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Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 4:51 PM, wnyguy said:

Thanks for the link. I guess we have to see what this document that Kemp is carrying on about actually was because it may be that the document was no longer Classified, or if it was a document that threatened national security then Trump should be held accountable.

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Even if it was not classified, it was illegal for Trump to possess it after he was notified to return it. 

  On 9/20/2023 at 6:13 PM, Pokebball said:

I'm not sure this is even the case. The presidential record act only applied to one of 'em!

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Nah, it applies to all of them. The ones who cooperated didn’t get charged. The one who obstructed, lied, and tried to destroy evidence got charged. 

Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 6:14 PM, ChiGoose said:


Even if it was not classified, it was illegal for Trump to possess it after he was notified to return it. 


Nah, it applies to all of them. The ones who cooperated didn’t get charged. The one who obstructed, lied, and tried to destroy evidence got charged. 

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Biden was VP at the time

Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 6:20 PM, Pokebball said:

Biden was VP at the time

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And if there is provable evidence that he *intentionally* took the documents he... won't get charged because the DoJ won't charge sitting presidents (remember when Mueller said Trump did a bunch of crimes and suggested he be impeached but he couldn't be charged?). However, he will be liable once he leaves office.

 

And no, mere possession is not evidence of intent.

  • Eyeroll 1
Posted (edited)
  On 9/20/2023 at 6:24 PM, ChiGoose said:

 

And if there is provable evidence that he *intentionally* took the documents he... won't get charged because the DoJ won't charge sitting presidents (remember when Mueller said Trump did a bunch of crimes and suggested he be impeached but he couldn't be charged?). However, he will be liable once he leaves office.

 

And no, mere possession is not evidence of intent.

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Pivot! Not charging a sitting president has nothing to do with the records act. It's an entirely different issue.

Edited by Pokebball
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Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 6:30 PM, Pokebball said:

Pivot! Not charging a sitting president has nothing to do with the records act. It's an entirely different issue.

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...I was making a joke about why Biden isn't being charged...

 

There's no difference in how the cases are being treated under how that law is enforced. Generally, if you turn over the documents when you are notified that you shouldn't have them, you won't get charged. This is to facilitate the return of documents. Even if Trump took the documents intentionally, if he had turned them over when the NRA asked, he would almost certainly have not been charged. From the perspective of the government, the most important thing is to get the materials back into their possession.

 

Now, let's say hypothetically that you are told to turn the documents over and you refuse for almost a year.

And then you lie to your lawyer, telling him he can review all of the documents when you've secretly had a bunch of them removed.

And then you lie to the government, telling them you've turned them all over when in fact, you secretly kept a bunch of them.

And then when you get notified that the government is going to subpoena your surveillance system, you order people to destroy the tapes.

 

Well, in that case, you are probably going to get charged with crimes... 

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Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 3:35 PM, wnyguy said:

Doesn't Trump, as President, have the ability to declassify documents as he sees fit?

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No.

There are processes to declassify documents that are very precisely legally stated.

 

https://www.justice.gov/archives/open/declassification/declassification-faq

Trump did none of these required things.

If you can find some official documents that state a President can declassify things by thinking it, please post it here.

 

The truth is that you know he didn't even attempt to declassify any of the documents he used as a notepad.

 

Trump showed he understood that there were documents he didn't attempt to declassify on a tape recording and that he could have attempted to do it while President.

This is irrefutable, yet his supporters don't care about facts. This has been evident for years.

  On 9/20/2023 at 4:58 PM, Pokebball said:

or, that alone can prevent the conviction

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Evidence of breaking the law can prevent conviction in which solar system?

Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 5:35 PM, Doc said:

 

All I need to do is point out your hypocrisy.  

 

As for the classified document, can she prove that claim?

 

 

 

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This is the first time that you have admitted that if the charge is true, he's guilty.

Beautiful.

  On 9/20/2023 at 10:03 PM, Tenhigh said:

Bump for @Kemp.

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Thanks for the bump!

Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 10:05 PM, Kemp said:

 

This is the first time that you have admitted that if the charge is true, he's guilty.

Beautiful.

 

Thanks for the bump!

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Are you reallt too big of a partisan hack to admit Biden lies a lot?

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Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 10:05 PM, Kemp said:

This is the first time that you have admitted that if the charge is true, he's guilty.

Beautiful.

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Yup.  Throw them both in jail.  Or neither.

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Posted
  On 9/20/2023 at 10:15 PM, Tenhigh said:

Are you reallt too big of a partisan hack to admit Biden lies a lot?

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Calling me a partisan hack in a place where people are saying Trump thought of declassifying documents, so they were declassified is rich.

  On 9/21/2023 at 12:55 AM, Doc said:

 

Yup.  Throw them both in jail.  Or neither.

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If Biden used classified docs as notepads and handed them to people without a security clearance, hang em both.

Posted
  On 9/21/2023 at 1:01 AM, Kemp said:

If Biden used classified docs as notepads and handed them to people without a security clearance, hang em both.

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No, merely possessing them is enough for Joke.  He has no right to them, period. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Posted
  On 9/21/2023 at 1:38 AM, Doc said:

 

No, merely possessing them is enough for Joke.  He has no right to them, period. 

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The law requires you prove intent and mere possession is insufficient to prove intent. 
 

I’m sorry this basic concept is so difficult for you but that’s how it works. 

Posted
  On 9/21/2023 at 1:41 AM, ChiGoose said:

The law requires you prove intent and mere possession is insufficient to prove intent. 
 

I’m sorry this basic concept is so difficult for you but that’s how it works. 

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When you have documents in your garage and next to your car that you visit every weekend for years, "I didn't know they were there" isn't a valid excuse.  The documents at the Penn-Biden center, sure.

Posted (edited)

🤣

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-privately-frets-could-headed-133000744.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZHJ1ZGdlcmVwb3J0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABsBzYtIAHf0OLYKBmbDo1sbxGDkOMYepIQDOeDzVv-MmrB4VSAmeAh5vO4yUUm2mV9u0DGvS1uzIWO2lKjCFAwBXUFfaKnXVvP_K12n5lBSrNQD_OLVv6puW_GjDYIPBvapm6CbiX7K66MSHJLvH9aJEg30AF5YhkV4qmw0zAxC

 

In the past several months, Donald Trump has had a burning question for some of his confidants and attorneys:

Would the authorities make him wear “one of those jumpsuits” in prison?

 

Edited by Joe Ferguson forever
Posted (edited)
  On 9/21/2023 at 2:03 AM, Doc said:

 

When you have documents in your garage and next to your car that you visit every weekend for years, "I didn't know they were there" isn't a valid excuse.  The documents at the Penn-Biden center, sure.

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It might be good enough for people to assume you’re guilty but it’s certainly not enough to get you charged. 

Edited by ChiGoose
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Posted
  On 9/21/2023 at 2:23 AM, ChiGoose said:

It might be good enough for people to assume you’re guilty but it’s certainly not enough to get you charged. 

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I'm not talking charging him, since he can't be charged while he's President.

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