Tommy Callahan Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 18, 2023 Author Share Posted December 18, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Hahahahaha. . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 18, 2023 Author Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 (edited) A degree from harvard is worth more than the net worth of 90% of the board. learn how the world really works, morons. And if u wanna be a SCOTUS judge, you better have some ivy in your past. On 12/14/2023 at 12:00 PM, All_Pro_Bills said: I don't think that's the issue. I think you're missing or avoiding something very obvious. I think the issue is there's a clear and obvious double standard in effect. When some fringe left nutjob says something controversial the contention is "free speech" but when some fringe right nutjob says something controversial the contention is "hate speech". I'm not advocating for censorship of freedom of expression for anybody, including this university president, but it's clear the rules of the game are not being applied evenly across the board. In this case, the left being in control of the institution refuses to self-regulate themselves while not giving others the same courtesy, waaa...try being any woman with a substandard degree in the workplace. Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 The fact is the majority are laughing/appalled at the ignorance coming out of higher education. and the ignorance trying to defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 The more I look at this dude the more I think he looks like a broad. What a mess. OIP.jfif 2 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: A degree from harvard is worth more than the net worth of 90% of the board. learn how the world really works, morons. And if u wanna be a SCOTUS judge, you better have some ivy in your past. The interesting part to me about this is that if one were to look at Harvard as a corporation, historically it would represent many of the things liberal voters often complain about. High barrier to entry, exorbitant cost, lily white for decades, a highly developed alumni network that favored croneyism/tribalism over virtually everything else, and an exorbitant endowment funded by powerful people of and for the benefit of other powerful people. We agree on this, Fergie, that's the real world. It's just kind of odd that liberals are down with all that, up to and including picking up the tab on the taxpayer dime. 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: waaa...try being any woman with a substandard degree in the workplace. What does this mean? What constitutes a substandard degree? Field of study? School? And..."any" woman? There's more here, and we might yet find some more common ground... 2 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said: yes but I am not sure why harvard is struggling so hard to stay relevant when the meatball desantis' of the world (yale/ harvard grad himself by the way) go after higher education as "woke" to appeal to trailer park voters you just laugh at them. You don't go on a wild goose chase to respond to their every criticisms It's really pretty amazing that you keep getting bounced from the platform. 🤫 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 (edited) Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: The interesting part to me about this is that if one were to look at Harvard as a corporation, historically it would represent many of the things liberal voters often complain about. High barrier to entry, exorbitant cost, lily white for decades, a highly developed alumni network that favored croneyism/tribalism over virtually everything else, and an exorbitant endowment funded by powerful people of and for the benefit of other powerful people. We agree on this, Fergie, that's the real world. It's just kind of odd that liberals are down with all that, up to and including picking up the tab on the taxpayer dime. What does this mean? What constitutes a substandard degree? Field of study? School? And..."any" woman? There's more here, and we might yet find some more common ground... It's really pretty amazing that you keep getting bounced from the platform. 🤫 dude, being a liberal and a realist aren't mutually exclusive. And sure, there are lots of preppy pricks in the Ivys. There are also lots of very smart working class, minority and non legacy kids that worked their asses off. That said, patriarchy could be lessened at them. Trump will promise to take them on but the most gauche there are "his people". He won't do a thing. as far as substandard, think of any community college or St Bonaventure or Niagara = below average, easy to get in, low national networking. Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: dude, being a liberal and a realist aren't mutually exclusive. And sure, there are lots of preppy pricks in the Ivys. There are also lots of very smart working class, minority and non legacy kids that worked their asses off. That said, patriarchy could be lessened at them. You were talking 'real life'. I was, too. It wasn't meant to be personal, nor was it meant to be an indictment on graduates of Harvard--wealthy from birth or hard-scrabble kids who overcame their situation. I don't invest much time in worrying about that sort of thing, because it provides nothing of value to me. I guess I would say Harvard, the prestigious educational institution, has provided the world with some first class educated individuals who have done some great things for humanity (and of course, more than a few scoundrels). It's also fair to say Harvard, the business, is exclusionary, biased, tribal, nepotistic and awfully good at keeping extraordinary amounts of money in house. 12 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Trump will promise to take them on but the most gauche there are "his people". He won't do a thing. "Won't do a thing" leads me back to the original point. Who is doing anything about these institutions beyond offering their graduates/undergrads a ride on the taxpayer gravy train? It's almost like the normal rules don't apply to them. Here's a thought. As of 2022, Harvard's slush fund was $51,000,000,000. Why not reach out to the trustees, explain the challenges in education and student loan debt, and ask 'em to kick in $0.50 on the dollar? Lather, rinse, repeat across the country, especially at the prestigious universities with wealthy benefactors. 12 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: as far as substandard, think of any community college or St Bonaventure or Niagara = below average, easy to get in, low national networking. Ah, I don't think that way, so I'll leave you to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 (edited) Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Ah, I don't think that way, so I'll leave you to it. say you or I went to one of this institutions and tried to get a wall St finance job or even better a job in international finance, say in London. If that was your goal you damn well should think like that.... Just now, SUNY_amherst said: piss off joe niagara and st Bonaventure are lovely institutions where did you go anyway St Lawrence. Lots of friends at Dartmouth, Harvard, Middlebury, Skidmore, Oberlin etc. I attended Niagara for 2 semesters as a grad student. Nothing like those schools as far as faculty, facilities, libraries or connnections. Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Just now, SUNY_amherst said: Yah when I think of great institutions and great connections I think of Skidmore lol u should think of money which equals those things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 18, 2023 Author Share Posted December 18, 2023 Quack, MD with the elitism never gets old. He knows what a degree from Harvard is worth....perhaps something that can be reasonably estimated... What can't be reasonably guesstimated is the net worth of any individual on this board. But that doesn't stop 'ole Quack from engaging in still more of his special brand of pompous elitism. What a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Just now, SUNY_amherst said: no it doesnt Skidmore College/Typical SAT scores Reading and Writing 630-720, Math 640-720 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Just now, BillsFanNC said: Quack, MD with the elitism never gets old. He knows what a degree from Harvard is worth....perhaps something that can be reasonably estimated... What can't be reasonably guesstimated is the net worth of any individual on this board. But that doesn't stop 'ole Quack from engaging in still more of his special brand of pompous elitism. What a dick. i know what estimated earning are from Harvard on average. Most end up in the top 10% for earnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 18, 2023 Author Share Posted December 18, 2023 ⬆️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Just now, SUNY_amherst said: yeah and literally no one gives a shite in the workforce ask a girl who went there and whose parents went Ivy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 (edited) Just now, SUNY_amherst said: is she hot? can't remember but it was at the c'mon I wanna laya party....it's 90% female and the guys are mostly gay so a fine place for a party. many like her. Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 (edited) Just now, SUNY_amherst said: usually that’s the 1st thing I remember about a woman. Not the average SAT scores of their college lol see edit. also rich dads + beautiful moms usually equals good looks. Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: say you or I went to one of this institutions and tried to get a wall St finance job or even better a job in international finance, say in London. If that was your goal you damn well should think like that.... Well, it’s been a few years since I knew or hung out with any Wall St types. They were friends of a friend, successful guys working for Wall Street firms and none that went to Ivy League schools that I can recall. One guy worked at Cantor and died on 9/11. It’s a small sample size, but again, we’re not arguing. The networking and insider opportunities are legendary, and quite exclusive. Education is big business—lots of money and power consolidated in a few places. 3 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: St Lawrence. Lots of friends at Dartmouth, Harvard, Middlebury, Skidmore, Oberlin etc. I attended Niagara for 2 semesters as a grad student. Nothing like those schools as far as faculty, facilities, libraries or connnections. Endowment estimated at $315m for a tiny spec of a school just shy of the Canadian border. Dartmouth is sitting at $8b. Interestingly, the school seems content to try and be part of the solution with student aid and grants awarded to lowish income student. Still, $8b, wow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 The H-bomb may be one of the most valuable pieces of paper in the world. Pays dividends not just immediately after graduation but throughout your life if you play your cards right. Which is why it’s so incredibly disappointing to watch it get handed to the undeserving so often now. But that’s not a bug now, it’s a feature. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Well, it’s been a few years since I knew or hung out with any Wall St types. They were friends of a friend, successful guys working for Wall Street firms and none that went to Ivy League schools that I can recall. One guy worked at Cantor and died on 9/11. It’s a small sample size, but again, we’re not arguing. The networking and insider opportunities are legendary, and quite exclusive. Education is big business—lots of money and power consolidated in a few places. Endowment estimated at $315m for a tiny spec of a school just shy of the Canadian border. Dartmouth is sitting at $8b. Interestingly, the school seems content to try and be part of the solution with student aid and grants awarded to lowish income student. Still, $8b, wow. so when you think of endowments, you think bad? the alumni and the future alumni pay and will pay more tax than schools with small endowments by an order of magnitude or 3. So isn't it fair that they recoup some in student aid? the answer is yes. SLU is not a spec in the hockey world and several other universes. I think a good sign of networking/stature is whether the CIA regularly recruits there. I interviewed with them. Too big a mouth I guess. THIS is capitalism...the rich get richer. The alternative is socialism which MAGA's supposedly abhor. Edited December 19, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Being a Director of Engineering in Northern MA/Southern NH I've had the opportunity to supervise, hire and work with engineers from most of the engineering schools in the northeast. My experience with new graduates is that generally, the Ivy (plus MIT) graduates are sharper than engineers from other Universities. Having said that, they are often difficult to work with, arrogant and get bored easily. Much of engineering is drudgery (prototyping, testing, rework, drawings, documentation/specifications) which the ivy league engineers often felt was boring or beneath them. Also, many top engineers (from all institutions) are highly driven and are obsessed with furthering their career. With little company loyalty, I have experienced these types of individuals who left the company with less than a year into the position in which they were hired. Due to the above, I changed my hiring strategy and seldom targeted engineers from top institutions or engineers who were at the top of their class. I found more value from graduates with good but lower GPA's from second tier schools. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) Just now, Precision said: Being a Director of Engineering in Northern MA/Southern NH I've had the opportunity to supervise, hire and work with engineers from most of the engineering schools in the northeast. My experience with new graduates is that generally, the Ivy (plus MIT) graduates are sharper than engineers from other Universities. Having said that, they are often difficult to work with, arrogant and get bored easily. Much of engineering is drudgery (prototyping, testing, rework, drawings, documentation/specifications) which the ivy league engineers often felt was boring or beneath them. Also, many top engineers (from all institutions) are highly driven and are obsessed with furthering their career. With little company loyalty, I have experienced these types of individuals who left the company with less than a year into the position in which they were hired. Due to the above, I changed my hiring strategy and seldom targeted engineers from top institutions or engineers who were at the top of their class. I found more value from graduates with good but lower GPA's from second tier schools. Wondering if u consider RIT, RPI, Clarkson, Purdue as 2nd tier. I don't. Also, what's been your experience with 3/2 grads from liberal arts schools (eg St Lawrence/Clarkson)? Edited December 19, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 25 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Wondering if u consider RIT, RPI, Clarkson, Purdue as 2nd tier. I don't. Also, what's been your experience with 3/2 grads from liberal arts schools (eg St Lawrence/Clarkson)? I would if only because he qualified the Ivy+MIT crowd as "sharper." RIT, RPI, Clarkson, other northeast math and engineering powerhouses still recruit from a shallower pool than the Ivies, have lower SAT/ACT scores (which reflect IQ), and tend to test lower in tests like the MCAT, LSAT later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, LeviF said: I would if only because he qualified the Ivy+MIT crowd as "sharper." RIT, RPI, Clarkson, other northeast math and engineering powerhouses still recruit from a shallower pool than the Ivies, have lower SAT/ACT scores (which reflect IQ), and tend to test lower in tests like the MCAT, LSAT later on. Purdue is #2 in some polls. It aint easy to get into any of those schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Purdue is #2 in some polls. It aint easy to get into any of those schools. Yeah, I mean there's tiers of Ivies too if we're being honest. HYP then everyone else (with respect to our local Cornell apologists). That said, Purdue accepts over half of its applicants. Now as far as skill goes, RIT/RPI/Clarkson, even Webb (though highly niche) may turn out folks who are actually better at working engineering jobs. Working out of the area to Purdue, Carnegie Mellon, Northwestern, etc. may pull similar results. But these schools generally have to weed people out of their elite programs more than the Ivies due to lower bar for admission. Interestingly one exception to that rule might be Johns Hopkins. Despite not being an Ivy they are highly skewed toward test results in their admissions and end up with more folks of strong raw intelligence than other unis in their tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Wondering if u consider RIT, RPI, Clarkson, Purdue as 2nd tier. I don't. Also, what's been your experience with 3/2 grads from liberal arts schools (eg St Lawrence/Clarkson)? Compared to the Ivy league schools (plus MIT) I do consider RIT, RPI, Clarkson, Purdue second tier. I earned my BSEE and MSEE from Northeastern (was accepted at RIT, Clarkson and RPI) which I consider second tier as well. I don't consider this a "dig" against any of the schools mentioned but when you look at admissions requirements, generally their standards are lower than the Ivy league schools (plus MIT). I would put the state schools (UML, UMA, UNH, UCONN, UMaine, SUNY's, etc.) behind the schools you have listed above. Most of my experience with hiring is with schools from the Northeast as logistically it is more difficult to recruit graduates from further away. I always felt it was a waste of money to fly someone in for an interview when qualified candidates were close by. Video/Teams interviews can work but it is challenging showcasing the facilities and work environment over media. In the end the candidate, their personality/attitude, GPA and story far outweigh any institution they attended. Edited December 19, 2023 by Precision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: so when you think of endowments, you think bad? the alumni and the future alumni pay and will pay more tax than schools with small endowments by an order of magnitude or 3. So isn't it fair that they recoup some in student aid? the answer is yes. No, I don't think endowments are bad. I actually thought I was clear--Harvard holding $51 billion in what amounts to a corporate slush fund is problematic in a world where student loan debt is allegedly crushing the average American. One way to address that would be to partner with the federal government, and provide relief through gifts, grants to those suffering the most..and as you've pointed out, those people tend not to be Harvard grads. My initial suggestion was 50%, but that's just an easy, round number. 33%? 25%? 40%? The number of people that could be helped would be amazing, and Harvard would still control obscene amounts of money. Multiply that by the massive holdings of some of our university and colleges, you're getting some traction. Too much money, in too few hands, helps far too few people. We call it out when country clubs are exclusionary, yet in education, it's a no fly zone. 8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: SLU is not a spec in the hockey world and several other universes. I think a good sign of networking/stature is whether the CIA regularly recruits there. I interviewed with them. Too big a mouth I guess. I'm not speaking ill of your alma mater, I'm just talking real world. Small school, the university accepts nearly 60% of applicants, and 85 out of 100 graduate. If the university has a good hockey program, great. A google search suggests average attendance at an SLU game at around 1,200 over the past few years. It's awesome that you had an excellent experience there, that's what's most important for you. I'm talking big picture here. 8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: THIS is capitalism...the rich get richer. The alternative is socialism which MAGA's supposedly abhor. No, not at all. Your suggestion implies there is no middle ground. That Harvard must maintain control of its incredible wealth, or give it all away. There's plenty of middle ground to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Now 40 allegations of plagiarism 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: No, not at all. Your suggestion implies there is no middle ground. That Harvard must maintain control of its incredible wealth, or give it all away. There's plenty of middle ground to be found. why should the gov't tell Harvard what to do with their money. Should they be telling Exxon? c'mon. btw, I suspect t he vast majority of Harvard grads repay their debts in full. Edited December 20, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 20 hours ago, B-Man said: Now 40 allegations of plagiarism 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: why should the gov't tell Harvard what to do with their money. Should they be telling Exxon? c'mon. btw, I suspect t he vast majority of Harvard grads repay their debts in full. I'd think a Harvard grad would know that from minimum wage, unemployment, insurance requirements, permits, fees taxes and beyond, the government surely tells Exxon what to do with their money. I'm surprised you don't, maybe too much hockey. As for my suggestion, Harvard is perhaps the most recognizable name in American education and a key player in the industry. I don't understand why it makes sense to discuss Big Pharma's role in, say the opiod crisis or prescription drug cost, but shy away from discussing the role of educational institutions in the debt crisis beyond whatever self-serving approach they current take. Why be so timid? People are hurting. My initial thought is that Harvard would want to be part of the solution, so I wouldn't think the government would have to "tell them" to do anything. If there was resistance, sure, you push forward, but why? Not far from my office, there was a family farm (went back generations) adjoining land where the local high school/middle school sat. It turned out the school wanted some of the land to build a brand new bus garage, the family didn't want to sell, and it became contentious. At one point, the local Supt of the district stated that once they forced the sale of the land, they wouldn't necessarily need it all, and they would agree to "let the family keep some of it". It was ugly, really, and thankfully the community rallied around the family and the Superintendent crawled back into the shadows. It's all about fair share, and breaking down the walls of wealth and privilege. You seem to be more comfortable on the country club side of things, but I'd typically side with the family on the farm. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 GOOD POINT: Why Harvard Can’t Fire Claudine Gay: To admit she has performed poorly is to raise basic questions about the entire ‘diversity’ enterprise. Worse yet, they’re questions that everyone knows are valid but that the establishment can’t admit exist. https://archive.is/ZXHoE . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 lmao On 9/18/2023 at 1:50 PM, B-Man said: And he bumps them every evening, wether there is something new or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'd think a Harvard grad would know that from minimum wage, unemployment, insurance requirements, permits, fees taxes and beyond, the government surely tells Exxon what to do with their money. I'm surprised you don't, maybe too much hockey. Harvard has to deal with all this as well. so do their wealthy donor alumni. but the govt doesn't tell Exxon or big pharma or scumbags like Vivek what to do with their money once they've collected it.Archer Daniel Midlands gets billions in Ag subsidies. R U calling for them to lower food prices from their profits? You sound like an absolute socialist....and here you're a trumper on everything else. what you really want is what's best for you and your ilk, isms aside. Not winning? change the rules....i didn't realize til now what a victim you believe you are. For the other anti establishment Maggots here it was obvious but you portrayed a veneer of success and some self pride. guess not.....burn it all down and watch the devastation. I just hope there's someone left to buy my house before I leave for greener pastures. Edited December 21, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) You’ve got to admit. This dude looks a little like a chick. Edited December 21, 2023 by Irv 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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