GASabresIUFan Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Ty probably takes us down to around 6.9 The first $1 million of Ty cap hit is already covered by the bottom player currently listed in out top 51. Basically if Ty’s contract is 1.4, he replaces the bottom player out of the top 51. Those players are about 985K at this point. Therefore the impact of Ty’s contract on the cap in this example would be just over 400K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo44 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 So if we’re around $6m under the cap now. This + the $10m from Trey on 6.1 could prob pay for the safety who’s visiting, Clowney and our draft picks. #28 wr, 2nd or 4th on a center and the rest for depth and we’re golden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Turbo44 said: So if we’re around $6m under the cap now. This + the $10m from Trey on 6.1 could prob pay for the safety who’s visiting, Clowney and our draft picks. #28 wr, 2nd or 4th on a center and the rest for depth and we’re golden I don't think we are allowed to go over the cap for a little while and pay for things with Tre's money before we have it. We don't have Tre's money until well after the Draft. We'll have our Draft Picks on the books and will have to address Safety (and probably a rotational DT) well before then. We can probably do that where we're at right now. But we have to wait until after 6/1 to play with Tre's savings. 45 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: The first $1 million of Ty cap hit is already covered by the bottom player currently listed in out top 51. Basically if Ty’s contract is 1.4, he replaces the bottom player out of the top 51. Those players are about 985K at this point. Therefore the impact of Ty’s contract on the cap in this example would be just over 400K. So closer to 11.6 or 11.7 then. Edited March 19 by BillsFanForever19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 16 minutes ago, Turbo44 said: So if we’re around $6m under the cap now. This + the $10m from Trey on 6.1 could prob pay for the safety who’s visiting, Clowney and our draft picks. #28 wr, 2nd or 4th on a center and the rest for depth and we’re golden The Bills have cap space of 7.965 according to Spotrac. This is without the cap savings from Taron's extension. That extension should garner 4-5 in cap space. That puts us somewhere about 12-13 million in cap. Subtract about 2.2 for Johnson and the top 3 draft picks and we still have 10-11 million to spend plus White's 10 million in June. That's plenty of money for DT depth and a possible starting center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 52 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: The Bills have cap space of 7.965 according to Spotrac. This is without the cap savings from Taron's extension. That extension should garner 4-5 in cap space. That puts us somewhere about 12-13 million in cap. Subtract about 2.2 for Johnson and the top 3 draft picks and we still have 10-11 million to spend plus White's 10 million in June. That's plenty of money for DT depth and a possible starting center. Everybody keeps talking about Starting Center. As far as what the media's been told - that's already covered. Connor McGovern is switching to Center. Part of our problem last year is Morse and McGovern didn't play well off each other in the rushing department. Both were good at holding their ground, but neither was great at moving people. So Morse goes out and we put McGovern at Center - where holding your ground is more paramount. David Edwards was a solid starter for years in LA (and under Kromer) before he came here as a backup. Kromer loves him. We re-signed him to bigger money to start in between McGovern and Dawkins. That plan was told to the media who conveyed it to us when Edwards re-signed. Is it possible that plan could change? Sure. But as it stands right now, they seem quite comfortable moving McGovern to Center and returning Edwards to a starting role. I imagine we Draft a Center in the mid rounds for development and insurance. Or maybe sign a lower tier FA for that. But I don't think we're looking for a Starter. Edited March 19 by BillsFanForever19 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 53 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Everybody keeps talking about Starting Center. As far as what the media's been told - that's already covered. Connor McGovern is switching to Center. Part of our problem last year is Morse and McGovern didn't play well off each other in the rushing department. Both were good at holding their ground, but neither was great at moving people. So Morse goes out and we put McGovern at Center - where holding your ground is more paramount. David Edwards was a solid starter for years in LA (and under Kromer) before he came here as a backup. Kromer loves him. We re-signed him to bigger money to start in between McGovern and Dawkins. That plan was told to the media who conveyed it to us when Edwards re-signed. Is it possible that plan could change? Sure. But as it stands right now, they seem quite comfortable moving McGovern to Center and returning Edwards to a starting role. I imagine we Draft a Center in the mid rounds for development and insurance. Or maybe sign a lower tier FA for that. But I don't think we're looking for a Starter. I meant starting safety. Oops! I agree with your post. Rapp, Hamlin and Lewis are the weakest group on the roster. We need another starting safety and quality depth from the draft. 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Looking ahead we started this offseason predicting the teams 2025 cap situation would be around $25M under. As of this AM on Spotrac our 2025 cap number is already $10M OVER. Moving on from Von next year helps. They can restructure Allen again. Plus some roll over will make up for that. But I cannot help but think the regime is tempted to move on from Diggs as a post June 1 cut/trade to free up $19M with the possibility of rolling all or most of it over into 2025. Then they get another $5M in relief the following year. If they feel they can get some rookie production in camp from their first pick, Kalil can flash on the outside to fill Davis' role, and Samuel in the slot it may give them the cajones to roll into the offseason with that group. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Just now, Mango said: Looking ahead we started this offseason predicting the teams 2025 cap situation would be around $25M under. As of this AM on Spotrac our 2025 cap number is already $10M OVER. Moving on from Von next year helps. They can restructure Allen again. Plus some roll over will make up for that. But I cannot help but think the regime is tempted to move on from Diggs as a post June 1 cut/trade to free up $19M with the possibility of rolling all or most of it over into 2025. Then they get another $5M in relief the following year. If they feel they can get some rookie production in camp from their first pick, Kalil can flash on the outside to fill Davis' role, and Samuel in the slot it may give them the cajones to roll into the offseason with that group. I always looked at Diggs deal as most likely a cut/paycut in 2025. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 5 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: I always looked at Diggs deal as most likely a cut/paycut in 2025. So did I. After his restructure he just becomes too expensive to keep all the way through his contract. But going through the numbers it is more advantageous to move on as a post June move this year than it is a new league year next year. New league year for 2025 only saves $5M. It only jacks back up to $18M if we go post June 1 again. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/ I think there might be an error on spotrac since they did their last round of adjustments. They have Diggs as a post June cut saving $500k and trade $19M. It has been consistently $19M for a year. https://web.archive.org/web/20211224005328/https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/stats-valuation/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 18 minutes ago, Mango said: Looking ahead we started this offseason predicting the teams 2025 cap situation would be around $25M under. As of this AM on Spotrac our 2025 cap number is already $10M OVER. Moving on from Von next year helps. They can restructure Allen again. Plus some roll over will make up for that. But I cannot help but think the regime is tempted to move on from Diggs as a post June 1 cut/trade to free up $19M with the possibility of rolling all or most of it over into 2025. Then they get another $5M in relief the following year. If they feel they can get some rookie production in camp from their first pick, Kalil can flash on the outside to fill Davis' role, and Samuel in the slot it may give them the cajones to roll into the offseason with that group. $10 million over is light work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 4 minutes ago, Mango said: So did I. After his restructure he just becomes too expensive to keep all the way through his contract. But going through the numbers it is more advantageous to move on as a post June move this year than it is a new league year next year. New league year for 2025 only saves $5M. It only jacks back up to $18M if we go post June 1 again. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/ I think there might be an error on spotrac since they did their last round of adjustments. They have Diggs as a post June cut saving $500k and trade $19M. It has been consistently $19M for a year. https://web.archive.org/web/20211224005328/https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/stats-valuation/ Oh i meant after 2025 season so the 2026 offseason. These are always estimates just because of all the different bonus structures and whatnot. To move him in 2024 - 4.3M signing bonus prorated over 3 years - 12.9M 3.2M option bonus prorated over 4 years - 12.8M 1.35M Restructure bonus prorated over 4 years - 5.4M 18.5M Base Salary (This piece would be traded) - 18.5M So i see it as 31.1M dead cap total if traded vs. a 27.8M cap hit if kept. If traded as a Post June 1st - you can move it across 2 years. Spotrac has it as 8.8M dead in 2024 and 22.2M dead in 2025 so 19M in savings. I'm just not sure how that would actually help our team. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, Mango said: Looking ahead we started this offseason predicting the teams 2025 cap situation would be around $25M under. As of this AM on Spotrac our 2025 cap number is already $10M OVER. Moving on from Von next year helps. They can restructure Allen again. Plus some roll over will make up for that. But I cannot help but think the regime is tempted to move on from Diggs as a post June 1 cut/trade to free up $19M with the possibility of rolling all or most of it over into 2025. Then they get another $5M in relief the following year. If they feel they can get some rookie production in camp from their first pick, Kalil can flash on the outside to fill Davis' role, and Samuel in the slot it may give them the cajones to roll into the offseason with that group. After watching Beane work his magic, I'm not to worried about 2025 and the cap unless the NFL's income goes down drastically. If you cut Diggs and Miller after this season, you'd take and 38 Million dead cap hit, but save $12 million over the combine $50 cap hit. I'm sure Beane already has a plan in place, but I agree there doesn't seem to be as many obvious places to find cap help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 43 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Oh i meant after 2025 season so the 2026 offseason. These are always estimates just because of all the different bonus structures and whatnot. To move him in 2024 - 4.3M signing bonus prorated over 3 years - 12.9M 3.2M option bonus prorated over 4 years - 12.8M 1.35M Restructure bonus prorated over 4 years - 5.4M 18.5M Base Salary (This piece would be traded) - 18.5M So i see it as 31.1M dead cap total if traded vs. a 27.8M cap hit if kept. If traded as a Post June 1st - you can move it across 2 years. Spotrac has it as 8.8M dead in 2024 and 22.2M dead in 2025 so 19M in savings. I'm just not sure how that would actually help our team. I am not necessarily advocating for it, but I do think the current in season saving with a roll over make it an interesting conversation. Assuming we move on from Diggs post June 1, don't spend a dime, and come into next season with an extra $24M in space, I think that number just about gets you to both a Douglas and Spencer Brown extension (something Beane has been rumored to be interested in). So with that in mind would you be willing to forgo this season without Diggs if it meant locking down a starting corner and right tackle for the next 3-5? I might. I might not. It would take some balls, but at the very least I would have to pause. 6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: After watching Beane work his magic, I'm not to worried about 2025 and the cap unless the NFL's income goes down drastically. If you cut Diggs and Miller after this season, you'd take and 38 Million dead cap hit, but save $12 million over the combine $50 cap hit. I'm sure Beane already has a plan in place, but I agree there doesn't seem to be as many obvious places to find cap help. Agreed. I don't think the roster is maxed out cap wise but we are running out of major cans to kick down the road as well. 57 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: $10 million over is light work. Agreed. But with the next draft class, signings, etc. We will have to clear a lot more of the deck to make room. I think the team is committed to getting younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mango said: So did I. After his restructure he just becomes too expensive to keep all the way through his contract. But going through the numbers it is more advantageous to move on as a post June move this year than it is a new league year next year. New league year for 2025 only saves $5M. It only jacks back up to $18M if we go post June 1 again. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/ I think there might be an error on spotrac since they did their last round of adjustments. They have Diggs as a post June cut saving $500k and trade $19M. It has been consistently $19M for a year. https://web.archive.org/web/20211224005328/https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/stats-valuation/ There is no error. On 3/17 Diggs' $18.5 million salary for 2024 became fully guaranteed. If they had cut him before March 17th with a June 1st designation, they wouldn't have to pay the salary and the cap savings would have been $19 mil. Now, after March 17th, even if they cut him after June 1st they still pay the $18.5 mil salary so it's only $500,000. But if they trade him that guaranteed $18.5 mil salary goes to the new team so it's still $19 mil. Edited March 19 by Tuco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 The Bills have signed Casey Toohill to a one year deal. Pass rush depth signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 (edited) I have added Edwards to the OP. I've been trying to reconcile Spotrac and Over the Cap with little luck. Over the Cap does have us with about 200K more dead cap than Spotrac. So far, this is what I've determined. Spotrac has an additional approx $1 mill in the adjusted cap figure higher than Over the Cap. They also have 100 K higher listed cap hits by allocating a small amount to the cap for players under contract who aren't in the top 51. Over the cap seems to allocate a dead cap amount for these players as their Dead Cap number is about 200K higher than Spotrac's. No idea which site is utilizing the correct formula for adjusted cap and dead cap. Edited March 20 by GASabresIUFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Why is this thread no longer pinned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) Spotrac has us at 8.54m under - without accounting for Mike Edwards, Casey Toohill, and Ty Johnson or the Taron Johnson savings. Edwards seems to be about 3. If we assume Toohill (being a DE) is about 2.5 (just a guess) and Johnson is minimum - that would be about 6.5 estimate. If we then push down the 3 lowest contracts to fit them into the Top 51 - that would make that 3.75m in accounting for those three (the difference between 6.5 and the 2.75 for the lowest 3 contracts). So a rough estimate right now has us at about 4.79m under, without the Taron re-structure being accounted for. Reports are about a 4.1m savings for Taron. So that would have us at roughly 8.9m under right now, by my calculations. Edited March 21 by BillsFanForever19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 Clapp added to OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 3/19/2024 at 7:01 AM, Mango said: Looking ahead we started this offseason predicting the teams 2025 cap situation would be around $25M under. As of this AM on Spotrac our 2025 cap number is already $10M OVER. Moving on from Von next year helps. They can restructure Allen again. Plus some roll over will make up for that. But I cannot help but think the regime is tempted to move on from Diggs as a post June 1 cut/trade to free up $19M with the possibility of rolling all or most of it over into 2025. Then they get another $5M in relief the following year. If they feel they can get some rookie production in camp from their first pick, Kalil can flash on the outside to fill Davis' role, and Samuel in the slot it may give them the cajones to roll into the offseason with that group. I'm convinced we'll be giving Von, Dawson and Stef all June 1st cuts next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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