FACT!

 

Crazy, almost like everything Josh touches just looks better? 

[Buffalo716]

48 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

So every other HOF QB got there how? Because McD wasn’t there for them.

Josh’s off season introspection early in his career was more attributable to Daboll and Jordan Palmer. I don’t believe McD had much to do with that at all other than to give it his blessing

A head coach like Sean McDermott absolutely should get credit for helping to develop Josh Allen 

 

Top down football is the ultimate team game.. and to develop a quarterback it literally takes everybody from the top down 

 

That's like saying Bill belichick doesn't get any credit for helping developing Tom Brady... Keep 100% does

 

Sean McDermott is a world class developer of players... Notice I didn't just say defense because he is around the entire team.. he has a vision, he has stuck to it, and he has a great calming demeanor which goes a long way with developing young players 

 

Mentally Sean has his footprints all over this team and the players.. Josh Allen speaks like McDermott showing McDermott absolutely rubbed off