New stadium cost goes up from $1.4 billion to $1.54 billion.

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

I just love these whining folks who are always clutching their pearls because the Bills are getting help building a new stadium and OHMAGERD taxpayers are footing part of the bill. SO WHAT?!?! The Bills ARE WNY, period. It's a great investment for the region and thankfully all of those in the negotiations are pro public stadium financing.

 

Local taxpayers weren't allowed to decide whether "The Bills ARE WNY".....period.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

51 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Local taxpayers weren't allowed to decide whether "The Bills ARE WNY".....period.

 

Yet they are... and they DID because a majority of them voted for those involved in the stadium deal.

[mrags]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

I just love these whining folks who are always clutching their pearls because the Bills are getting help building a new stadium and OHMAGERD taxpayers are footing part of the bill. SO WHAT?!?! The Bills ARE WNY, period. It's a great investment for the region and thankfully all of those in the negotiations are pro public stadium financing.

Fyi I’m not whining the Bills are reviewing money from the state/taxpayers. I’m not whining that the Bills are charging PSLs. I’m not whining that they are going to increases ticket prices dramatically. 
 

im simply arguing that even though they are receiving a ton of money from taxpayers, and charge for PSLs, and request likely double or triple ticket prices. They will not be providing anything more than they currently do now. That’s debatable and we will not know until the stadium is built. I’m arguing that it’s a bad deal because for the money that this thing is costing, I would have expected a roof. Because in the bad weather months which is up to and over half of the season in Buffalo, the team has a hard time selling out games now at the prices they currently charge. And that’s before they double ticket prices, and that’s before they charge for PSLs, and that’s before they raise the prices of concessions, and parking, and merchandise at the stadium. We will see how much of the fan base is covered up guess when this thing is done. We will see how bad they assumed what the fan base would pay. Eventually Allen won’t be our QB. And eventually we will not be one of the hottest teams in the league. And at that time, you will likely see lots of empty seats in the stadium. 
 

just my opinion. 

[Warriorspikes51]

54 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Local taxpayers weren't allowed to decide whether "The Bills ARE WNY".....period.

Oh? Do you want the team moved 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

18 minutes ago, mrags said:

Fyi I’m not whining the Bills are reviewing money from the state/taxpayers. I’m not whining that the Bills are charging PSLs. I’m not whining that they are going to increases ticket prices dramatically. 
 

im simply arguing that even though they are receiving a ton of money from taxpayers, and charge for PSLs, and request likely double or triple ticket prices. They will not be providing anything more than they currently do now. That’s debatable and we will not know until the stadium is built. I’m arguing that it’s a bad deal because for the money that this thing is costing, I would have expected a roof. Because in the bad weather months which is up to and over half of the season in Buffalo, the team has a hard time selling out games now at the prices they currently charge. And that’s before they double ticket prices, and that’s before they charge for PSLs, and that’s before they raise the prices of concessions, and parking, and merchandise at the stadium. We will see how much of the fan base is covered up guess when this thing is done. We will see how bad they assumed what the fan base would pay. Eventually Allen won’t be our QB. And eventually we will not be one of the hottest teams in the league. And at that time, you will likely see lots of empty seats in the stadium. 
 

just my opinion. 

 

That wasn't directed at you, it was directed at those who are complaining about public funding and taxes. Thankfully the Bills's new stadium isn't threatened by that vocal minority.

19 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Oh? Do you want the team moved 

 

Exactly... 

[Mr. WEO]

52 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Yet they are... and they DID because a majority of them voted for those involved in the stadium deal.

 

Did the people running for office campaign on publicly funding a stadium?  Or are you trying to say that when you vote for a state office holder, you automatically favor and approve of,  in advance, any way in which they decide to spend your tax dollars. 

 

Also, the only poll produced a year ago (Sienna) showed overwhelming statewide opposition to the funding in every demographic---with those polled upstate far more against it than NYC residents who were polled.

56 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Oh? Do you want the team moved 

 

Moved????  Come on now!  Terry Pegula saved the Bills from moving (it was big news here on TBD). 

 

Now you are saying he would move the Buffalo Bills out of Buffalo???

[EasternOHBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Did the people running for office campaign on publicly funding a stadium?  Or are you trying to say that when you vote for a state office holder, you automatically favor and approve of,  in advance, any way in which they decide to spend your tax dollars. 

 

Also, the only poll produced a year ago (Sienna) showed overwhelming statewide opposition to the funding in every demographic---with those polled upstate far more against it than NYC residents who were polled.

 

"The bill that included the Bills stadium funding passed 95-49 in the Assembly and 39-23 in the Senate."

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/opposition-to-bills-stadium-funding-not-enough-to-sway-budget-voting/article_c11882f4-b808-11ec-849a-a37eb1662c52.html

 

The funding for the new Bills stadium was up for debate throughout the 2022 election season. If it was "overwhelmingly opposed" as you claim, the vote wouldn't have been that disparate, so yeah...

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

"The bill that included the Bills stadium funding passed 95-49 in the Assembly and 39-23 in the Senate."

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/opposition-to-bills-stadium-funding-not-enough-to-sway-budget-voting/article_c11882f4-b808-11ec-849a-a37eb1662c52.html

 

The funding for the new Bills stadium was up for debate throughout the 2022 election season. If it was "overwhelmingly opposed" as you claim, the vote wouldn't have been that disparate, so yeah...

 

So the article you cited, titled "opposition-to-bills-stadium-funding-not-enough-to-sway-budget-voting", is evidence that voters supported Bills stadium voting?

 

Maybe you are confusing he voting public with Assembly and Senate voters?  The former group certainly did not get a chance to "debate" or "vote" on this funding. That's not how it's done in NYS. 

 

Also, the public funding scheme for the stadium was publicly announced in March 2022.  The 2022 election happened 8 months after this announcement. Kind of late for much "public debate" after a decision has been made, don't you think?

 

Anyway, There was no debate in front of voters.

[SoCal Deek]

For those that want to sit under a roof, might I suggest that you purchase tickets that are…what’s the phrase I’m looking for….oh yeah…UNDER THE ROOF! 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So the article you cited, titled "opposition-to-bills-stadium-funding-not-enough-to-sway-budget-voting", is evidence that voters supported Bills stadium voting?

 

Maybe you are confusing he voting public with Assembly and Senate voters?  The former group certainly did not get a chance to "debate" or "vote" on this funding. That's not how it's done in NYS. 

 

Also, the public funding scheme for the stadium was publicly announced in March 2022.  The 2022 election happened 8 months after this announcement. Kind of late for much "public debate" after a decision has been made, don't you think?

 

Anyway, There was no debate in front of voters.

I’ve mentioned this many times in the past on this topic. The stadium is at its core a large construction project. The money that goes into essentially stays right in WNY and is pumped right back into the local economy via construction worker’s paychecks who then use that money to buy goods, products and services right there in WNY, of which a large percentage goes right back into the State’s coffers in the form of property, sales, and income taxes. I’m sure it doesn’t make you feel any better, but is the absolute truth. There’s virtually no better investment of State money than a construction project. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’ve mentioned this many times in the past on this topic. The stadium is at its core a large construction project. The money that goes into essentially stays right in WNY and is pumped right back into the local economy via construction worker’s paychecks who then use that money to buy goods, products and services right there in WNY, of which a large percentage goes right back into the State’s coffers in the form of property, sales, and income taxes. I’m sure it doesn’t make you feel any better, but is the absolute truth. There’s virtually no better investment of State money than a construction project. 

 

That has been disproven and documented as false over the past 10 years or so.  There's not much truth to that statement. 

 

Local construction workers are already living and purchasing goods and services in Buffalo, paying state and local taxes, etc.  Outside workers brought in to work on the stadium will be gone and not contributing to the local economy after the place is built.

 

A public owned stadium is a massive disposable purchase.  Hymark will be torn down and the next stadium will be similarly disposed of whenever the current tenant wants a new(er) one.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That has been disproven and documented as false over the past 10 years or so.  There's not much truth to that statement. 

 

Local construction workers are already living and purchasing goods and services in Buffalo, paying state and local taxes, etc.  Outside workers brought in to work on the stadium will be gone and not contributing to the local economy after the place is built.

 

A public owned stadium is a massive disposable purchase.  Hymark will be torn down and the next stadium will be similarly disposed of whenever the current tenant wants a new(er) one.  

Oh brother. So you’re saying that NY State based contractors won’t be working on the stadium. Sure they won’t. The workers are all going to drive in from California every day. It’ll be a long day but it’s good work if you can get it. 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Oh brother. So you’re saying that NY State based contractors won’t be working on the stadium. Sure they won’t. The workers are all going to drive in from California every day. It’ll be a long day but it’s good work if you can get it. 

 

Maybe you missed this part:

 

"Local construction workers are already living and purchasing goods and services in Buffalo, paying state and local taxes, etc."

 

"Outside workers" ( meaning from outside of Erie County) would certainly include NY State based contractors and workers (who already are paying NYS taxes). 

 

Where's the long term net gain for Erie/NYS from people already living/working there?

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe you missed this part:

 

"Local construction workers are already living and purchasing goods and services in Buffalo, paying state and local taxes, etc."

 

"Outside workers" ( meaning from outside of Erie County) would certainly include NY State based contractors and workers (who already are paying NYS taxes). 

 

Where's the long term net gain for Erie/NYS from people already living/working there?

I’m not sure where you went to economics school but it doesn’t work that way. It is NOT a zero sum game! Using your premise, since everyone is already working, the stadium construction site will be empty. Not a single pick up truck to be found….cause everyone already has a job…or something like that. (Please excuse the snarky tone, but I think we ALL know by now that you hate the very idea of the project.) 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure where you went to economics school but it doesn’t work that way. It is NOT a zero sum game! Using your premise, since everyone is already working, the stadium construction site will be empty. Not a single pick up truck to be found….cause everyone already has a job…or something like that. (Please excuse the snarky tone, but I think we ALL know by now that you hate the very idea of the project.) 

 

I'm not sure what the hard part is here.  We agree most workers will be local or at least in state.  They will move to this project from others that are completed.  

 

Maybe you mean a large number of these individuals who will be working on the stadium are currently idle and not paying taxes or buying goods and services?

 

You're an architect.  You understand that contractors,  skilled labor and tradesman are in high demand.  Anyone who has wanted to build a house or do a major reno call tell you this:  you have to wait until the contractor/labor is available. 

[SoCal Deek]

59 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm not sure what the hard part is here.  We agree most workers will be local or at least in state.  They will move to this project from others that are completed.  

 

Maybe you mean a large number of these individuals who will be working on the stadium are currently idle and not paying taxes or buying goods and services?

 

You're an architect.  You understand that contractors,  skilled labor and tradesman are in high demand.  Anyone who has wanted to build a house or do a major reno call tell you this:  you have to wait until the contractor/labor is available. 

Yes I am. And I literally guarantee I know more about how the construction market works than you do. But go ahead, keep complaining. I’m sure your opinion has been duly noted by those in charge. 😉

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes I am. And I literally guarantee I know more about how the construction market works than you do. But go ahead, keep complaining. I’m sure your opinion has been duly noted by those in charge. 😉

 

I'm not complaining, just pointing out things and making corrections.

 

So where will all the new tax and services and goods buying come from if not from all the future stadium builders who are currently working on other sites and already paying taxes and buying goods and services?  Will they be moonlighting at the stadium factory until it is finished, thus generating all this new revenue locally and statewide?

[Just Jack]

22 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

not to mention there is no way in hell the league office and the other owners would have went for a billion dollar renovation of a 50 year old stadium. Never ever would have even been considered. Yet some people here talk about it like it would have been such a great option. 
 

And no don’t bring up Chicago. Totally different situation.

 

Would that be the same Chicago team that is moving away from their renovated stadium, just 20 years ago, to some place outside of the city? 

[SoCal Deek]

54 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm not complaining, just pointing out things and making corrections.

 

So where will all the new tax and services and goods buying come from if not from all the future stadium builders who are currently working on other sites and already paying taxes and buying goods and services?  Will they be moonlighting at the stadium factory until it is finished, thus generating all this new revenue locally and statewide?

Come on Weo….Let me ask you this? What do your prefer the State does with it’s tax money? Let me guess….social service programs? 

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

Would that be the same Chicago team that is moving away from their renovated stadium, just 20 years ago, to some place outside of the city? 

Actually yes! Thanks for reminding me - I know the original plan was to build onto Soldier Field yet again but now the plan is to move to a completely different site and new building. 
 

So yeah even that reno was abandoned. And yet it’s being floated here that “oh just rip out the rotting decks. Throw on a roof.” As if the league would have even agreed to that.