Keon drops 60 in Damar's celebrity basktball gam

[Don Otreply]

On 6/16/2025 at 2:34 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Glad you have family in the NFL and yes I understand the dynamics.  Robert Edwards career ended with a simple game of flag football, my point is these are million $ properties and I would strongly suggest toe Keon to safeguard his health.

They are not property Roy, they are human beings with jobs…, 

[Augie]

35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

this is true.  lots of players take a bunch of gamers off.  most starters played 80+ games back in the day....without the league reprimanding them or their coaches.

 

 The “load management” games where they sit out bother me. What’s far worse imo is being on the floor and just coasting thru a game, like an actor in a play trying to get to the curtains. I want to see real effort, or I’m not interested. It’s not always pathetic, but it is pathetic far too often.

 

College ball may not be as talented, but they give close to 100% every time I watch. I find it to be better entertainment for that reason, despite the way that world is crumbling off the court. 

[Brand J]

46 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

 The “load management” games where they sit out bother me. What’s far worse imo is being on the floor and just coasting thru a game, like an actor in a play trying to get to the curtains. I want to see real effort, or I’m not interested. It’s not always pathetic, but it is pathetic far too often.

 

College ball may not be as talented, but they give close to 100% every time I watch. I find it to be better entertainment for that reason, despite the way that world is crumbling off the court. 

Actually, this took me by surprise when I went to my first NBA game decades ago. I was used to watching (and playing) college ball where the effort was 100% all the time, sprint here, sprint there, it’s a pretty frenetic, grueling, non-stop pace. The first NBA game I went to in person was Rockets v Knicks back when Allen Houston, Latrell Sprewell and Stevie “Franchise” Francis were on the court. The amount of jogging the players do... I guess it doesn’t really show up on the television, but watching it live? Yeah, the guys definitely coast for most of the game.
 

I haven’t seen a playoff game live, but noticed they still do a fair amount of jogging (especially after made baskets). When a college athlete can hit a high percentage of his jump shots pushing his body on both ends of the court, that’s beyond impressive to me. On the same token, as an NBA player it’s easier to hit a higher percentage of shots conserving that much energy, so the fact you’re already taking the best shooters from college and allowing them to coast/conserve energy, all they’ve gotta do is knock down the shot. If they’re extraordinarily skilled like Curry, they will feast all game. If you want consistent effort, tune in to the G League. It’s closer to college ball than NBA. Those guys hustle like they’re trying to get an NBA contract 😂

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Actually, this took me by surprise when I went to my first NBA game decades ago. I was used to watching (and playing) college ball where the effort was 100% all the time, sprint here, sprint there, it’s a pretty frenetic, grueling, non-stop pace. The first NBA game I went to in person was Rockets v Knicks back when Allen Houston, Latrell Sprewell and Stevie “Franchise” Francis were on the court. The amount of jogging the players do... I guess it doesn’t really show up on the television, but watching it live? Yeah, the guys definitely coast for most of the game.
 

I haven’t seen a playoff game live, but noticed they still do a fair amount of jogging (especially after made baskets). When a college athlete can hit a high percentage of his jump shots pushing his body on both ends of the court, that’s beyond impressive to me. On the same token, as an NBA player it’s easier to hit a higher percentage of shots conserving that much energy, so the fact you’re already taking the best shooters from college and allowing them to coast/conserve energy, all they’ve gotta do is knock down the shot. If they’re extraordinarily skilled like Curry, they will feast all game. If you want consistent effort, tune in to the G League. It’s closer to college ball than NBA. Those guys hustle like they’re trying to get an NBA contract 😂

 

That is an excellent point about the G League and effort. I’m sure there is little loafing going on there. Strangely, it’s an anonymous world to me and associated with nothing I recognize so I don’t care. They don’t have the teams you love and the teams you hate, and they don’t have March Madness.

 

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Actually, this took me by surprise when I went to my first NBA game decades ago. I was used to watching (and playing) college ball where the effort was 100% all the time, sprint here, sprint there, it’s a pretty frenetic, grueling, non-stop pace. The first NBA game I went to in person was Rockets v Knicks back when Allen Houston, Latrell Sprewell and Stevie “Franchise” Francis were on the court. The amount of jogging the players do... I guess it doesn’t really show up on the television, but watching it live? Yeah, the guys definitely coast for most of the game.
 

I haven’t seen a playoff game live, but noticed they still do a fair amount of jogging (especially after made baskets). When a college athlete can hit a high percentage of his jump shots pushing his body on both ends of the court, that’s beyond impressive to me. On the same token, as an NBA player it’s easier to hit a higher percentage of shots conserving that much energy, so the fact you’re already taking the best shooters from college and allowing them to coast/conserve energy, all they’ve gotta do is knock down the shot. If they’re extraordinarily skilled like Curry, they will feast all game. If you want consistent effort, tune in to the G League. It’s closer to college ball than NBA. Those guys hustle like they’re trying to get an NBA contract 😂

I understand what you're saying about the g league and the effort for sure 

 

They are professional basketball players trying to make the biggest league in the world 

 

It has to be high effort.. but I'm just too ingrained in the college basketball and love the traditions and rivalries and hustle 

 

I really don't even watch the NBA except for some playoffs but college basketball is definitely a love

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Most of today's legit future HOFers, other than Curry, are transients.  They hop from "superteam" to another, as the league moved (at the bests players demand) to migrating All-Star teams.  Durant hasn't won a championship since he left GS--6 years ago . Klay Thompson a HOFer?  He's missed a lot of basketball for half of his career.  Draymond Green a HOFer?  He can't score.  He's dirty.  Decent defender. 
 

You have a strange view of this.  Yes- Klay and draymond will both be in the HoF.  I promise.

 

Who cares if players are transient?  Does that mean they aren’t as good?  It means that players have more options and more control of their futures. The great players can go where they want and play with whom they want to play with for the most part.  It’s just difficult to fit 3 max contracts under the cap unless you can draft/acquire bird rights to 1 or 2 of them.

 

but again- saying that there never be another finals with 6 HoFs is just a reckless claim and will prove incorrect.  

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

13 years ago, the Thunder couldn't win a championship with Durant, Harden and Westbrook.  Not once.  Now the Thunder can win it with pretty much 1 guy against a team that has pretty much 1 guy. 
 

 

Who cares if Durant hasn’t won since leaving Gs?  Does it make him any less great?  He’s also 36 years old and still playing very good basketball.  Barkley, and Malone never won one and both tried to latch on to already built teams in order to get themselves one because they couldn’t win one.  Are you saying Durant wasn’t great because he joined a super team to win a title?  The thunder were competing against 3 dynasties in the warriors, heat and spurs for every year.  

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

this is true.  lots of players take a bunch of gamers off.  most starters played 80+ games back in the day....without the league reprimanding them or their coaches.

What does this have to do with the talent level in the nba?  Nothing

 

please provide some insight as to how the league rosters, top to bottom, is lesser now than it used to be. 
 

ai sees it differently and provides examples I’ve already given you:

 

Yes, the consensus is that the overall talent level in the NBA is higher today than it was in the 1980s. This is due to a combination of factors, including improved training methods, a larger global talent pool, and a game that emphasizes different skills. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Improved Training and Conditioning:

Modern NBA players benefit from advanced training techniques, nutrition, and access to better facilities. This leads to players being bigger, faster, and more athletic than their 1980s counterparts. 

Global Talent Pool:

The NBA has become a truly international league, with players from all over the world showcasing their skills. This expands the talent pool and brings in players with unique backgrounds and skill sets. 

Evolution of the Game:

The modern NBA game emphasizes skills like three-point shooting, ball-handling, and passing, which are more prevalent today. While some may argue that certain aspects of the game were more physical in the 80s, the current game requires a broader range of skills from players. 

Role Players:

The skill level of players in the bottom half of the league is significantly higher today. Role players in the 1980s often lacked the versatility and shooting ability of today's role players. 

Scoring Inflation:

While some argue that the increased scoring is due to rule changes and a more favorable offensive environment, it also suggests that players are more skilled at putting the ball in the basket. 

Comparison to the 1980s: 

While the 1980s were a fantastic era for the NBA, with legendary players like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan, the game has evolved. Today's players are not just skilled in one area, but are versatile and able to contribute in many different ways. 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I understand what you're saying about the g league and the effort for sure 

 

They are professional basketball players trying to make the biggest league in the world 

 

It has to be high effort.. but I'm just too ingrained in the college basketball and love the traditions and rivalries and hustle 

 

I really don't even watch the NBA except for some playoffs but college basketball is definitely a love

I hate to say this, the traditions and rivalries are going to be a thing of the past now that kids can portal out and take the biggest pay day on a year to year basis.  I’m happy they are getting paid.  The kids deserve it imo…. But i think it will be at the expense of rivalries and tradition at the higher levels of college basketball.
 

I’ve been a die hard UNC fan since Worthy beat Ewing in the 82 title game.  Watching the players develop over the years while playing against the same players on the other acc teams was what I enjoyed the most.  The rivalries were a school thing….but the players were the ones that made the rivalries so great.  It was so fun to hate on Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, Jwill, Reddick and Woj.  Nowadays, it seems as if 1 out of 2 great players will either go pro after one year or portal out to the highest bidder.  
 

I really hope that I’m wrong for the sake of one of my favorite past times, but the money changes everything.  

[julian]

19 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

NBA players are no different than any other pro athletes... without exception today's pro athletes are better than they were 10-15 years ago and much better than they were 20-25 years ago.

 

It's obvious.

 

I was recently at an AHL hockey game and these guys were noticeably better than the dynastic Edmonton Oilers and New York Islanders teams that I often saw live before my very eyes during the 1980s.

 

It's inarguable.

 

 

Being old, I remember that Randy Moss received scholarship offers from schools that were willing to allow him to play football and basketball. So that probably has something to do with something.

 

 

100% correct.

 

The argument that NBA players are not as good as they used to be is silly.

 

“I was recently at an AHL hockey game and these guys were noticeably better than the dynastic Edmonton Oilers and New York Islanders teams that I often saw live before my very eyes during the 1980s.”

 

 I’m assuming you’re referring to the overall size and speed of the players, which I agree and it’s pretty obvious, and not that you’re implying that an AHL team full of players who’ll never step onto an NHL ice surface could even compete, much less beat 2 of the greatest teams in league history chalked full of HOFers.

[Sierra Foothills]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Top players probably as good.  top to bottom on the roster, I disagree. The 2 big stars in the Finals are Halleburton and SG-A. 

 

The league is never again going to see 2 teams facing off for the championship with a combined 6 HOFers (Celtics/Lakers)  on the court or 4 on the same team at once (mid 90's Bulls). 

 

Your first paragraph ("top to bottom" i.e.  - "depth") seems disconnected from your second paragraph which is talking about HOFers.

 

Regardless, I disagree with you. IMO there's the same ratio of superstars to non-superstars but also, the non-superstars are better than they've ever been.

 

5 hours ago, Augie said:

The NBA is “different” now. With an 82 game season and the huge dollars involved, these guys aren’t giving 100% until the playoffs or some rivalry game.

 

They could play defense on a Tuesday night in Charlotte, but from our experience that would be too much to ask for. We took our kids to a Hornets game (among many others) in return for good behavior during boring things a kid would not appreciate when we traveled, like visiting our friends. It turns out the NBA game was also boring. Just a few minutes in my scrappy little AAU point guard turned to me and said “they’re not even trying!” Yep, last game I’ve attended and one of the last games I even watched, and this goes back a couple decades. 

 

If they cut the season in half, which will obviously never happen, maybe they could be bothered to give a bit more effort during the regular season.  But there is zero doubt in my mind that in general today’s athletes are clearly superior specimens. 

 

Your discussion of effort is fine and I don't disagree but that's the way it's always been in the NBA. I don't think the effort's changed at all but I do think...

 

That the players are better than they've ever been.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

2 hours ago, julian said:

“I was recently at an AHL hockey game and these guys were noticeably better than the dynastic Edmonton Oilers and New York Islanders teams that I often saw live before my very eyes during the 1980s.”

 

 I’m assuming you’re referring to the overall size and speed of the players, which I agree and it’s pretty obvious, and not that you’re implying that an AHL team full of players who’ll never step onto an NHL ice surface could even compete, much less beat 2 of the greatest teams in league history chalked full of HOFers.

 

I'm saying that today's AHL players are better than the NHL's best players from 40 years ago.

 

Puck-handling is much better these days. Controlling the puck with your skates is another way these guys are superior. You're seeing the influence of lacrosse and soccer crossing over into ice hockey.

 

AHL Goaltenders today are much better than Grant Fuhr or Billy Smith.

 

I understand people not agreeing with me but this is what I see.

 

[julian]

24 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I'm saying that today's AHL players are better than the NHL's best players from 40 years ago.

 

Puck-handling is much better these days. Controlling the puck with your skates is another way these guys are superior. You're seeing the influence of lacrosse and soccer crossing over into ice hockey.

 

AHL Goaltenders today are much better than Grant Fuhr or Billy Smith.

 

I understand people not agreeing with me but this is what I see.

 

Yeah, I respect your opinion, I think it’s wild but I’ve had some crazy opinions in my time lol.

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

You have a strange view of this.  Yes- Klay and draymond will both be in the HoF.  I promise.

 

Who cares if players are transient?  Does that mean they aren’t as good?  It means that players have more options and more control of their futures. The great players can go where they want and play with whom they want to play with for the most part.  It’s just difficult to fit 3 max contracts under the cap unless you can draft/acquire bird rights to 1 or 2 of them.

 

but again- saying that there never be another finals with 6 HoFs is just a reckless claim and will prove incorrect.  

 

Who cares if Durant hasn’t won since leaving Gs?  Does it make him any less great?  He’s also 36 years old and still playing very good basketball.  Barkley, and Malone never won one and both tried to latch on to already built teams in order to get themselves one because they couldn’t win one.  Are you saying Durant wasn’t great because he joined a super team to win a title?  The thunder were competing against 3 dynasties in the warriors, heat and spurs for every year.  

 

What does this have to do with the talent level in the nba?  Nothing

 

please provide some insight as to how the league rosters, top to bottom, is lesser now than it used to be. 
 

ai sees it differently and provides examples I’ve already given you:

 

Yes, the consensus is that the overall talent level in the NBA is higher today than it was in the 1980s. This is due to a combination of factors, including improved training methods, a larger global talent pool, and a game that emphasizes different skills. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Improved Training and Conditioning:

Modern NBA players benefit from advanced training techniques, nutrition, and access to better facilities. This leads to players being bigger, faster, and more athletic than their 1980s counterparts. 

Global Talent Pool:

The NBA has become a truly international league, with players from all over the world showcasing their skills. This expands the talent pool and brings in players with unique backgrounds and skill sets. 

Evolution of the Game:

The modern NBA game emphasizes skills like three-point shooting, ball-handling, and passing, which are more prevalent today. While some may argue that certain aspects of the game were more physical in the 80s, the current game requires a broader range of skills from players. 

Role Players:

The skill level of players in the bottom half of the league is significantly higher today. Role players in the 1980s often lacked the versatility and shooting ability of today's role players. 

Scoring Inflation:

While some argue that the increased scoring is due to rule changes and a more favorable offensive environment, it also suggests that players are more skilled at putting the ball in the basket. 

Comparison to the 1980s: 

While the 1980s were a fantastic era for the NBA, with legendary players like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan, the game has evolved. Today's players are not just skilled in one area, but are versatile and able to contribute in many different ways. 

 

Putting Green in the HOF would be like putting Steve Kerr in as a player.  

 

Name the 6 HOFers playing Sunday night.

 

The game has changed to where it's almost unrecognizable.  No defense.  Incessant flopping and begging.  Fundamentals are gone---traveling and carries are allowed parts of the game now. Worst of all, the 3 point play is the basis of every offense.  20 years ago, 17% of teams shots were 3's.  Now every team is over 30%--the average 34%!  And they aren't better at it.  This was perfectly displayed in Game 1 of the Knicks/Celtics game.  Celts took 60 3's.....and hit 15 of them.  It's unwatchable. 

 

I do like the special treat you left:  using "AI" to make your point.  That info is culled from dudes posting stuff on Reddit.  lol.

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Putting Green in the HOF would be like putting Steve Kerr in as a player.  
 

5 time first team defense. 4 time 2nd team defense.  4 time all star.   4 time nba champion. 1x defensive player of the year.  6’7 with the ability to defend centers and every other position  Tremendous facilitator.  He WILL be in the Hall of Fame.  There’s snow doubt in my mind. 

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Name the 6 HOFers playing Sunday night.

Did I say there would be?  No.  Put words in my mouth. You said NEVER.  I said you have no clue what you’re talking about.  

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The game has changed to where it's almost unrecognizable.  No defense.  Incessant flopping and begging.  Fundamentals are gone---traveling and carries are allowed parts of the game now. Worst of all, the 3 point play is the basis of every offense.  20 years ago, 17% of teams shots were 3's.  Now every team is over 30%--the average 34%!  And they aren't better at it.  This was perfectly displayed in Game 1 of the Knicks/Celtics game.  Celts took 60 3's.....and hit 15 of them.  It's unwatchable. 

 

I do like the special treat you left:  using "AI" to make your point.  That info is culled from dudes posting stuff on Reddit.  lol.

So you don’t like that teams realized that it was much more difficult to defend a team that has 4 3 pointer shooters on the court at the same times.  Spread the d out, penetrate, kick and rotate the ball til it gets an open shot.  I get it.  It’s not for everyone.  I hate the flopping as much as anyone.  It sucks.  
 

Yes- it’s a different game now.  That has nothing to do with the added skill and athleticism of the players.  The skill and athleticism is at an all time high.  Old school fundamentals have been replaced with new fundamentals to match the new game that’s being played.  If you can’t play D nowadays, you can’t play.  Defense is being played…. Teams are a lot more difficult to defend due to the rules changing and the evolution of the 3 point shot.  OKC plays great defense and they may win the title with one super star and 1 star (yes, Jalin Williams is a star in the making and he also plays great D) because of how they play team defense.  
 

you don’t like it.  Totally acceptable.  I don’t like it as much as I used to either, but I can still watch the game (I watch nba, college, BIG3 and G-league) and see how the skill level is much greater now than it was in the 80’s.   These kids play WAY more ball nowadays and have much higher levels of training and coaching available to them.  And it shows.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 6/19/2025 at 10:40 PM, Buffalo716 said:

If keon Coleman would potentially get hurt playing in this basketball game 

 

And I don't want to put any bad vibes out there.. I'm literally spitballing 

 

There's been a lot of talk about clauses in contracts recently... Say he tore his ACL going up for a dunk with the bills be able to void a part of his contract

 

Seeing he is still on his rookie deal

 

 

While that may be the case I like seeing him playing hoops in addition to his football workouts because I think there is a compelling argument that athletes who just position-specific or one-sport-specific train tend to become more susceptible to injury than those who play multiple sports that emphasize different movement/flexibility/dexterity etc..

[RoyBatty is alive]

20 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

They are not property Roy, they are human beings with jobs…, 

Cut the drama, yes I know they are human beings but to deny that they are de-facto "property" or assets is hopelessly naive.  

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Cut the drama, yes I know they are human beings but to deny that they are de-facto "property" or assets is hopelessly naive.  

lol, your thought process in broken, by your standards, all employees are property then, you must viscerally dislike unions, shakes head and walks away…,

 

we should discontinue this bit of banter, what say you? 

[Augie]

22 hours ago, NewEra said:

I hate to say this, the traditions and rivalries are going to be a thing of the past now that kids can portal out and take the biggest pay day on a year to year basis.  I’m happy they are getting paid.  The kids deserve it imo…. But i think it will be at the expense of rivalries and tradition at the higher levels of college basketball.
 

I’ve been a die hard UNC fan since Worthy beat Ewing in the 82 title game.  Watching the players develop over the years while playing against the same players on the other acc teams was what I enjoyed the most.  The rivalries were a school thing….but the players were the ones that made the rivalries so great.  It was so fun to hate on Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, Jwill, Reddick and Woj.  Nowadays, it seems as if 1 out of 2 great players will either go pro after one year or portal out to the highest bidder.  
 

I really hope that I’m wrong for the sake of one of my favorite past times, but the money changes everything.  

 

It breaks my heart. I used to follow Xavier basketball almost like the Bills. I’d make an annual trip to Cincinnati, travel to games anywhere close and try to get to their city in the NCAA tournament. Those were some awesome times! 

 

Now I have no idea who’s on the roster, what theirs skills are, where they came from or how many years of eligibility they have left. Eligibility actually means very little, since it’s a series of one year contracts. Every year is like a new pickup game at the YMCA. 

 

Please don’t get me wrong, I think the players should be paid and they should have mobility. I just don’t happen to like the resulting product nearly as much.  They desperately need some guardrails on this mess. 

 

BTW - I spent a week at UNC hoops camp in Chapel Hill every summer for at least 4 years when the kids were young. Awesome times! 

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

5 time first team defense. 4 time 2nd team defense.  4 time all star.   4 time nba champion. 1x defensive player of the year.  6’7 with the ability to defend centers and every other position  Tremendous facilitator.  He WILL be in the Hall of Fame.  There’s snow doubt in my mind. 

Did I say there would be?  No.  Put words in my mouth. You said NEVER.  I said you have no clue what you’re talking about.  

So you don’t like that teams realized that it was much more difficult to defend a team that has 4 3 pointer shooters on the court at the same times.  Spread the d out, penetrate, kick and rotate the ball til it gets an open shot.  I get it.  It’s not for everyone.  I hate the flopping as much as anyone.  It sucks.  
 

Yes- it’s a different game now.  That has nothing to do with the added skill and athleticism of the players.  The skill and athleticism is at an all time high.  Old school fundamentals have been replaced with new fundamentals to match the new game that’s being played.  If you can’t play D nowadays, you can’t play.  Defense is being played…. Teams are a lot more difficult to defend due to the rules changing and the evolution of the 3 point shot.  OKC plays great defense and they may win the title with one super star and 1 star (yes, Jalin Williams is a star in the making and he also plays great D) because of how they play team defense.  
 

you don’t like it.  Totally acceptable.  I don’t like it as much as I used to either, but I can still watch the game (I watch nba, college, BIG3 and G-league) and see how the skill level is much greater now than it was in the 80’s.   These kids play WAY more ball nowadays and have much higher levels of training and coaching available to them.  And it shows.

I think Draymond Green is a borderline Hall of famer

 

You hit on all the good points... True defensive Stalwart

 

But the only pure defensive guy in the Hall of Fame recently in my mind is Ben Wallace.. and Draymond is not on Ben Wallace's level 

 

Ben Wallace might be the best defense if player in the last 30 years 

 

But I do agree he's on the borderline if you even had a little bit more offensive variety he probably be a lock.. now I think he's probably looking at towing the line for years

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

5 time first team defense. 4 time 2nd team defense.  4 time all star.   4 time nba champion. 1x defensive player of the year.  6’7 with the ability to defend centers and every other position  Tremendous facilitator.  He WILL be in the Hall of Fame.  There’s snow doubt in my mind. 

Did I say there would be?  No.  Put words in my mouth. You said NEVER.  I said you have no clue what you’re talking about.  

So you don’t like that teams realized that it was much more difficult to defend a team that has 4 3 pointer shooters on the court at the same times.  Spread the d out, penetrate, kick and rotate the ball til it gets an open shot.  I get it.  It’s not for everyone.  I hate the flopping as much as anyone.  It sucks.  
 

Yes- it’s a different game now.  That has nothing to do with the added skill and athleticism of the players.  The skill and athleticism is at an all time high.  Old school fundamentals have been replaced with new fundamentals to match the new game that’s being played.  If you can’t play D nowadays, you can’t play.  Defense is being played…. Teams are a lot more difficult to defend due to the rules changing and the evolution of the 3 point shot.  OKC plays great defense and they may win the title with one super star and 1 star (yes, Jalin Williams is a star in the making and he also plays great D) because of how they play team defense.  
 

you don’t like it.  Totally acceptable.  I don’t like it as much as I used to either, but I can still watch the game (I watch nba, college, BIG3 and G-league) and see how the skill level is much greater now than it was in the 80’s.   These kids play WAY more ball nowadays and have much higher levels of training and coaching available to them.  And it shows.

 

My point that in Kerr's era, Green doesn't get in.  The bar is lower.  Green played  on a dynasty,  that's the most powerful item on his CV.  Solid defender. But the Warriors win all those rings with a lesser defender in his spot.  As for a facilitator, if he had his 5.6 assists, 2.3 TOs, and 8.9 points on the Knicks, Pelicans, Jazz, etc, he's not a HOFer. 

 

If almost 40% of the shots your opponent is taking are 3's, there's really not much defense to be played.  OKC was trounced in game 6 not because of a suffocating Indy Defense. It's because they made 27% of their 30 3 pointers.  That 91 points despite 30 3 point shots.  Unwatchable--how can you conclude you are watching a much higher skill level??

 

Teams take twice as many 3 pointer than they did even 17-18 years ago--but they are no better at it.   Transition game is cross half court, pull up and launch a 3.  So Offensive rebounds are down.  There's not the post up inside game anymore,  and if guys drive to the basket, then offense do so with impunity as there is little physical  enforcement in the lane--fouls called are down 35% from the Celts/Lakers heyday (yet the flops and whining for calls are at an all time high). 

 

All this science and training and youth game playing...and you still have a 5 team division without a winning record.  An higher overall skill level of player distributed around the league with mostly similar budgets, this should not happen.  5 teams with less than 25 wins.  In 1985, there was 1.  1995 there were 4.   Given an overall significant increase in size, speed and skill, shouldn't the wins be more evenly distributed, i.e. fewer awful teams? All boats lifted? 

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think Draymond Green is a borderline Hall of famer

 

You hit on all the good points... True defensive Stalwart

 

But the only pure defensive guy in the Hall of Fame recently in my mind is Ben Wallace.. and Draymond is not on Ben Wallace's level 

 

Ben Wallace might be the best defense if player in the last 30 years 

 

But I do agree he's on the borderline if you even had a little bit more offensive variety he probably be a lock.. now I think he's probably looking at towing the line for years

 

 

He wasn’t a pure defensive guy. He was a tremendous passer.  He also averaged over 1.25 3’s per playoff game. He wasn’t a great shooter by any means, but he hit clutch shots.   He was a key to 4 championships and a dynasty. Without him, they probably win none.  I watched every game over those years (as Harrison Barnes was my guy).  His defense and leadership in crunch time crucial to them winning titles. 
 

Tony Parker and Manu are in the HoF because they were instrumental in winning championships.
 

draymond will be in.