Can we talk about Gabe Davis's performance?

[QCity]

The year is 2030.

 

It is August.

 

Gabe Davis is in his 12th year without ever catching 50 passes in a season.

 

There are about 20 threads wondering if Davis could be a true #2 receiver.

 

A dozen morons still think Cole Beasley is coming back at age 41.

 

This.....

 

This is twobillsdrive.com

[Warriorspikes51]

Rest Gabe all season then unleash him for 10 TD's in the playoffs!!!  

[Tanoros]

9 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

You followed Gabe Davis"  catch abilities before we drafted him?  So u follow his college team closely?

If you read closely, you’ll realize that first paragraph is about Kincaid, NOT Davis. 

[Dopey]

Oh boy,

Here we go. This year's whipping boy. Some of you guys are just pissing yourselves off with this Gabe narrative. If you want to keep saying he's our #2 Wr, presumed or not, go ahead. He was a 4th round pick and is making, on average, less than $1million per season. He was a project from the day he was drafted, or he would have been picked a lot earlier. There's a reason he was drafted so late. He wasn't seen as a top wr coming out of college. Based on draft position and cost, this was a good pick by Beane. I would take it again. Harty and Sherfield make more than Gabe does. Kincaid makes more. Hell, even Shakir makes more than Davis. The reason Gabe is out there so much, is we don't have many, if any wrs with size to block on the running plays, to catch contested passes. He was all we had that fit that mold. We can't have midget at every wr spot. He fills an important role, and in my opinion, he's done a good job. But I never expected great from him. Never cared if he was our "#2 wr". He fills an important role, and he does it well. As a 4th round pick at less than $1million per season, he's actually outperformed his contract. Glad we could talk about his performance. He was not the worst performer on the field Monday night. Not even close. Monday night was all about Josh. You might not agree with this comment, but this is deflection to spread blame for a game that was lost for one reason and one reason only. Hint: it wasn't Gabe.

[DrDawkinstein]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

He can't separate quickly

 

I keep seeing this criticism of our WRs from Sunday's game and I'm not sure I buy it.

 

First, the Jets have an amazing defensive backfield, so maybe guys were well covered.

 

However, I feel like folks are saying this mostly based on the fact Josh wouldn't throw them the ball. But right now, I feel that is more on Josh.

 

I'd also LOVE to see Dorsey ever scheme guys open like Reid does for Kelce and WRs in KC. We have so many mismatches. Why not split Kincaid and/or Cook all the way to the outside to see if you can get a LB on Diggs/Davis inside? Or anything along those lines.

[Rocbillsfan1]

All the talk about he was going to play like a #1 wr this offseason was hilarious. We know who the guy is. Even defenses have been calling him out. I trust that over fluff pieces coming from his teammates about how amazing he is. That 3rd int was at least 50% or more his fault the other night. He doesn’t run good routes and shouldn’t be trusted to be out there 90%+ of the time. 

[prissythecat]

I seem to recall in another thread that Gabe has the makings of a great leader because he played most of last season despite being hurt . He is now a captain this season for whatever reason.  So perhaps the Bills keep him on the field despite poor production to inspire the other players.

[Dopey]

Where's that Gabe fella at!! Get him!! 

[ngbills]

38 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Oh boy,

Here we go. This year's whipping boy. Some of you guys are just pissing yourselves off with this Gabe narrative. If you want to keep saying he's our #2 Wr, presumed or not, go ahead. He was a 4th round pick and is making, on average, less than $1million per season. He was a project from the day he was drafted, or he would have been picked a lot earlier. There's a reason he was drafted so late. He wasn't seen as a top wr coming out of college. Based on draft position and cost, this was a good pick by Beane. I would take it again. Harty and Sherfield make more than Gabe does. Kincaid makes more. Hell, even Shakir makes more than Davis. The reason Gabe is out there so much, is we don't have many, if any wrs with size to block on the running plays, to catch contested passes. He was all we had that fit that mold. We can't have midget at every wr spot. He fills an important role, and in my opinion, he's done a good job. But I never expected great from him. Never cared if he was our "#2 wr". He fills an important role, and he does it well. As a 4th round pick at less than $1million per season, he's actually outperformed his contract. Glad we could talk about his performance. He was not the worst performer on the field Monday night. Not even close. Monday night was all about Josh. You might not agree with this comment, but this is deflection to spread blame for a game that was lost for one reason and one reason only. Hint: it wasn't Gabe.

So we are ok having a sub par WR 2 because he is cheap and was a 4th round pick? There is a difference between this is a good player to have on your roster because of his cost and the role they play on the roster. They essentially committed to Gabe as #2 by giving Harty the contract they did. That money should have been used on a #2. Gave becomes part of the David/Sherfield/Cheaper Harty rotation. 

[SCBills]

I won't judge Gabe based off one week where our QB was a mess and we were up against an elite defense..

 

However, we desperately need that legitimate #2 option to Diggs.  Maybe Kincaid turns into that, but just like so many other things on Monday Night.. Gabe Davis was reminiscent of a lot of the worries we had last year.  

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by SCBills

[HappyDays]

46 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I keep seeing this criticism of our WRs from Sunday's game and I'm not sure I buy it.

 

It isn't just one game for Gabe. It's the story of his career. When forced into a WR2 role he has trouble separating against CBs and catches 50% of the targets thrown his way. He's Marquez Valdes-Scantling with a better release package. Having a player like that as a full time WR with even more mediocre weapons behind him is a HUGE crutch for the offense, especially one that has Super Bowl aspirations.

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It isn't just one game for Gabe. It's the story of his career. When forced into a WR2 role he has trouble separating against CBs and catches 50% of the targets thrown his way. He's Marquez Valdes-Scantling with a better release package. Having a player like that as a full time WR with even more mediocre weapons behind him is a HUGE crutch for the offense, especially one that has Super Bowl aspirations.

 

Agree.  The Kincaid/Knox roles will take some time, and I'm ok with that, but we were told all summer how great Gabe looked and how strong the connection between Allen and Sherfield was.  

 

Live bullets begin to fly and, yes - only one game in, Gabe looks like the same guy from last year and Sherfield is a blocking WR.. just like he's always been.  

 

I liked how they used Harty in space early, but either we went away from it or the Jets took it away.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

Oh boy,

Here we go. This year's whipping boy. Some of you guys are just pissing yourselves off with this Gabe narrative. If you want to keep saying he's our #2 Wr, presumed or not, go ahead. He was a 4th round pick and is making, on average, less than $1million per season. He was a project from the day he was drafted, or he would have been picked a lot earlier. There's a reason he was drafted so late. He wasn't seen as a top wr coming out of college. Based on draft position and cost, this was a good pick by Beane. I would take it again. Harty and Sherfield make more than Gabe does. Kincaid makes more. Hell, even Shakir makes more than Davis. The reason Gabe is out there so much, is we don't have many, if any wrs with size to block on the running plays, to catch contested passes. He was all we had that fit that mold. We can't have midget at every wr spot. He fills an important role, and in my opinion, he's done a good job. But I never expected great from him. Never cared if he was our "#2 wr". He fills an important role, and he does it well. As a 4th round pick at less than $1million per season, he's actually outperformed his contract. Glad we could talk about his performance. He was not the worst performer on the field Monday night. Not even close. Monday night was all about Josh. You might not agree with this comment, but this is deflection to spread blame for a game that was lost for one reason and one reason only. Hint: it wasn't Gabe.

 

So you agree that Gabe should not be a #2 WR and that Josh was the primary issue on Monday night? Which is exactly what I said in my post?

 

"Fills an important role" - yeah, he is our #2 WR. If you ask anyone on the team from the front office down to the players they'll tell you the same. I'm not presuming anything, the team is.

 

It's gotta be Kincaid or we have to make a trade at some point. There is no other answer.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

59 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I keep seeing this criticism of our WRs from Sunday's game and I'm not sure I buy it.

 

First, the Jets have an amazing defensive backfield, so maybe guys were well covered.

 

However, I feel like folks are saying this mostly based on the fact Josh wouldn't throw them the ball. But right now, I feel that is more on Josh.

 

I'd also LOVE to see Dorsey ever scheme guys open like Reid does for Kelce and WRs in KC. We have so many mismatches. Why not split Kincaid and/or Cook all the way to the outside to see if you can get a LB on Diggs/Davis inside? Or anything along those lines.

Do fans realize when they say things like - Jets have an amazing backfield, or that's the best D-Line we'll face all year, that the goal is to win a Super Bowl? 

 

And to do that you're going to face nothing but good teams with good defenses inevitably in the Playoffs? 

 

We do this all the time for the Buffalo Bills. We lower the bar to make ourselves feel good. Beane has not done a good enough job after acquiring Stefon Diggs when it comes to WR. We have "guys" after Diggs. 

 

If Allen isn't throwing to Diggs, Kincaid or Knox, I have no confidence. 

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Agree.  The Kincaid/Knox roles will take some time, and I'm ok with that, but we were told all summer how great Gabe looked and how strong the connection between Allen and Sherfield was.  

 

Live bullets begin to fly and, yes - only one game in, Gabe looks like the same guy from last year and Sherfield is a blocking WR.. just like he's always been.  

 

I liked how they used Harty in space early, but either we went away from it or the Jets took it away.

That started with Drive #2 with back to back Cook runs. 

 

We never did it again. 

 

The "creativity" bar is so low in Buffalo. A toss sweep is like wow, a reverse - holy smokes!, there was a play were Shakir motioned in the backfield - it catches your eye because every other play is so static and stationary. 

 

The Bills wild-package is a standard 4-wide, that's as "creative" as we get. 

 

Kincaid's average air yards on 4-catches was 1.6 yards. 6 total air yards. JUST WILD. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Do fans realize when they say things like - Jets have an amazing backfield, or that's the best D-Line we'll face all year, that the goal is to win a Super Bowl? 

 

And to do that you're going to face nothing but good teams with good defenses inevitably in the Playoffs? 

 

We do this all the time for the Buffalo Bills. We lower the bar to make ourselves feel good. Beane has not done a good enough job after acquiring Stefon Diggs when it comes to WR. We have "guys" after Diggs. 

 

If Allen isn't throwing to Diggs, Kincaid or Knox, I have no confidence. 

 

We can win a Super Bowl with this Defense, even with an inexperienced/undersized MLB and a Secondary in which (perhaps) our CB1 and both Safeties have legitimately lost a step.  The rest of the Defense is that good.

 

I fear a lot of people, myself included, may have underestimated the need for WR2 and RT upgrades.  Maybe Gabe steps up.. Maybe Brown steps up.. but the data sample is starting to become large enough that those hopes are fading a bit.  

 

I thought we did enough by upgrading the IOL and drafting Kincaid, but I really need to see Gabe/Brown step up moving forward.  I'll give them a pass, only one game, against an elite defense, but as others pointed out.. if we want to win a Super Bowl, chances are, we're going to need to beat an elite defense or two in the Playoffs.  

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I liked how they used Harty in space early, but either we went away from it or the Jets took it away.

 

I haven't seen much juice from Harty. He's automatically an upgrade on McKenzie because he doesn't puke all over himself several times a game, but he does not accelerate nearly as fast as advertised and he goes down on first contact. He appears comfortable as a punt returner though so that counts for something. I'm just not expecting him to be much of a contributor on offense. Those 3 yard swing passes gave Allen some easy completions but they didn't really move the offense.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by HappyDays

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

I haven't seen much juice from Harty. He's automatically an upgrade on McKenzie because he doesn't puke all over himself several times a game, but he does not accelerate nearly as fast as advertised and he goes down on first contact. He appears comfortable as a punt returner though so that counts for something. I'm just not expecting him to much of a contributor on offense. Those 3 yard swing passes gave Allen some easy completions but they didn't really move the offense.

 

Yea, he didn't exactly wow out there, but he's a competent/professional receiver... with the problem being, he seems to be a WR4 type, on a team that has no WR2.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We can win a Super Bowl with this Defense, even with an inexperienced/undersized MLB and a Secondary in which (perhaps) our CB1 and both Safeties have legitimately lost a step.  The rest of the Defense is that good.

 

I fear a lot of people, myself included, may have underestimated the need for WR2 and RT upgrades.  Maybe Gabe steps up.. Maybe Brown steps up.. but the data sample is starting to become large enough that those hopes are fading a bit.  

 

I thought we did enough by upgrading the IOL and drafting Kincaid, but I really need to see Gabe/Brown step up moving forward.  I'll give them a pass, only one game, against an elite defense, but as others pointed out.. if we want to win a Super Bowl, chances are, we're going to need to beat an elite defense or two in the Playoffs.  

I took play by play notes on Monday Night. 

 

It wasn't long before I wrote: "we have no speed on offense" 

 

This is just as it was in 2021 & 2022. 

 

Allen wants chunk plays, and other than Diggs, he has no vertical playmakers. 

 

That's a part of Allen's frustration at the podium. He has been provided checkdown offensive personnel. He said it verbatim last year: dink and dunk is nice, but sometimes you have to make things happen. 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I took play by play notes on Monday Night. 

 

It wasn't long before I wrote: "we have no speed on offense" 

 

This is just as it was in 2021 & 2022. 

 

Allen wants chunk plays, and other than Diggs, he has no vertical playmakers. 

 

That's a part of Allen's frustration at the podium. He has been provided checkdown offensive personnel. He said it verbatim last year: dink and dunk is nice, but sometimes you have to make things happen. 

 

Starting to think quite a few teams may be inquiring about Mike Evans... and I have to think we should be one of them.

 

If Gabe doesn't become who we need him to be, I'd absolutely be open to sending Davis to Tampa with a pick for Evans.   Both in the last year of their deals and we have a bandaid at WR2 until we can address it in the offseason/draft next year. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We can win a Super Bowl with this Defense, even with an inexperienced/undersized MLB and a Secondary in which (perhaps) our CB1 and both Safeties have legitimately lost a step.  The rest of the Defense is that good.

 

I fear a lot of people, myself included, may have underestimated the need for WR2 and RT upgrades.  Maybe Gabe steps up.. Maybe Brown steps up.. but the data sample is starting to become large enough that those hopes are fading a bit.  

 

I thought we did enough by upgrading the IOL and drafting Kincaid, but I really need to see Gabe/Brown step up moving forward.  I'll give them a pass, only one game, against an elite defense, but as others pointed out.. if we want to win a Super Bowl, chances are, we're going to need to beat an elite defense or two in the Playoffs.  

There was a Day-1 starting RT to be had in the 3rd Round and we passed. We got the typical run around about not having a full training camp, being a young player with limited experience (didn't stop them from playing him out of desperation as a rookie though). 

 

On WR#2, just as was predicted, the run on WR started right before the Bills pick. Out of the bunch I liked Smith-Ngijba and Zay Flowers the best. It's the Bills who have told the fans ad-nauseum that Gabe Davis is the hardest worked in Buffalo Bills history and can't be taken off the field. 

 

None of this should be a surprise to anyone. Harty is a 5'6" undrafted player with 4.40 speed. That's not Tyreek Hill. Sherfield has 833 career receiving yards. 

 

Our best shot is to optimize the two tight end set and pepper Diggs with 20 targets a game. We are the late-era Aaron Rodgers Packers with one dominant WR (Adams) and little else on offense. 

 

Come Playoff time we'll struggle as we always do because the line will not hold up, Diggs will be taken away, and the Bills have no run game or second option in the pass game. 

 

Not every process will yield 100%. Beane's philosophy of carrying 2020-2021-2022 has kept the team competitive. But there seems to a ceiling.