Roundybout Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Just now, Precision said: The UAW is toast once Chinese EV's start to penetrate the US market. Shawn's a little late realizing that the administrations EV push is going to eliminate UAW jobs. China’s automakers take the world by storm with electric vehicle push "Chinese electric cars, cheaper than models built elsewhere, are making inroads in Europe, Australia and Southeast Asia. Competitors worry that Chinese brands may eventually dominate the global EV market." "The average price of an EV in China was €31,829 ($34,096) in the first half of 2022, compared with €55,821 ($59,797) in Europe and €63,864 ($68,429) in the United States, the firm said in a report last year." Sure but these companies did it to themselves. They fought EV development and now they’re going to be caught with their pants down. We’re watching creative destruction happen in real-time. It will be up to them to adapt. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 12 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: So why are they planning on lowering them between three and six times in 2024. cuz they thought they needed to stimulate the economy. Now they're thinking maybe not. it's hot enough. 13 minutes ago, Precision said: The UAW is toast once Chinese EV's start to penetrate the US market. Shawn's a little late realizing that the administrations EV push is going to eliminate UAW jobs. China’s automakers take the world by storm with electric vehicle push "Chinese electric cars, cheaper than models built elsewhere, are making inroads in Europe, Australia and Southeast Asia. Competitors worry that Chinese brands may eventually dominate the global EV market." "The average price of an EV in China was €31,829 ($34,096) in the first half of 2022, compared with €55,821 ($59,797) in Europe and €63,864 ($68,429) in the United States, the firm said in a report last year." it's called capitalism. eat or be eaten... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) State choosing with huge spending isn't close to capitalism free markets Edited January 25 by Tommy Callahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 21 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: cuz they thought they needed to stimulate the economy. Now they're thinking maybe not. it's hot enough. it's called capitalism. eat or be eaten... thick tommy vehemently disagrees. So much so that he can't explain his objection! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 45 minutes ago, Roundybout said: Sure but these companies did it to themselves. They fought EV development and now they’re going to be caught with their pants down. We’re watching creative destruction happen in real-time. It will be up to them to adapt. Beyond the wave of 1st adopters, a majority of auto buyers don't want EV's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Just now, All_Pro_Bills said: Beyond the wave of 1st adopters, a majority of auto buyers don't want EV's. I wouldn’t want an early one either due to price or range anxiety, but the technology is improving every single day. I think they’re going to be much more pallatable when you see electric trucks and vans like the electric Microbus that Volkswagen is making. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 20 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Beyond the wave of 1st adopters, a majority of auto buyers don't want EV's. The current mandate is for 50% of NEW vehicles to be zero emissions (x Cali). No one is stopping anyone from driving their new 2030 gas F150 or their 2010 mustang. A majority of Floridians want to be able to buy home insurance and live above water.... 19 minutes ago, Roundybout said: I wouldn’t want an early one either due to price or range anxiety, but the technology is improving every single day. I think they’re going to be much more pallatable when you see electric trucks and vans like the electric Microbus that Volkswagen is making. I drove several recently: Subaru's new EV is awesome. My fav was the Ford e150. But I bought a WRX for fun and a 6 speed. those are already pretty rare and will disappear with EV's. My next car/truck will definitely be electric. Waing to drive the electric outback in a couple years when they come out. Edited January 25 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: The current mandate is for 50% of NEW vehicles to be zero emissions (x Cali). No one is stopping anyone from driving their new 2030 gas F150 or their 2010 mustang. A majority of Floridians want to be able to buy home insurance and live above water.... I drove several recently: Subaru's new EV is awesome. My fav was the Ford e150. But I bought a WRX for fun and a 6 speed. those are already pretty rare and will disappear with EV's. My next car/truck will definitely be electric. Waing to drive the electric outback in a couple years when they come out. I do agree and I’m going to run my beloved Honda Fit into the ground. I wouldn’t mind an EV like a Bolt or something, maybe the new electric Beetle that Volkswagen is teasing for the Super Bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 It's just funny reading lefties tell us this crap economy is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Wonder how they will spin how great the economy is, when earning reports start coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 7 minutes ago, Roundybout said: I do agree and I’m going to run my beloved Honda Fit into the ground. I wouldn’t mind an EV like a Bolt or something, maybe the new electric Beetle that Volkswagen is teasing for the Super Bowl I would have bit on the F150 lightning. my wife didn't want it. Basically costs nothing to own for 24 month deal. List is $70,000, rebates (state and fed) = 11500. can buy at invoice which is even lower. residual value of the truck in 2 years is 85% list 0r a little under 60k... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 22 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: The current mandate is for 50% of NEW vehicles to be zero emissions (x Cali). No one is stopping anyone from driving their new 2030 gas F150 or their 2010 mustang. A majority of Floridians want to be able to buy home insurance and live above water.... At this point the climate change argument is a zero sum game because if you're burning coal and natural gas to produce electricity to power your vehicle fleet in order to avoid burning gasoline to power your vehicle fleet then its just moving the carbon emissions to another point in the delivery system. It just provide a feel-good moment for EV drivers to believe they're doing something positive about the climate. When there's a renewable grid powering the majority EV charging let us know. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 20 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Wonder how they will spin how great the economy is, when earning reports start coming out. What? Like IBM's? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2024-01-25/ibm-rallies-most-in-20-years-after-strong-2024-outlook-video 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 17 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: At this point the climate change argument is a zero sum game because if you're burning coal and natural gas to produce electricity to power your vehicle fleet in order to avoid burning gasoline to power your vehicle fleet then its just moving the carbon emissions to another point in the delivery system. It just provide a feel-good moment for EV drivers to believe they're doing something positive about the climate. When there's a renewable grid powering the majority EV charging let us know. not what the dept of energy says https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html Don't you guys ever check facts? guess not. not embarrassed about it either. in the last 2 days, I've disproven "factual" misinformation from 3 of your tribe. why not actually look stuff up? Edited January 25 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: not what the dept of energy says https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html Its says about 58% of electricity nationally is provided by coal and nat gas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Its says about 58% of electricity nationally is provided by coal and nat gas. no. it says that all electric vehicles emit less than 1/5 the emissions of all gas vehicles taking into account the energy source used to charge them. problems with reading too? "Conventional vehicles with an internal combustion engine (ICE) produce direct emissions through the tailpipe, as well as through evaporation from the vehicle's fuel system and during the fueling process. Conversely, all-electric vehicles produce zero direct emissions. PHEVs produce zero direct emissions when they are in all-electric mode, but they can produce evaporative emissions. When using the ICE, PHEVs produce tailpipe emissions. However, their direct emissions are typically lower than those of comparable conventional vehicles. Well-to-wheel emissions include all emissions related to fuel production, processing, distribution, and use. In the case of gasoline, emissions are produced while extracting petroleum from the earth, refining it, distributing the fuel to stations, and burning it in vehicles. In the case of electricity, most electric power plants produce emissions, and there are additional emissions associated with the extraction, processing, and distribution of the primary energy sources they use for electricity production. Cradle-to-grave emissions include all emissions considered on a well-to-wheel basis as well as vehicle-cycle emissions associated with vehicle and battery manufacturing, recycling, and disposal." Edited January 25 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Its says about 58% of electricity nationally is provided by coal and nat gas. Ya, now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Ya, now. these dudes just make shite up and I guess expect no one will check. Bonnie boy was certain that D's voted in the R NH primary. Even doubled down on it. Then when proven wrong, just ignores it. We are fighting a shameless tribe with no honor. Edited January 25 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 24 minutes ago, Tiberius said: What? Like IBM's? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2024-01-25/ibm-rallies-most-in-20-years-after-strong-2024-outlook-video Think non military They are doing pretty good with bidens foreign policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Think non military They are doing pretty good with bidens foreign policy cmon thick tommy. double down and tell me where i was wrong on emissions and alpo was right... Edited January 25 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, Roundybout said: Sure but these companies did it to themselves. They fought EV development and now they’re going to be caught with their pants down. We’re watching creative destruction happen in real-time. It will be up to them to adapt. I'm not sure fought is the correct term. Toyota has predicted EV penetration to peak at 30%. Does it make sense to invest large amounts of money into a product that only 30% of customers will purchase? If the penetration is large (which I doubt) ultimately it will be the UAW workers that bear the brunt of the pain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 13 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: these dudes just make shite up and I guess expect no one will check. Bonnie boy was certain that D's voted in the R NH primary. Even doubled down on it. Then when proven wrong, just ignores it. We are fighting a shameless tribe with no honor. This is MAGA .... 12 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Think non military They are doing pretty good with bidens foreign policy You are a complete idiot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Precision said: Toyota has predicted EV penetration to peak at 30%. in what period of time? assuming 50% of production is ev? link? love the comments here: this one especially: In 1980, McKinsey & Company was commissioned by AT&T (whose Bell Labs had invented cellular telephony) to forecast cell phone penetration in the U.S. by 2000. The consultant's prediction, 900,000 subscribers, was less than 1% of the actual figure, 109 Million. Based on this legendary mistake, AT&T decided there was not much future to these toys. A decade later, to rejoin the cellular market, AT&T had to acquire McCaw Cellular for $12.6 Billion. By 2011, the number of subscribers worldwide had surpassed 5 Billion and cellular communication had become an unprecedented technological revolution. Edited January 25 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: in what period of time? assuming 50% of production is ev? link? Toyota’s chairman doubles down on his electric car skepticism, forecasting that EV adoption will peak at just 30% "The auto executive estimated that around a billion people still live in areas without electricity, which limits the appeal of a battery electric vehicle. Toyoda estimated that fully-electric cars will only capture 30% of the market, with the remainder taken up with hybrids or vehicles that use hydrogen technology." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Just now, Precision said: Toyota’s chairman doubles down on his electric car skepticism, forecasting that EV adoption will peak at just 30% "The auto executive estimated that around a billion people still live in areas without electricity, which limits the appeal of a battery electric vehicle. Toyoda estimated that fully-electric cars will only capture 30% of the market, with the remainder taken up with hybrids or vehicles that use hydrogen technology." yes i just read it. places without electricity account for 70% of sales? c'mon. people in those places don't buy new cars often. he's covering for their mistake in falling behind. At a recent Toyota company event, Toyoda gave some rationality to his disbeliefs towards battery electric vehicles (BEVs), noting that much has to be done in order to have an functioning ecosystem that supports its seamless use. "BEVs and FCEVs [fuel cell vehicles] come as a set with infrastructure," Toyoda said in a statement translated from Japanese. "However, one billion people around the world live in areas without electricity. In the case of Toyota, we also supply vehicles to these regions, so a single BEV option cannot provide transportation for everyone." The chairman claimed that since the introduction of hybrid cars in its domestic market, Japan has reduced its CO2 emissions by 23%. Emphasizing the belief of "freedom of movement," he had a very stark prediction about the future of electric vehicles. well, at least we've ascertained that alpo is full of shite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 What is this fourth-quarter stuff that I’m hearing doesn’t sound too bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yes i just read it. places without electricity account for 70% of sales? c'mon. people in those places don't buy new cars often. he's covering for their mistake in falling behind. At a recent Toyota company event, Toyoda gave some rationality to his disbeliefs towards battery electric vehicles (BEVs), noting that much has to be done in order to have an functioning ecosystem that supports its seamless use. "BEVs and FCEVs [fuel cell vehicles] come as a set with infrastructure," Toyoda said in a statement translated from Japanese. "However, one billion people around the world live in areas without electricity. In the case of Toyota, we also supply vehicles to these regions, so a single BEV option cannot provide transportation for everyone." The chairman claimed that since the introduction of hybrid cars in its domestic market, Japan has reduced its CO2 emissions by 23%. Emphasizing the belief of "freedom of movement," he had a very stark prediction about the future of electric vehicles. well, at least we've ascertained that alpo is full of shite He is correct. There are areas of the world that will never have the charging infrastructure required to support EV's. The 30% EV penetration number may not be accurate but there will forever be a significant percentage of vehicles sold that in the world that are not EV's. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 The stock market went up significantly during Trumps Presidency, the Left dismissed it as a nothing more than coattailing off Obama, which it did very well under. The DJI grew 44.6% under Trump and 21% under Biden. The Nasdaq composite index is up 13.8% under Biden and was up 62% for Trump. https://www.axios.com/2024/01/01/biden-trump-stock-market-performance Now who is coattiling? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, US Egg said: The stock market went up significantly during Trumps Presidency, the Left dismissed it as a nothing more than coattailing off Obama, which it did very well under. The DJI grew 44.6% under Trump and 21% under Biden. The Nasdaq composite index is up 13.8% under Biden and was up 62% for Trump. https://www.axios.com/2024/01/01/biden-trump-stock-market-performance Now who is coattiling? Both are off Obama. Next? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 As American as apple pie and baseball. We can compete. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: As American as apple pie and baseball. We can compete. That thing is a turd unfortunately. I was really hoping electric trucks would be something but the tech just isn't there yet. Give me a diesel super duty every day of the week and twice on Sundays 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 10 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: That thing is a turd unfortunately. I was really hoping electric trucks would be something but the tech just isn't there yet. Give me a diesel super duty every day of the week and twice on Sundays it's early. I saw a towing package on the gm ev. not important to me. I thought it was a great ride. Will do everything i need. maybe in a couple years they'll improve the range with better battery tech. If that comes from China, so be it. We should be able to beat them and I think we will. But MAGA's aint gonna make it happen. Also wondering why residual value on a 2 yr lease is worth 85% of retail if it's such a "turd". Edited January 25 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: it's early. I saw a towing package on the gm ev. not important to me. I thought it was a great ride. Will do everything i need. maybe in a couple years they'll improve the range with better battery tech. If that comes from China, so be it. Range and charging are important. All of the EV manufacturers jumping on the Tesla supercharger network will help but nobody wants to track down a charging station and then sit there for an hour to charge. Resale value is going to be a concern as well. We might get to the point where we have disposable vehicles as nobody wants to buy a 10 year old EV that only charges to 75% and a new battery costs more than the car. On paper electric could be something but when it comes to work trucks you just can't compromise which is what everyone who owns an EV is doing whether they want to admit it or not. I will be in the market for a truck and it seems dumb to buy a diesel now but that's what I'm probably going to have to do if I want to tow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Range and charging are important. All of the EV manufacturers jumping on the Tesla supercharger network will help but nobody wants to track down a charging station and then sit there for an hour to charge. Resale value is going to be a concern as well. We might get to the point where we have disposable vehicles as nobody wants to buy a 10 year old EV that only charges to 75% and a new battery costs more than the car. On paper electric could be something but when it comes to work trucks you just can't compromise which is what everyone who owns an EV is doing whether they want to admit it or not. I will be in the market for a truck and it seems dumb to buy a diesel now but that's what I'm probably going to have to do if I want to tow. doesn't seem dumb. Turbo + diesel= magic. turbos in gas cars- not so good as I can attest (have blown 3 turbos) but getting better. But these are aimed at early adopters. People who like tech and want to be environmentally conscience. They will make them to suit your needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Let’s go Brandon! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BillStime said: Let’s go Brandon! Only 3½ years into his term he finally gets the ball rolin' huh. Well bully for you, you must be so proud Edited January 26 by TSOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Just now, TSOL said: Only 3½ years into his term he finally gets the ball rolin' huh. Well bully for you, you must be so proud Oh - did Trump hand off the same economy he received from Obama? No - and you know it. Did Trumps “amazing” economy require a $3 trillion dollar bailout at the “beginning” of COVID? Yes it did - and you know it. You point to the last global pandemic - and the US (leading out of all other developed countries) has turned it around this fast. F out of here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BillStime said: Oh - did Trump hand off the same economy he received from Obama? No - and you know it. Did Trumps “amazing” economy require a $3 trillion dollar bailout at the “beginning” of COVID? Yes it did - and you know it. You point to the last global pandemic - and the US (leading out of all other developed countries) has turned it around this fast. F out of here Oh sit down and shut up junior He's riding the coattails of Trump's economy before the toilet paper hoarder's took over for a short period. Edited January 26 by TSOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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