Chiefs signing former Bucs LT Donovan Smith

[C.Biscuit97]

Their oline has taken a major step back this year. Bad OTs and now injuries in the interior. Combine that with their garbage WRs, it’s the season from hell for Mahomes. 

[FireChans]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You are going off the rails a bit here, Hap.   Kincaid has basically the same yards per game as Knox had last year.  That's who he's replaced in the pecking order in 2023.   Shakir replaces the Crowder/McKenzie/Beasley in the slot.    But it's not as simple as that.   Diggs production is way down.   Davis is also down.    If you want to play that game you will go in circles because things have changed.   In part because Sherfield and Harty have not played to expectations.

 

So what we do know is that the Bills switched out veterans Crowder, McKenzie(and Kumerow if you wish) and brought in veterans Sherfield and Harty.........to some degree of fanfare......not just as special teams players and blockers.  And in Harty's case for significantly more money invested.

 

I mean, Sherfield didn't quit his job as the clear-cut WR3 in Miami to get paid near minimum wage to replace Kumerow as a 5th or 6th WR. 

 

He thought it was a better opportunity to advance his career with the Bills because they had a weaker 1-2 combo than the target hogging stud 1-2 Hill/Waddle grouping in Miami.    He might have even thought he could compete with Davis.........where he could not with either Hill and Waddle.      

 

What Sherfield found out is that having 2 studs in Miami actually provided him MORE opportunity.    They draw a lot of attention.  The Bills lack of a consistent WR2 type weapon has allowed defense's to distribute their attention more proportionately after Diggs.    

 

Where Kincaid fits into the equation at the time of the Sherfield and Sharty signings?    He did not exist in them. 

 

Because they had no idea they were going to have Kincaid.   In fact, most of the chatter/info was that WR was their hope to acquire in round 1........and they just pivoted with the WR's gone and Kincaid on the board.   

One correction. Sherfield was the 4 in Miami. Cedrick Wilson was paid a lot of money to be 3

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

One correction. Sherfield was the 4 in Miami. Cedrick Wilson was paid a lot of money to be 3

 

No he had clearly beaten Cedrick Wilson out in 2022.........it wasn't even close in terms of target share or production.   

 

Sherfield and Gesicki were neck and neck in targets at 51 and 52 but Sherfield was more productive per play and everyone knew Gesicki was leaving for somewhere they might use him more.

 

The Dolphins were shocked when Sherfield left his great gig to go to Buffalo.......and then when he said the reason was that he wanted to play with a great QB. 

 

And fwiw..........the Dolphins have not been able to replace Sherfield either.    It's Hill and Waddle and then a bunch of guys like Wilson with 200 or so yards. 

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No he had clearly beaten Cedrick Wilson out in 2022.........it wasn't even close in terms of target share or production.   

 

Sherfield and Gesicki were neck and neck in targets at 51 and 52 but Sherfield was more productive per play and everyone knew Gesicki was leaving for somewhere they might use him more.

 

The Dolphins were shocked when Sherfield left his great gig to go to Buffalo.......and then when he said the reason was that he wanted to play with a great QB. 

 

And fwiw..........the Dolphins have not been able to replace Sherfield either.    It's Hill and Waddle and then a bunch of guys like Wilson with 200 or so yards. 

that’s true, but I think the Dolphins brass wanted Wilson to be #3 in targets this season, not Trent. Because of his price tag.

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

that’s true, but I think the Dolphins brass wanted Wilson to be #3 in targets this season, not Trent. Because of his price tag.

 

I think it was pretty clear by the end of last season that Cedrick Wilson wasn't going to be that guy.   I've seen all of their games and there hasn't been any concerted effort to get him regularly involved.  He has 381 total yards in his 2 seasons in Miami.  Sherfield had 417 last season alone and seemed to be trending up. (edit: and the money isn't THAT big with Cedrick it was basically a 2 year $12.5M guaranteed deal)

 

Sherfield leaving Miami for a $1.8M contract in Buffalo has turned into a seemingly terrible decision for him.   He had some helium in Miami in an offense that doesn't feature a TE,  didn't have much WR depth, had good passing weather, no state taxes....

 

For it to turn out like it has for Sherfield has to be extremely frustrating.   He and Poona Ford both have really seen their careers come to a screeching halt on $1.7M deals in Buffalo this season.  Hasn't been much better for Rapp either.   3 guys whose status has diminished in Buffalo after taking cheap deals.

Edited December 26, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

One correction. Sherfield was the 4 in Miami. Cedrick Wilson was paid a lot of money to be 3

What does being paid have to do with Sherfield beating Wilson out and actually playing WR3 while Wilson was watching him from the sideline?  Sherfield WAS the Miami WR3 last season.  Wilson was the WR4 while getting paid to be the WR3.

 

sherfield played 57% of the snaps

wilson played 22%
 

[HappyDays]

39 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I think it was pretty clear by the end of last season that Cedrick Wilson wasn't going to be that guy.   I've seen all of their games and there hasn't been any concerted effort to get him regularly involved.  He has 381 total yards in his 2 seasons in Miami.  Sherfield had 417 last season alone and seemed to be trending up. (edit: and the money isn't THAT big with Cedrick it was basically a 2 year $12.5M guaranteed deal)

 

Sherfield leaving Miami for a $1.8M contract in Buffalo has turned into a seemingly terrible decision for him.   He had some helium in Miami in an offense that doesn't feature a TE,  didn't have much WR depth, had good passing weather, no state taxes....

 

I think Sherfield has had trouble learning our system. Too many instances this season, even late in the season when he should know better, of him not being where he's supposed to be or running the wrong route. It has made him an afterthought. The Shanahan system is known to be very player friendly. I never expected him to be a major contributor but I expected his floor to be near what he did in Miami.

 

I think Beane has done a poor job of scouting the intelligence of players he brings in. We've had a lot of dopes over the years. It's one thing to watch film of a player in a particular system. He and his staff need to do a better job of talking to these players and feeling out if they're smart enough to perform consistently at a high level.

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What does being paid have to do with Sherfield beating Wilson out and actually playing WR3 while Wilson was watching him from the sideline?  Sherfield WAS the Miami WR3 last season.  Wilson was the WR4 while getting paid to be the WR3.

 

sherfield played 57% of the snaps

wilson played 22%
 

I guess I mispoke, I think Miami wanted Wilson to take over as #3 this season.

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I guess I mispoke, I think Miami wanted Wilson to take over as #3 this season.

Copy that.  

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think Sherfield has had trouble learning our system. 

 

I think Beane has done a poor job of scouting the intelligence of players he brings in. 

 

 

Yeah I was going to expand into the highlighted with Hap but wanted to keep the response simpler since she was just missing the point.   Which was the Bills choice of which vets to replace the outgoing Lil' Dummy and Crowder with.   It was a swap in the similar sense to what KC did at the tackle spots and there were fans on here who bought into the Kool-aid/untapped potential angle like it was a sure thing.    

 

For $7M in guarantees they got Sharty and Sherfield and replaced 500 yards in production with a combined 200 yards so far.   While Dummy and Crowder had a $1.2 and a vet min cap hit($880K) and have outproduced them by about 30 yards or so while also vanishing from any relevance whatsoever.   It was $6M waste of cap space to shuffle deck chairs that has also seemed to injure everyone involved.

 

But yeah,  I think your point is the main reason Sherfield hasn't been productive.   Not going to get targets if not trusted to be where you are supposed to be.   Was it the KC game or the Philly game where he was supposed to run a post and basically ran the virtually extinct bang 9 route......straight into coverage.......and Allen threw the ball where he should have been for an almost sure TD?   That was maybe the most egregiously poor route of the season by a Bills WR.   No question whatsoever that was all on him.  Gabe has had some doozies but that one was a true ***** by Sherfield.

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Their oline has taken a major step back this year. Bad OTs and now injuries in the interior. Combine that with their garbage WRs, it’s the season from hell for Mahomes. 

Like Allen had last season when he had the worst Guard play in the league and the RT was a turnstile.  The WR group was so bad they had to bring Brown & Beasley back from their couches to play.  And yet Allen led the Bills to a 13 - 3 season had 5045 total yards and 42 total TD's.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

51 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Like Allen had last season when he had the worst Guard play in the league and the RT was a turnstile.  The WR group was so bad they had to bring Brown & Beasley back from their couches to play.  And yet Allen led the Bills to a 13 - 3 season had 5045 total yards and 42 total TD's.

 

 

The common thing here seems to be we know how to find defensive players, but offensive players is a problem in free agency
 

They should address that

[Bermuda Triangle]

On 12/25/2023 at 5:05 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

This is nothing compared to Zerovoltz starting a thread talking about the Bills need worse receivers because the Chiefs won a SB without them(not realizing how important a do-everything-well receiver who caught nearly 80% of targets Juju Smith-Schuster was for them). 

 

You can always tell that someone has no clue about talent evaluation when part of their description of a player is "he can't be worse than" so-and-so.

 

Common sense could tell you that Brown was better than Taylor.   Common sense could tell you Smith was washed.    

 

In fairness,  we had a lot of people claiming Sherfield and Sharty were big upgrades over what the Bills got rid of...........and as I said then.......the truth was always that Crowder and McKenzie clearly had been better NFL players in their careers.    Sherfield and Harty weren't actually likely to be more productive players.    Sure enough, Crowder and McKenzie put up 500 yards in 2022........and the Bills have only gotten 200 from Sherfield and Sharty.

 

 

Crowder put up a whopping 60 receiving yards in 2022 (and predictably got hurt), so the balance of that 500 yards came from McKenzie (the same guy who have a corny, derisive nickname for....like "Sharty").  Both Sherfield and Harty this year have outproduced 2022 Crowder, which is admittedly a very low bar to clear.  Nobody has replaced  McKenzie's production from 2022, but he's a dummy, or whatever you repeatedly call him

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Crowder put up a whopping 60 receiving yards in 2022 (and predictably got hurt), so the balance of that 500 yards came from McKenzie (the same guy who have a corny, derisive nickname for....like "Sharty").  Both Sherfield and Harty this year have outproduced 2022 Crowder, which is admittedly a very low bar to clear.  Nobody has replaced  McKenzie's production from 2022, but he's a dummy, or whatever you repeatedly call him

 

 

So I posted the stats......and you.........thought I didn't know the stats?  

 

You're a little lost, Bermuda.

 

The point is that Bills fans thought it was a big upgrade adding Sharty and Sherfield.......like the Chiefs did with the OT's.......the subject of this thread.

 

It's just the nature of uninformed and/or unrealistic fans to expect the near best possible results..........even though the rule of thumb with free agency has always been that it usually(at least in year 1) hurts the team that loses the player more than it helps the team that acquires the player.

 

But fwiw........Crowder has more receiving yardage than any of the other 3 this season as he circles the drain in what is probably his last year in the league.   As I said later in this thread.........the shuffling of the washed up Crowder and the 3 other nobodies has not benefitted ANYONE.     

 

As for the name-fluid receiver recently known as Deonte Harris..........what's wrong with a tweak so that WR's 3-6 all have last names that start with "Sh"?    The HuSH brothers were going to quiet the doubters like me.  Teamwork makes the dreamwork.    

[Bermuda Triangle]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So I posted the stats......and you.........thought I didn't know the stats?  

 

You're a little lost, Bermuda.

 

The point is that Bills fans thought it was a big upgrade adding Sharty and Sherfield.......like the Chiefs did with the OT's.......the subject of this thread.

 

It's just the nature of uninformed and/or unrealistic fans to expect the near best possible results..........even though the rule of thumb with free agency has always been that it usually(at least in year 1) hurts the team that loses the player more than it helps the team that acquires the player.

 

But fwiw........Crowder has more receiving yardage than any of the other 3 this season as he circles the drain in what is probably his last year in the league.   As I said later in this thread.........the shuffling of the washed up Crowder and the 3 other nobodies has not benefitted ANYONE.     

 

As for the name-fluid receiver recently known as Deonte Harris..........what's wrong with a tweak so that WR's 3-6 all have last names that start with "Sh"?    The HuSH brothers were going to quiet the doubters like me.  Teamwork makes the dreamwork.    

So if you know the stats, then you know that the  production of the "HuSH brothers", as you call them, through 15 games in 2023, has exceeded that of the McKenzie/Crowder/Shakir trio in 2022.  So it has been an upgrade, albeit a relatively minor one.

[FireChans]

17 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The common thing here seems to be we know how to find defensive players, but offensive players is a problem in free agency
 

They should address that

My hot take is really that last year was an AWFUL FA class by Beane, probably the worst of his regime from a results standpoint.

 

This year has been mediocre, with the crummy WR's being predictably crummy and being targeted for strange reasons, but the LG and edge rusher additions have been homeruns.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

So if you know the stats, then you know that the  production of the "HuSH brothers", as you call them, through 15 games in 2023, has exceeded that of the McKenzie/Crowder/Shakir trio in 2022.  So it has been an upgrade, albeit a relatively minor one.

?????????

[FireChans]

2022: McK, Shakir, Crowder: 699 yards, 6 TDs

 

2023: Shakir, Harty, Sherfield: 667 yards, 3 TD's

 

Money well spent lmao. Shakir ended up doing the heavy lifting anyway.

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

2022: McK, Shakir, Crowder: 699 yards, 6 TDs

 

2023: Shakir, Harty, Sherfield: 667 yards, 3 TD's

 

Money well spent lmao. Shakir ended up doing the heavy lifting anyway.

Yeah, that's not accurate.  

 

For context, the 2023 Bills have thrown the ball less, and have run the ball more, than the 2022 Bills.  And 2023 stats are through 15 games, while 2022 stats are for 16 games.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Yeah, that's not accurate.  

 

For context, the 2023 Bills have thrown the ball less, and have run the ball more, than the 2022 Bills.  And 2023 stats are through 15 games, while 2022 stats are for 16 games.

That's what PFR says:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2022.htm

[Bermuda Triangle]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That's what PFR says:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2022.htm

423 (McKenzie) + 161 (Shakir) + 60 (Crowder) = 644