Who does Terry Pegula turn to for counsel when it comes to evaluating Beane & McDermott?

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

And even though I do think Bill Belichick has been an exceptional coach the main reason for those Superbowls was Tom Brady. The no time out and "play goalline" decision vs Seattle was pretty significant in winning one but otherwise the rest I pretty much have as players' wins. 

 

Interesting that you bring him up.   Agree with you that it was more Brady than BB for their sustained success and Championships.  Belichick is a shrewd in-game tactician to be sure, something that I and many don't see with McD.  Both are defensively oriented, BB better, but their similarity is that neither has the same ingenuity or skillset when it comes to offense, McD even less so.  In a league that's driven by offense these days, that's a huge impediment.  That's what the core complaint about McD seems to be.  

 

 

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What the best coaches do is develop players (the Bills do that well), create a winning culture (McDermott has done that) and then on gameday they generally have sensible gameplans that allow the players to execute. The Bills have had that, for the most part. Of course, and I have agreed with you on this from the start, the Bills largely go as Josh Allen goes. Welcome to the NFL. The Quarterback is the most important position. Generally our playoff record is we win when Josh plays well, we lose when he doesn't. The exception is Kansas City 2021. I don't think that is "covering up for coaching" or indeed "covering up" for talent acquisition failures. I just think it is the reality of NFL football. If we start losing playoff games to teams we are clearly better than where Josh outplays his counterpart and we still lose then I'd be looking at changing the Head Coach. But Watson, Mahomes and Burrow have outplayed Josh in 3 playoff losses. When Burrow outplayed Mahomes in 2021 in the AFCCG the Chiefs lost. The AFC is a Quarterback gauntlet. The one exception for us again is @Kansas City in 2021... and I think everyone is clear that a repeat of that would and indeed should result in coaching changes.  

 

Here's my issue with that, not that I disagree, but you don't go far enough there.  Sure, Josh didn't play well vs. Cincy, but neither did the D, horrifically in fact, and that has nothing to do with Allen directly.  We can argue about how Allen's play impacts it indirectly, but that's relatively moot here.  

 

Where I will disagree is that it was coaching that had our defensive players, repeatedly, set so far back on 3rd-and-relatively-short plays, as to all but hand them the 1st-down yardage in that Cincy game, shades of "13 Seconds" even.  That's 100% coaching and cannot be put onto the players, and apparently a lesson not learned, which is a huge issue here.  

 

As to gameplans, he may have pieced one or two good ones together, but it was a commonly repeated issue right here last season, about how the gameplans sucked or were not obvious, etc.  McD doesn't help himself in that way in pressers by explaining them.  

 

Again, we've beaten this to death.  It will be interesting this fall, we can have an intelligent review following games to track what the issues were and the like, and see how the fall unfolds.  

 

We're on the same sheet insofar as McD creating a winning culture.  Obviously you know that I'm not in the camp that believes that he's the one to finish the job and take us all the way.  There's nothing wrong with that as long as someone realizes it and makes the appropriate [business] moves there.  I view him as a sort of middle-reliever in baseball.  I will say, one thing that has always bothered me about fans, is that when a coach is fired or let go, the fans generally get on the bandwagon that he sucked or the like.  There is the possibility that a former coach had his strengths, they played out, but then the team entered a different phase for which he was not particularly suited to "taking it from there."  Obviously IMO that's McD.  But the point is that simply because a coach is "fired," does not mean that they didn't serve an important role up to that point. Often it does, but it doesn't always, which is the case here per my viewpoint.  But this is what you sign up for when you hire a first-time head-coach, no?  I don't recall when we hired him that many were saying he'll do what he's done. 

 

There was a whole lot of "let's wait and see" here.  He's definitely had some luck in generating his narrative:  Cincy beating the Ravens on that last play to put us in the playoffs in 2017 in a season where we all but entirely beat a list of nobodies and only one team that won a playoff game and that being only a wild-card game, and drafting Allen.  But it's entirely possible and as I see it, more than likely based upon the established patterns/trends, that he's reached a plateau.  Fans tend to send coaches off in shame, but there shouldn't be any shame here.  At the same time, if the team wants to take the next step, then they have a tough decision to make.  

 

Having said that, as Clint Eastwood said in Magnum Force, a man's got to know his limitations.  This season will reveal much, now with Frasier gone and Dorsey in his second season, and with zero excuses in the receiving dept. or at RB and OL now.  It's been interesting, every season we as a collective say, we finally have a set of good receivers, but then when the season ends, all of a sudden our receivers suck.  If we still finish DFL in rushing apart from Allen's rushing, if we still abandon the run in games where we're averaging well above average YPC, if the defense falls to mediocre in the rankings, etc., then I don't think that McD weathers that well.  

 

It'll be fun reviewing games with you in the fall.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

Here's my issue with that, not that I disagree, but you don't go far enough there.  Sure, Josh didn't play well vs. Cincy, but neither did the D, horrifically in fact, and that has nothing to do with Allen directly.  We can argue about how Allen's play impacts it indirectly, but that's relatively moot here.  

 

Where I will disagree is that it was coaching that had our defensive players, repeatedly, set so far back on 3rd-and-relatively-short plays, as to all but hand them the 1st-down yardage in that Cincy game, shades of "13 Seconds" even.  That's 100% coaching and cannot be put onto the players, and apparently a lesson not learned, which is a huge issue here.  

 

As to gameplans, he may have pieced one or two good ones together, but it was a commonly repeated issue right here last season, about how the gameplans sucked or were not obvious, etc.  McD doesn't help himself in that way in pressers by explaining them.  

 

 

Don't disagree the D played badly. But it was one of your points that Josh hides the flaws when we win and I think people who make that argument have to recognise the other side too. The 2021 KC game where Josh played brilliantly and we lost and the 2022 Miami game where Josh played relatively poorly and we won aside our playoff record in the McDermott-Allen era is almost directly tied to how Josh plays. So if Josh gets the credit when it goes well he also has to shoulder the blame when he plays like a zombie and even Diggs (who he has said publicly is the guy who can normally reach him) couldn't get through to him on the sideline and he was just sitting there staring into middle distance. 

 

The off coverage thing has been done to death. I know fans hate soft coverage, but it isn't always the wrong call and wasn't even always wrong in that game. On gameplans generally.... I mean it shouldn't be a surprise most fans don't find them obvious. Most fans don't know what they are watching (and that's fine you can enjoy the game of football without it). I don't think there was a consistent gameplan issue in 2022. Though happy to have my memory jogged if people want to discuss specific incidents. 

 

EDIT: and to be clear when I say Josh has to "shoulder the blame" I mean the blame for his performance. He clearly isn't responsible for the entire team. Though he is the most important part of it. No other piece of the jigsaw in the NFL affect wins and losses at anything close to the level that QB performance does. 

Edited May 26 by GunnerBill

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Don't disagree the D played badly. But it was one of your points that Josh hides the flaws when we win and I think people who make that argument have to recognise the other side too. The 2021 KC game where Josh played brilliantly and we lost and the 2022 Miami game where Josh played relatively poorly and we won aside our playoff record in the McDermott-Allen era is almost directly tied to how Josh plays. So if Josh gets the credit when it goes well he also has to shoulder the blame when he plays like a zombie and even Diggs (who he has said publicly is the guy who can normally reach him) couldn't get through to him on the sideline and he was just sitting there staring into middle distance. 

 

The off coverage thing has been done to death. I know fans hate soft coverage, but it isn't always the wrong call and wasn't even always wrong in that game. On gameplans generally.... I mean it shouldn't be a surprise most fans don't find them obvious. Most fans don't know what they are watching (and that's fine you can enjoy the game of football without it). I don't think there was a consistent gameplan issue in 2022. Though happy to have my memory jogged if people want to discuss specific incidents. 

 

I discount that Miami game, generally speaking, simply because of the unbearable and dangerous heat element.  We've all been in that kind of heat and worked in it to some extent, it becomes difficult to think straight under those circumstances, which were absurdly anomalous.  

 

Again, not in argument, just as an outlier in assessing or analyzing the team overall.  

 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, 22 is too low, not agreeing with that.

 

But until he figures out how to coach up in the big games ... 

 

 

Was our home playoff game against the Ravens not a big game?

 

it’s hard to take arguments seriously when we act like it’s never ever been done by McD.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

I discount that Miami game, generally speaking, simply because of the unbearable and dangerous heat element.  We've all been in that kind of heat and worked in it to some extent, it becomes difficult to think straight under those circumstances, which were absurdly anomalous.  

 

Again, not in argument, just as an outlier in assessing or analyzing the team overall.  

 

 

I'm on about the playoff game. Where Josh was below par. Not a disaster, but off his best and bad turnovers. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Don't disagree the D played badly. But it was one of your points that Josh hides the flaws when we win and I think people who make that argument have to recognise the other side too. The 2021 KC game where Josh played brilliantly and we lost and the 2022 Miami game where Josh played relatively poorly and we won aside our playoff record in the McDermott-Allen era is almost directly tied to how Josh plays. So if Josh gets the credit when it goes well he also has to shoulder the blame when he plays like a zombie and even Diggs (who he has said publicly is the guy who can normally reach him) couldn't get through to him on the sideline and he was just sitting there staring into middle distance. 

 

The off coverage thing has been done to death. I know fans hate soft coverage, but it isn't always the wrong call and wasn't even always wrong in that game. On gameplans generally.... I mean it shouldn't be a surprise most fans don't find them obvious. Most fans don't know what they are watching (and that's fine you can enjoy the game of football without it). I don't think there was a consistent gameplan issue in 2022. Though happy to have my memory jogged if people want to discuss specific incidents. 

 

 

 

When I saw that live, it looked to me Josh was afraid to make eye contact with Diggs.  He could hear him but wasn't going to acknowledge him.

 

I was very pissed how our DL played that day.  I was pissed at Davis for dropping that deep ball down the sideline....we were still in that game.

But with Allen, it was disappointing.  Nothing was right that day and Allen was a major part of it.

 

I think it was a big tell when Allen stated "I've never been more focused on football in my life" a few weeks ago.  

 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Was our home playoff game against the Ravens not a big game?

 

it’s hard to take arguments seriously when we act like it’s never ever been done by McD.

 

One game, in nine, and a divisional game?  Against a team with hardly any offensive talent?  

 

How about the one before it or after it?  

 

It's hard to take an argument seriously when someone uses an exception to formulate a position.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

23 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

One game, in nine, and a divisional game?  Against a team with hardly any offensive talent?  

 

How about the one before it or after it?  

 

It's hard to take an argument seriously when someone uses an exception to formulate a position.  

 

 

 

The Ravens averaged 29.3 points per game which was 6th in the league.  

The Colts team averaged 28.2 points per game which was 8th in the league.

[FireChans]

26 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

One game, in nine, and a divisional game?  Against a team with hardly any offensive talent?  

 

How about the one before it or after it?  

 

It's hard to take an argument seriously when someone uses an exception to formulate a position.  

 

 

Oh oh that one just doesn’t count. Lmao.

 

Sorry my mistake. I thought it was a great gameplan against a playoff team to get us to the first AFCCG in like 2 decades. But hey, not really a big game, not really a great gameplan (because that team had no offensive talent even though they made the divisional round and whipped the Titans the week before with 400 yards of offense).

 

I’ll be more careful to bend reality to my “McD always sucks in the playoffs” narrative.

 

[PBF81]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh oh that one just doesn’t count. Lmao.

 

Sorry my mistake. I thought it was a great gameplan against a playoff team to get us to the first AFCCG in like 2 decades. But hey, not really a big game, not really a great gameplan (because that team had no offensive talent even though they made the divisional round and whipped the Titans the week before with 400 yards of offense).

 

I’ll be more careful to bend reality to my “McD always sucks in the playoffs” narrative.

 

 

We'll, you're right, the fact that he didn't do anything in 80% of our games, while giving away the most important ones means he's very good.

 

How could I have been so blind.  

 

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The Ravens averaged 29.3 points per game which was 6th in the league.  

The Colts team averaged 28.2 points per game which was 8th in the league.

 

The Colts posted their best offensive game of the season against us.

 

Obviously a phenominal defensive coaching effort.  I mean what else can one expect from a coach but to game plan to allow opponents to post season bests against us, in the playoffs.  

 

472 yards

 

What am I thinking.  

 

 

Edited May 26 by PBF81

[Royale with Cheese]

31 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We'll, you're right, the fact that he didn't do anything in 80% of our games, while giving away the most important ones means he's very good.

 

How could I have been so blind.  

 

 

The Colts posted their best offensive game of the season against us.

 

Obviously a phenominal defensive coaching effort.  I mean what else can one expect from a coach but to game plan to allow opponents to post season bests against us, in the playoffs.  

 

472 yards

 

What am I thinking.  

 

 

 

They scored 24 points....below their season average.  So it's obvious that yards are more important than points to you.

Because on the season, the Colts scored above 24 points 9 times.  They scored above 30, 6 of those times.  40, once.

 

24 points a game average was 19th in rankings that year.  A below average scoring game was their best offensive game??

24 points = PHENOMENAL offensive out put.

 

Yards > Points - PBF81

48 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh oh that one just doesn’t count. Lmao.

 

Sorry my mistake. I thought it was a great gameplan against a playoff team to get us to the first AFCCG in like 2 decades. But hey, not really a big game, not really a great gameplan (because that team had no offensive talent even though they made the divisional round and whipped the Titans the week before with 400 yards of offense).

 

I’ll be more careful to bend reality to my “McD always sucks in the playoffs” narrative.

 

 

We held the Ravens to 3 points when when they averaged 29 points a game.

But since it's a positive about the Bills....the Ravens didn't have offensive talent lol.  He literally said that.

Edited May 26 by Royale with Cheese

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We'll, you're right, the fact that he didn't do anything in 80% of our games, while giving away the most important ones means he's very good.

 

How could I have been so blind.  

 

 

The Colts posted their best offensive game of the season against us.

 

Obviously a phenominal defensive coaching effort.  I mean what else can one expect from a coach but to game plan to allow opponents to post season bests against us, in the playoffs.  

 

472 yards

 

What am I thinking.  

 

 

Lol in the playoffs every game is important. Because if you lose, you don’t keep going.

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They scored 24 points....below their season average.  So it's obvious to you that yards are more important than points.

Because on the season, the Colts scored above 24 points 9 times.  They scored above 30, 6 of those times.  40, twice.

24 points = PHENOMENAL offensive out put.

 

Yards > Points - PBF81

 

We held the Ravens to 3 points when when they averaged 29 points a game.

But since it's a positive about the Bills....the Ravens didn't have offensive talent lol.  He literally said that.

The Ravens game wasn’t important bro. It wouldn’t have mattered if we won or lost. We went to the AFCCG either way.

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The Ravens game wasn’t important bro. It wouldn’t have mattered if we won or lost. We went to the AFCCG either way.

 

And also the Colts best offensive performance in 2020 was against the Bills and the incredible 3 TD they scored.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Lol in the playoffs every game is important. Because if you lose, you don’t keep going.

The Ravens game wasn’t important bro. It wouldn’t have mattered if we won or lost. We went to the AFCCG either way.

 

I think he was referring to the Ravens playoff game in the 2020 season.  He and I were discussing playoffs.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They scored 24 points....below their season average.  So it's obvious that yards are more important than points to you.

Because on the season, the Colts scored above 24 points 9 times.  They scored above 30, 6 of those times.  40, once.

 

24 points a game average was 19th in rankings that year.  A below average scoring game was their best offensive game??

24 points = PHENOMENAL offensive out put.

 

Yards > Points - PBF81

 

We held the Ravens to 3 points when when they averaged 29 points a game.

But since it's a positive about the Bills....the Ravens didn't have offensive talent lol.  He literally said that.

 

You're right.  I'm starting to see this more clearly now.  

 

I've set the bar too high for our #1/#2 Defenses.  I'll go ahead and readjust it to allow for season high performances from our opponents as being solid performances.  

 

I'm sure that'll help me view things more realistically then.  

 

Appreciate the insights.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

34 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I think he was referring to the Ravens playoff game in the 2020 season.  He and I were discussing playoffs.  

 

 

 

You're right.  I'm starting to see this more clearly now.  

 

I've set the bar too high for our #1/#2 Defenses.  I'll go ahead and readjust it to allow for season high performances from our opponents as being solid performances.  

 

I'm sure that'll help me view things more realistically then.  

 

Appreciate the insights.  

 

 

Thank you for validating my point that you believe points are less important than total yards.  

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Thank you for validating my point that you believe points are less important than total yards.  

 

You seem to take these simple discussions incredibly seriously.  

 

Have a great weekend Quarter Pounder with Cheese.  

 

 

[The Jerk]

He asks himself WWHHD?

 

What would Hulk Hogan do?

[BBFL]

5 minutes ago, The Jerk said:

He asks himself WWHHD?

 

What would Hulk Hogan do?

[mannc]

On 5/17/2023 at 9:14 PM, Nephilim17 said:

When the team is doing well and/or exceeding general expectations, as it has done the past few years, minus, probably, last season, this question is kind of moot.

 

But if and when the team is not meeting expectations or things get complicated, is there anyone in Pegula's circle of friends or trusted business associates (at arm's length from Bills operations) who he can turn to for advice and counsel on questions related to extensions, evaluations, or possible firings?

 

I'm not trying to be negative; I hope McBean lead us to multiple championships... but if things don't go as well as we hope — and with an elite QB things should mean serious contention for a Super Bowl — is Terry on his own or who advises him? 

 

Perhaps Nyheim Hines…

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

He buys a Groupon for a visit to Lilydale