The One, Big, Beautiful tax bill - that kills the poor and pays the rich

[Roundybout]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

True

 

 

“No, we swear it’s not racism”

[BillsFanNC]

⬆️ 

 

No evidence, sorry.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

17 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

The repubs are no better than the dems.

they're worse in that D's would not give huge tax breaks to the rich nor would they cut programs like medicaid for the poor.

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

they're worse in that D's would not give huge tax breaks to the rich nor would they cut programs like medicaid for the poor.

And likewise would not worry about the deficit or the national debt either.

 

Reality is a real pain in the ass. We're boxed into a corner by the high debt load and obscene levels of government spending. As a nation we're faced with the inevitable decision that we need to cut our spending and standard of living somewhere, someplace, and for someone. But where? To cut the deficit in any meaningful way one or all of the following biggest spending items need to be addressed:

 

1) Social Security

2) Medicare

3) Medicaid

4) Defense

5) Interest Payments on the debt

 

Pick one or pick two of them to address and then fight the special interests that will refuse to budge on any cuts or baked in future fiscal year increases. Address the interest payment problem by cutting spending and running surpluses to pay down debt. Or like Trump is doing, take the easy way out of it by moaning and groaning and complaining until the Fed cuts rates to save the government from borrowing more at higher rates. Who is going to entertain a political fight to cut anything? Nobody yet.

 

The most likely scenario is neither political party will have any interest in addressing the growing national debt until something breaks, causing an "emergency". The the Fed will step in but they can only do so much. Basically, save two of the three items below. Pick two.

 

1) Save the equity markets

2) Save the bond and credit markets

3) Save the dollar.

 

You can't save all three. My guess is they're pick 1 & 2. So at that point everyone can be happy with all-time highs in the stock market and big 401K balances denominated in dollars that don't buy much as each unit of currency is worth very little. Which leads me to conclude getting a good percentage of your assets out of the dollar, like we've seen with this tariff madness, and into things like emerging markets and hard assets, is a good idea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Homelander]

These guys are all noise and no spine - the bill will pass

 

 

[Niagara Bill]

3 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

they're worse in that D's would not give huge tax breaks to the rich nor would they cut programs like medicaid for the poor.

Well maybe not, but they would give it to sanctuary cities,   non citizens education, hc, woke causes, weaken jail laws, etc. They are both the same. 

The dems borrow money to give to non citizens and self declared minorities,  repubs give it to themselves. Neither help the country.

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

7 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Well maybe not, but they would give it to sanctuary cities,   non citizens education, hc, woke causes, weaken jail laws, etc. They are both the same. 

The dems borrow money to give to non citizens and self declared minorities,  repubs give it to themselves. Neither help the country.

The most sensible post you have ever made. Agree.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

And likewise would not worry about the deficit or the national debt either.

 

Reality is a real pain in the ass. We're boxed into a corner by the high debt load and obscene levels of government spending. As a nation we're faced with the inevitable decision that we need to cut our spending and standard of living somewhere, someplace, and for someone. But where? To cut the deficit in any meaningful way one or all of the following biggest spending items need to be addressed:

 

1) Social Security

2) Medicare

3) Medicaid

4) Defense

5) Interest Payments on the debt

 

Pick one or pick two of them to address and then fight the special interests that will refuse to budge on any cuts or baked in future fiscal year increases. Address the interest payment problem by cutting spending and running surpluses to pay down debt. Or like Trump is doing, take the easy way out of it by moaning and groaning and complaining until the Fed cuts rates to save the government from borrowing more at higher rates. Who is going to entertain a political fight to cut anything? Nobody yet.

 

The most likely scenario is neither political party will have any interest in addressing the growing national debt until something breaks, causing an "emergency". The the Fed will step in but they can only do so much. Basically, save two of the three items below. Pick two.

 

1) Save the equity markets

2) Save the bond and credit markets

3) Save the dollar.

 

You can't save all three. My guess is they're pick 1 & 2. So at that point everyone can be happy with all-time highs in the stock market and big 401K balances denominated in dollars that don't buy much as each unit of currency is worth very little. Which leads me to conclude getting a good percentage of your assets out of the dollar, like we've seen with this tariff madness, and into things like emerging markets and hard assets, is a good idea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think we can "cut" medicare and medicaid by going to single payer and insuring everyone at a lower level with more out of pocket costs based on income.  Have businesses pay premiums to single payer program for each employee which is what most do now.  Allow a tiered system where individuals can pay more to get more.  As it is now, Medicaid is a platinum program now that pays 100% of just about everything.  Putting Algorithms in place and strict formularies for meds and procedures/surgery would save billions.  Have a national formulary that negotiates on behalf of the entire system for drugs.  I think cutting defense spending would also make sense.  Seems like we are building up excess capability perhaps to fight with our creditors if put comes to shove.  It's really anti theatrical of the non engagement philosophy of maga to spend so much for offensive capability rather than defense.

[Roundybout]

 

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, Roundybout said:

“No, we swear it’s not racism”

"The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law."

[JDHillFan]

8 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

"The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law."

BHO was quite the bigot. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻

[Roundybout]

9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

"The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law."

Then why is there no policy proposal for streamlining immigration and increasing work visas to make it legal?

[TH3]

8 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

"The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law."

Those who employ them (and bear the fruits of that employment) ...

 

Thats you too 

[Doc Brown]

12 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Then why is there no policy proposal for streamlining immigration and increasing work visas to make it legal?

There should be but logistically it would be really hard to pull off as undocumented immigrant workers would fear being deported.

12 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Those who employ them (and bear the fruits of that employment) ...

 

Thats you too 

Yup.  The illegal immigrants by and large do the jobs that we don't want to and many employers take advantage of paying them under the table (42% of undocumented workers in NYS make below minimum wage).  We also wouldn't have enough workers to fill those spots if every illegal alien was suddenly deported.  It really should be a multifaceted approach of beefing up border security,  increasing punishment on employers that exploit illegal immigrants, and somehow do what @Roundyboutsuggested.  It's not going to happen though.

[Doc Brown]

52 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

BHO was quite the bigot. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻

Shows how far left the Democrats have come in the last 10 or so years.

[TH3]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

There should be but logistically it would be really hard to pull off as undocumented immigrant workers would fear being deported.

Yup.  The illegal immigrants by and large do the jobs that we don't want to and many employers take advantage of paying them under the table (42% of undocumented workers in NYS make below minimum wage).  We also wouldn't have enough workers to fill those spots if every illegal alien was suddenly deported.  It really should be a multifaceted approach of beefing up border security,  increasing punishment on employers that exploit illegal immigrants, and somehow do what @Roundyboutsuggested.  It's not going to happen though.

Bush 2 started raiding meat packing factories early in his first term. It was an epic fail...The businesses pushed back and the whole idea of penalizing employers disappeared. 

 

We need immigrants, we need immigration.... sorry Steven Miller...it just won't work to make America all white...

[Big Blitz]

They decided completely outrageous was better than showing an alternative vision because they don’t have one.  
 

 

 

[SCBills]

Elon’s intentions are good, but virtue in politics is not rewarded and he wants Republicans to take the 20 side of an 80/20 issue. 
 

Americans don’t care about debt. 
 

They should.. but we don’t. 
 

Therefore he wants the slashing of entitlements which would result, likely, in Republican losses over the next 2-4 years .. which, ironically, would lead to even worse handling of the debt. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

They decided completely outrageous was better than showing an alternative vision because they don’t have one.  
 

 

 

except the bill doesn't cut the deficit.  It makes it much worse.

[LDD]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Elon’s intentions are good, but virtue in politics is not rewarded and he wants Republicans to take the 20 side of an 80/20 issue. 
 

Americans don’t care about debt. 
 

They should.. but we don’t. 
 

Therefore he wants the slashing of entitlements which would result, likely, in Republican losses over the next 2-4 years .. which, ironically, would lead to even worse handling of the debt. 

R u for real with that statement? You actually think Elon Musk cares? He’s a shrewd businessman…he’s playing both sides right now. He got his foot in the door and siphoned all the info he needed to give his business an edge while making himself and his liberal, electric vehicles look appealing to MAGA since they were “soooo unfairly attacked” by the liberal hate machine…blah, blah, blah…now he can re-center himself in the public eye and distance himself from Donald because he has what he wanted and by the time anyone realizes the “access” he has provided himself and confronts it, IT WON’T MATTER. 
Well played Elon

You still have them thinking you care about the US deficit for some f-in reason!