Traditional vs. 'Modern Day' X Receiver

[BabyBills]

I'm hoping that those better versed in the schematics of football can help me understand something - whether we should want a traditional or 'modern day' X receiver to replace Diggs.  I suspect in Brady's system that all X receivers will need to: 1) be able to win on all 3 levels of the field and 2) create the separation that Josh likes to see.

 

My understanding is that traditional X receivers use, at minimum, play strength and size to beat press coverage and the leverage employed by CBs.  In this draft, Marvin Harrison Jr., Rome Odunze, Brian Thomas Jr., Adonai Mitchell, and Xaiver Legette seem to fit this mold.

 

I believe 'modern day' X receivers, however, use a combination of speed, suddenness, and/or release packages to do the same.  If this understanding is correct, I'd put Diggs in the 'modern day' mold, as well as draft prospects Malik Nabers, Ladd McConkey, Ricky Pearsall and Roman Wilson. 

 

When I hear folks advocate for Xaiver Legette or Brian Thomas Jr., it's unclear to me if they are saying "traditional X receivers are simply superior to 'modern day' X receivers" or if they think that Legette and Thomas kill two birds with one stone - they can be capable X receivers who can also take the top off of defenses, which is something we are losing, in part, with the loss of Davis.

 

Any light you can share would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[gonzo1105]

In a traditional play structure the “Z” receiver will line up to the offenses strength whether right or left. 
 

The “X” receiver in a traditional sense is on the weak side and usually is more isolated away from coverage. In a traditional sense this WR is more likely to see 1 on 1 opportunities because of this hence the bigger wide body taller person who is more likely to win contested receptions. 
 

I think this is outdated but that’s traditionally how it works 

[mrags]

The more I think about this, the more I think that if the Bills don’t trade up and stay at 28 they will be taking Worthy. 

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

The more I think about this, the more I think that if the Bills don’t trade up and stay at 28 they will be taking Worthy. 

 

 

I really hope not. Small guys like him just tend to end up injured in the NFL.  Obviously everyone is enamored with the speed but I just don’t see him being more than a gadget guy receiver.

[Warriorspikes51]

11 minutes ago, mrags said:

The more I think about this, the more I think that if the Bills don’t trade up and stay at 28 they will be taking Worthy. 

 

I'd be perfectly good with this.... IF we then trade up for Xavier Legette 

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I really hope not. Small guys like him just tend to end up injured in the NFL.  Obviously everyone os enamored with the speed but I just don’t see him being more than a gadget guy receiver.

 

except....he's not a gadget guy.  He runs legit routes and creates a lot of separation with his ability.....

 

 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

13 minutes ago, mrags said:

The more I think about this, the more I think that if the Bills don’t trade up and stay at 28 they will be taking Worthy. 

Cosell said he sees Thomas and AD Mitchell as guys who will develop  into #1 WR's.  BUT.... there is no denying the pure speed of Worthy.  I don't know if we need a true X in the form of size. We just need guys who can beat man coverage, create space and catch the ball consistently. A guy can be 5'11 and 190lbs and do that esp if he has a good Vertical for contested balls. 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Cosell said he sees Thomas and AD Mitchell as guys who will develop  into #1 WR's.  BUT.... there is no denying the pure speed of Worthy.  I don't know if we need a true X in the form of size. We just need guys who can beat man coverage, create space and catch the ball consistently. A guy can be 5'11 and 190lbs and do that esp if he has a good Vertical for contested balls. 

IMO we need both 

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I really hope not. Small guys like him just tend to end up injured in the NFL.  Obviously everyone os enamored with the speed but I just don’t see him being more than a gadget guy receiver.

Generally I agree with you on this. I’ve never been a fan of smaller, skinny WRs. I’m just going by what I think the Bills will do. He’s got the speed and ability to get open on short routes, as well as deep routes. I just feel like they will see that as too good to pass up. 

 

3 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

I'd be perfectly good with this.... IF we then trade up for Xavier Legette 

This is where I’m at with it possibly. I’d be perfectly fine if they took Worthy if they then double dipped fairly early for a bigger, physical WR. 
 

Legette

Polk

McMillan

Walker

Burton

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Generally I agree with you on this. I’ve never been a fan of smaller, skinny WRs. I’m just going by what I think the Bills will do. He’s got the speed and ability to get open on short routes, as well as deep routes. I just feel like they will see that as too good to pass up. 

 

This is where I’m at with it possibly. I’d be perfectly fine if they took Worthy if they then double dipped fairly early for a bigger, physical WR. 
 

Legette

Polk

McMillan

Walker

Burton

 

 

 

Yes, Worthy is maybe the most explosive player in the draft besides possibly Nabers.  Beane and Sean have been focused on explosiveness 

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Cosell said he sees Thomas and AD Mitchell as guys who will develop  into #1 WR's.  BUT.... there is no denying the pure speed of Worthy.  I don't know if we need a true X in the form of size. We just need guys who can beat man coverage, create space and catch the ball consistently. A guy can be 5'11 and 190lbs and do that esp if he has a good Vertical for contested balls. 

Yup. Agree with that. It’s talk like this where hat brings me back to Robert Foster having an amazing half season. Diggs when he first started. John Brown. None of these guys were very big and physical but they made it work with what they had. Diggs is different he’s just an amazing Rt runner. But he was faster a few years ago than he is now. Foster and Brown however were all speed. And it worked. 

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Yes, Worthy is maybe the most explosive player in the draft besides possibly Nabers.  Beane and Sean have been focused on explosiveness 

I like Odunze more than Nabors personally. If he was there after 10 I’d be looking for trade partners. Thomas I like as early as 18-20 but feel like you have ti watch out for Cincy so you’ll have to move up before then at 16 or so imo. 

[GunnerBill]

Yea in the traditional sense it is slightly outdated. I prefer to talk about "outside downfield" receivers - which means guys who can get off press,  have the speed win down the field and make contested catches - and "move" receivers who are more like your traditional Z receiver but who you actively want to move around the formation looking for mismatches. They are ideally a bit more shifty than long strider, good route runners, and have some YAC capability. 

 

That doesn't mean you never run a go route with your move receiver and it doesn't mean you never put your downfield guy in the slot or at flanker (traditional Z)... but in terms of building a WR corps with complimentary skillsets I'm still looking for guys who fit broadly into those categories. 

 

The Bills are a good example of the contradiction in using the old fashioned terms in that Diggs played X a lot for us but he was really the move receiver. Davis was more the outside downfield guy. 

[Warriorspikes51]

putting Worthy and Samuel in motion could be trouble for defenses.... but we also need size. 

[billsbackto81]

30 minutes ago, mrags said:

The more I think about this, the more I think that if the Bills don’t trade up and stay at 28 they will be taking Worthy. 

Worthy is a complimentary piece, not a primary #1 WR you're depending on. Name a #1 "go to" WR in NFL that's 5'11" 165lb 

 

Jmho....

Edited April 8 by billsbackto81

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Worthy is a complimentary piece, not a primary #1 WR you're depending on. Name a #1 "go to" WR in NFL that's 5'11" 165lb 

 

Jmho....

I never said there was. I’m simply expressing what I think Bills brass is thinking 

[Mat68]

Basically, they need a player that can line up outside on the line more than 50% of the time.  Easiest thought process is that a big body wr does it best.  And adds jump ball capabilities.  Reality is there are multiple ways to win outside and size is the least effective way.  
 

Lets look at an extreme example.  Cole Beasley.  He excelled in the slot because of his quickness and route running.  Why he didnt excel outside because after the initial burst he didnt posses the speed to run away from coverage.  Desean Jackson wasnt much bigger but his speed allowed him to operate outside.  Michael Thomas and Marquise Colston where large bodies but similar to Beasley didnt have the speed so where more effective in the slot.  
 

Harrison, Nabers, Udunze, Thomas Jr, Mitchell, and Leggette all have the average or above average Height and weight while also having the speed and explosion to threaten deep.  My concern is getting stuck on size and missing the second part which is explosion and speed.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yup. Agree with that. It’s talk like this where hat brings me back to Robert Foster having an amazing half season. Diggs when he first started. John Brown. None of these guys were very big and physical but they made it work with what they had. Diggs is different he’s just an amazing Rt runner. But he was faster a few years ago than he is now. Foster and Brown however were all speed. And it worked. 

I like Odunze more than Nabors personally. If he was there after 10 I’d be looking for trade partners. Thomas I like as early as 18-20 but feel like you have ti watch out for Cincy so you’ll have to move up before then at 16 or so imo. 

I agree on I liking Odunze more than Nabors. If he is available at 9, then Beane should at least call Chicago.

[LABILLBACKER]

43 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Cosell said he sees Thomas and AD Mitchell as guys who will develop  into #1 WR's.  BUT.... there is no denying the pure speed of Worthy.  I don't know if we need a true X in the form of size. We just need guys who can beat man coverage, create space and catch the ball consistently. A guy can be 5'11 and 190lbs and do that esp if he has a good Vertical for contested balls. 

Unfortunately and historically the 5-11 / 190 guy is far more susceptible to injury like Marguise Goodwin.  Give me all day long the bigger, stronger wr who still has sub 4.4 speed like Thomas or Mitchell. 

Edited April 8 by LABILLBACKER

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Unfortunately and historically the 5-11 / 190 guy is far more susceptible to injury like Marguise Goodwin.  Give me all day long the bigger, stronger wr who still has sub 4.4 speed like Thomas or Mitchell. 

I get what you are saying but Diggs and Jefferson are 6'0 even and they had no issues. and BTW Marguise Goodwin is 5'9" 185 tops as was Beasly.

[mrags]

10 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I get what you are saying but Diggs and Jefferson are 6'0 even and they had no issues. and BTW Marguise Goodwin is 5'9" 185 tops as was Beasly.

 

12 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Unfortunately and historically the 5-11 / 190 guy is far more susceptible to injury like Marguise Goodwin.  Give me all day long the bigger, stronger wr who still has sub 4.4 speed like Thomas or Mitchell. 

Believe me. I’ve never been a fan of the smaller skinnier WR. Hated them going back before Roscoe Parrish who could never stay healthy. My wrists were wider than his calves. I am just thinking what I feel the Bills might do 

[SoonerBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

Believe me. I’ve never been a fan of the smaller skinnier WR. Hated them going back before Roscoe Parrish who could never stay healthy. My wrists were wider than his calves. I am just thinking what I feel the Bills might do 

I'm with you Bills Brother.  Mitchell and Thomas JR are over 6' and at 200lbs which works.  I like Franklin, buy would like him more with  10 more lbs on his frame.