Do you still trust the defense at all?

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

I have issues with the 12 “yes” responses to question 3. 
 

But my mind is blown that anyone can say “no” to questions 1 and 2 and yes to question 3. Being good at 3 is what gives you 1 and 2. 
 

And we flat out STINK at 3. 

I mean Christian Benford and Dane Jackson being even "able to start NFL games" from a talent evaluation and development perspective is pretty impressive.  Milano went from 5th round pick to All-Pro.  Tre was a star out of the box until he got hurt.  Poyer and Hyde were bargain FA's who became stars. Levi Wallace the UDFA started on this team and held his own.

 

You can argue that it wasn't good enough, and in a lot of examples, I would agree.  Especially at the most important defensive position (pass rush). But I think they are still pretty good talent evaluators.

[HoofHearted]

7 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Go watch cover 1’s YouTube video about the last game. Very informative watch , and to me , if this doesn’t spell the end of this scheme and Frazier , I personally have no hope they will make it further than their 4-5 playoff record has proven to be their ceiling.
There were moments when cincy and burrows could not move the ball.  Unfortunately the coverages and schemes that were successful that day were used less than 10, maybe less than 5 % of the snaps.   Then Frazier/ Mcd reverted to coverages that Burrows was abusing and the players were put in horrible positions.  

I am not saying the talent is not lacking , it really is. Yet it’s amazing they had a 14-4 record , so scheme can effect most teams even with our very average talent , until you face good coaching staffs with players and qbs who can execute their counters well.  Not arguing the out played / physical part , but even with good talent , if Frazier is allowed to keep complicating the defensive reads so much and refuses to use what was working , he will continue to cost this team progressing even with elite talent as they will only play if they do what they are told to do ; they are not going to let players just free lance regardless of their talent.  Miller was even placed on a rotating basis as a 2x SB champ , hof talent.  This is about Mcd / Frazier changing to playing complicated, scared coverages at playoff time.  

I’m sure Cover 1 did a good job; they usually do. It doesn’t change the fact that there isn’t a scheme in the world that will overcome getting physically dominated at the point of attack all game long.

 

The bolded part made me laugh. Unfortunately, I feel like this is common thinking around here. Football has rules regardless of the scheme you’re in. This idea that players can just go out and “free-lance” is amusing to me.

[BillzFreak]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I’m sure Cover 1 did a good job; they usually do. It doesn’t change the fact that there isn’t a scheme in the world that will overcome getting physically dominated at the point of attack all game long.

 

The bolded part made me laugh. Unfortunately, I feel like this is common thinking around here. Football has rules regardless of the scheme you’re in. This idea that players can just go out and “free-lance” is amusing to me.

 I'm still wondering why we never try press coverage and always defer to just playing back. Isn't it possible that on passing plays maybe being up on receivers would possibly give the d line that extra time to get home? Also when Burrow dropped back to pass the ball was right out, even Von Miller at 100% wasn't getting there in time. So how come he refuses to even try any sort of tighter coverage on receivers?

[John from Riverside]

Are we talking during the regular season or in the playoffs?
 

During the regular season, we lost three games by a total of eight points combined

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

9 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

I voted No across the board.  This is not a Super Bowl caliber Defense.  Go and watch San Francisco's Defense.  That's a championship Defense.  With that said the Bills bread and butter was supposed to be an Offensive juggernaut and if that materializes you can still go far with an alright Defense but we got exposed on both sides last weekend.  

 

 Ok. When we watch San Frans Defense are they going to have all their best players out hurt or playing no where near 100%? Like 4 out of their top 5 defenders and 2 others out and another playing with only one arm. Are they going to be on their #3 and then #4 FS?

 

 Did you forget that 7 games into the season our defense was just as good as theirs was and against better competition? This would've been a much better defense if it wasn't for the injuries. 4 All-Pros either out or no where near 100%.

 

 

 

 

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Ok. When we watch San Frans Defense are they going to have all their best players out hurt or playing no where near 100%? Like 4 out of their top 5 defenders and 2 others out and another playing with only one arm. Are they going to be on their #3 and then #4 FS?

 

 Did you forget that 7 games into the season our defense was just as good as theirs was and against better competition? This would've been a much better defense if it wasn't for the injuries. 4 All-Pros either out or no where near 100%.

 

 

 

 

The injuries sucked but we still had Rousseau, Ed, Epenesa, Boogie Basham.  These are all guys Beane drafted in the first two rounds in recent years and they still can't get any pressure going.  These are huge misses.  I like Edmunds and Milano and I recognize the secondary was banged up but my biggest gripe with the Bills for years is not being able to build a dominant Defensive Line which is a necessity if you want to build a championship team.  

[KOKBILLS]

I voted no on all 3...But I'm really surprised at the poll results so far. 70% to question #3 is substantial...

 

I had to say no to #3 because it's my humble opinion that this Defensive scheme, and the weird way it devolved this year, is figured out somehow. What I saw this year, even in the game that Zack Wilson played, was one guy wide open way too often. And QB whoever just playing pitch and catch for YAC...I totally realize the Bills had injury problems all over...I get it. But are they blowing coverage and just out-of-position THAT much? If so, then coaching is an even bigger issue. I know the scoring Defense is usually great, but Offenses are getting better and better...Even in our Division. And you get killed on those easy plays vs the really good teams...

 

Miami scored 17 points in consecutive weeks vs San Fran and SD...The entire NFL football community was talking about the specific Defensive approach the West Coast teams played vs Tua. Miami goes to Buffalo and scores 29. Then the following week it's 20 against Green Bay. In the SD/SF/GB games the fish averaged 301 total yards. They got 405 total at Buffalo. 

 

Then Cincy...

 

First I saw this from Anthony at Cover 1...

 

The Baltimore Ravens vs the Bengals in the wild card:

-light box rate of 80%

-2-high shell rate of 80%

-blitz rate of 10%

-3 man rush rate of 18%

 

Then I saw the Cover 1 Chart on Burrow. His lowest success rate and completion percentage over expected (-12.83) was vs 3 man rush Defenses.

 

I thought this was right up the Bills alley...I really did. They can't pass rush with any consistency anyway. I really thought they would advance scout and come out dropping 8 a lot from the beginning. It would have been a twist at least! But I'm not sure they ever saw that stat? They may have rushed 3 a few times last Sunday...But I did not catch it. Maybe I'm wrong. And I did see some blitzes, which are generally ill advised vs Burrow. Especially rushing more than 5...

 

I do agree with Mango's post above that part of it is the play calls vs the situation. But goodness they got that wrong a lot this year. Seemed like way too may 3rd and 10's or more were converted. 

 

I contend teams know how to beat this Defense easier now. For whatever reason. And it's only going to get harder if they try to stay the course with their stubbornness. Teams understand how to manufacture space to get a guy wide open vs this Bills D way too often. That's a Coaching philosophy problem McD must solve. It can be done. It's fixable. But I think they need some new eyes in that room to see it. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by KOKBILLS

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, BillsPride12 said:

The injuries sucked but we still had Rousseau, Ed, Epenesa, Boogie Basham.  These are all guys Beane drafted in the first two rounds in recent years and they still can't get any pressure going.  These are huge misses.  I like Edmunds and Milano and I recognize the secondary was banged up but my biggest gripe with the Bills for years is not being able to build a dominant Defensive Line which is a necessity if you want to build a championship team.  

 

 That did nothing but skirt around the question. Could San Frans defense hold Cincy down with 2 of their top 5 defenders out, 2 out of their top 5 playing nowhere near 100%. Another 2 starters(Hamlin & Jones) out and another guy playing with 1 arm?  The answer is no. They got smoked by KC, Mahomes had 423 and a passer rating of 132 and Tua just missed a 300 yard game(295). That was the only 2 top 10 passing offenses they played all year.

 

 Get rid of their best pass rusher & their Free Safety. Their Strong Safety & best CB are now 1 legged & the Strong Safety now only has 1 good arm. That backup Free Safety, he's now gone, on to your #3 and you're going to lose him in the game, so on to your #4. The one armed & 1 legged Strong Safety, he's going to get hurt in the game as well, on to #2. We haven't even got to losing your most important big man in the middle of that defense, on to #2, another big guy in the middle now only has 1 good arm.

 

 Their defense would get crushed, just like ours did.

 

 

 

 

[Blazman11]

To be fair I’ve never trusted the D at any point. They have a history of imploding against any decent offense. 

[Buffalo ill]

I am confident they will hold really bad offenses to low scores in the regular season.  

[ChrisWatson#21]

When you play five DB sets all the time and still can’t cover receivers you’re in bad shape man.  Time to change philosophy.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

When you play five DB sets all the time and still can’t cover receivers you’re in bad shape man.  Time to change philosophy.

Our pass rush is beyond terrible. It had nothing to do with the DBs. 

[fathersnowman]

as most replies given, i would like to see the d line get a lot younger.. the defensive coach gone,...lets get a nasty defence, sick and tired of giving up third and longs . If we score 30 points a game, then that should be enough to win most games.

i need to see fight and a frazier replacement in place asap.

Mc D needs to be accountable for the team as well.