ChiGoose Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, wnyguy said: Thanks for the link. I guess we have to see what this document that Kemp is carrying on about actually was because it may be that the document was no longer Classified, or if it was a document that threatened national security then Trump should be held accountable. Even if it was not classified, it was illegal for Trump to possess it after he was notified to return it. 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: I'm not sure this is even the case. The presidential record act only applied to one of 'em! Nah, it applies to all of them. The ones who cooperated didn’t get charged. The one who obstructed, lied, and tried to destroy evidence got charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Even if it was not classified, it was illegal for Trump to possess it after he was notified to return it. Nah, it applies to all of them. The ones who cooperated didn’t get charged. The one who obstructed, lied, and tried to destroy evidence got charged. Biden was VP at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: Biden was VP at the time And if there is provable evidence that he *intentionally* took the documents he... won't get charged because the DoJ won't charge sitting presidents (remember when Mueller said Trump did a bunch of crimes and suggested he be impeached but he couldn't be charged?). However, he will be liable once he leaves office. And no, mere possession is not evidence of intent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Just now, ChiGoose said: remember when Mueller said Trump did a bunch of crimes and suggested he be impeached but he couldn't be charged? revisionist history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: And if there is provable evidence that he *intentionally* took the documents he... won't get charged because the DoJ won't charge sitting presidents (remember when Mueller said Trump did a bunch of crimes and suggested he be impeached but he couldn't be charged?). However, he will be liable once he leaves office. And no, mere possession is not evidence of intent. Pivot! Not charging a sitting president has nothing to do with the records act. It's an entirely different issue. Edited September 20, 2023 by Pokebball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Pivot! Not charging a sitting president has nothing to do with the records act. It's an entirely different issue. ...I was making a joke about why Biden isn't being charged... There's no difference in how the cases are being treated under how that law is enforced. Generally, if you turn over the documents when you are notified that you shouldn't have them, you won't get charged. This is to facilitate the return of documents. Even if Trump took the documents intentionally, if he had turned them over when the NRA asked, he would almost certainly have not been charged. From the perspective of the government, the most important thing is to get the materials back into their possession. Now, let's say hypothetically that you are told to turn the documents over and you refuse for almost a year. And then you lie to your lawyer, telling him he can review all of the documents when you've secretly had a bunch of them removed. And then you lie to the government, telling them you've turned them all over when in fact, you secretly kept a bunch of them. And then when you get notified that the government is going to subpoena your surveillance system, you order people to destroy the tapes. Well, in that case, you are probably going to get charged with crimes... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 6 hours ago, wnyguy said: Doesn't Trump, as President, have the ability to declassify documents as he sees fit? No. There are processes to declassify documents that are very precisely legally stated. https://www.justice.gov/archives/open/declassification/declassification-faq Trump did none of these required things. If you can find some official documents that state a President can declassify things by thinking it, please post it here. The truth is that you know he didn't even attempt to declassify any of the documents he used as a notepad. Trump showed he understood that there were documents he didn't attempt to declassify on a tape recording and that he could have attempted to do it while President. This is irrefutable, yet his supporters don't care about facts. This has been evident for years. 5 hours ago, Pokebball said: or, that alone can prevent the conviction Evidence of breaking the law can prevent conviction in which solar system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 On 9/19/2023 at 8:11 AM, Tenhigh said: I agree that Trump lies more, but surely can you admit that Biden is an incredibly prolific lair. Bump for @Kemp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Doc said: All I need to do is point out your hypocrisy. As for the classified document, can she prove that claim? This is the first time that you have admitted that if the charge is true, he's guilty. Beautiful. 2 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Bump for @Kemp. Thanks for the bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 3 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Well, in that case, you are probably going to get charged with crimes... and go to Jail? I sure hope so. lockhimup!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Kemp said: This is the first time that you have admitted that if the charge is true, he's guilty. Beautiful. Thanks for the bump! Are you reallt too big of a partisan hack to admit Biden lies a lot? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Kemp said: This is the first time that you have admitted that if the charge is true, he's guilty. Beautiful. Yup. Throw them both in jail. Or neither. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Tenhigh said: Are you reallt too big of a partisan hack to admit Biden lies a lot? Calling me a partisan hack in a place where people are saying Trump thought of declassifying documents, so they were declassified is rich. 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Yup. Throw them both in jail. Or neither. If Biden used classified docs as notepads and handed them to people without a security clearance, hang em both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 36 minutes ago, Kemp said: If Biden used classified docs as notepads and handed them to people without a security clearance, hang em both. No, merely possessing them is enough for Joke. He has no right to them, period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Doc said: No, merely possessing them is enough for Joke. He has no right to them, period. The law requires you prove intent and mere possession is insufficient to prove intent. I’m sorry this basic concept is so difficult for you but that’s how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: The law requires you prove intent and mere possession is insufficient to prove intent. I’m sorry this basic concept is so difficult for you but that’s how it works. When you have documents in your garage and next to your car that you visit every weekend for years, "I didn't know they were there" isn't a valid excuse. The documents at the Penn-Biden center, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 🤣 https://news.yahoo.com/trump-privately-frets-could-headed-133000744.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZHJ1ZGdlcmVwb3J0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABsBzYtIAHf0OLYKBmbDo1sbxGDkOMYepIQDOeDzVv-MmrB4VSAmeAh5vO4yUUm2mV9u0DGvS1uzIWO2lKjCFAwBXUFfaKnXVvP_K12n5lBSrNQD_OLVv6puW_GjDYIPBvapm6CbiX7K66MSHJLvH9aJEg30AF5YhkV4qmw0zAxC In the past several months, Donald Trump has had a burning question for some of his confidants and attorneys: Would the authorities make him wear “one of those jumpsuits” in prison? Edited September 21, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Doc said: When you have documents in your garage and next to your car that you visit every weekend for years, "I didn't know they were there" isn't a valid excuse. The documents at the Penn-Biden center, sure. It might be good enough for people to assume you’re guilty but it’s certainly not enough to get you charged. Edited September 21, 2023 by ChiGoose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: It might be good enough for people to assume you’re guilty but it’s certainly not enough to get you charged. I'm not talking charging him, since he can't be charged while he's President. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 57 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: The law requires you prove intent and mere possession is insufficient to prove intent. I’m sorry this basic concept is so difficult for you but that’s how it works. Yes, but he knows Medicine... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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