Question for OC Dorsey

[Green Lightning]

17 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Cook literally scored a long TD within the last few weeks on a draw. Do people even watch games anymore or do they just randomly comment with having no knowledge?

Maybe do it more?

[Drew21PA]

I just don’t understand why after James cook had 20 plus yards on two Carrie’s - you go back to the air that quickly

 

(Beasley int)

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

24 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

It appears to me that at times there is a lack of imagination. Too much bread and butter.

A young inexperienced coach can get too cautious under pressure and forget what got them there. Dorseys heart must be racing and only experience can keep your head clear with all that adrenaline. He has all the weight, last year he shared it.

Bringing Cole back helped in his processing but he misses keeping a wide field for much of the game. 

I don't mean to poop on him, just realize he is not yet Dabol or Reid, but he will get there.

I just don’t see how that applies to yesterday but you could certainly say that about other games I’m sure.  If your receiver can run straight by the defender outside the numbers you throw it to him lol. It’s as simple as that.  Miami was bringing the house and covering man to man.  No imagination necessary just gotta beat your guy and the sideline is what they were leaving open.  We had to hit on a couple more of those easy pitch and catches to make that game more comfortable and we just failed to do so.  Most games teams take away the deep stuff to make us nickel and dime them down the field but Miami did the complete opposite.  We just executed the gameplan to beat what Miami was doing pretty poorly.  
 

Miami had to jam in single coverage/blitz a lot as a huge underdog to try to generate sacks and turnovers and they were pretty lucky to not lose by more imo.  Should’ve been an easy cover even with the three turnovers we just missed out on a ton of additional points.  

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[K-9]

Forget questions for Dorsey. What he needs are answers.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

I just don’t understand why after James cook had 20 plus yards on two Carrie’s - you go back to the air that quickly

 

(Beasley int)

We continued to run rather ineffectively in the second half…mostly 1 or 2 yard gains.  I can understand why people don’t like it because a lot of times in the past josh got deep ball happy when it wasn’t really warranted but that was the right gameplan yesterday.  

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Maybe do it more?

 

You know things can be gameplan specific to attack weaknesses of teams right?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

So apparently the play was designed to go to Knox, with some good underneath options if Knox wasn't available.  That's all per the Twitterverse so who knows but it sounds right.  Brown apparently was running a clearout route, which would explain why he did not expect the ball.  If that's all true, I'm not sure what Dorsey is supposed to do.  He can't keep all the routes short because that will crowd the backfield.  Allen simply refuses to play within the structure of the offense despite it hurting the team multiple times this season.  He gives the obligatory "I made some bad decisions and I'll learn from it" quip at the end of the game but the words ring hollow at this point - he's just not yet a grownup.  I love the guy, he's my favorite athlete to root for, ever, but he is not a grownup.  As I said elsewhere, it may take him having to stew an entire offseason about throwing away a playoff game for him to change his ways.  Last year's AFCCG was the opposite - the hero ball worked, the post-season narrative was all about how if Josh got the ball back, he would've scored again - the NFL even changed the rules to make sure Josh will get the ball back next time.  If anything it added kerosene to the fire.  At this point I just don't know what will get him to change.  Whatever it is, Dorsey isn't up to it - he treats Dorsey like a substitute teacher.

I had a great view of this play from my seat.  Brown was open he just lost the ball in the sun and stopped his route.  Xavien Howard was completely turned around and was able to make the play because brown was lost.  

 

it’s all hindsight really…I’m sure he has completed tds to clearout routes before and nobody cares because it worked.  Didn’t strike me as a bad decision at all 

 

this ‘hero ball’ complaint is getting trite at this point.  Apparently any throw that’s not a checkdown is hero ball now.  When the defense is jamming everybody and not giving safety help to the outside receivers you’re going to be throwing deep a lot I don’t care who your qb is.  
 

there weren’t really any hero ball plays this game…maybe that cross field bomb to diggs that ended up being an absolute perfect throw somehow he just couldn’t come down with it.  The fumble was definitely on josh though.  

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

You know things can be gameplan specific to attack weaknesses of teams right?

Idk how many times I can say that about this specific game lol Miami was giving us the deep throws and jamming the underneath stuff hard to try to get their pass rush home.  Thank goodness fans don’t call the game.  
 

not trying to tell people Dorsey always calls a great game and josh has certainly gone deep in the past when it wasn’t always warranted,   in this particular game it was warranted though 😁

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Buffalo03]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

He isn't really. Allen has check downs on every play that he can go to.

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And gave them 2 short fields with special teams blunders.

Why didn't Bass just have someone hold the damn ball. He kept trying to compress it and it wouldn't stay on the tee.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

18 hours ago, JMM said:

Are you familiar with the following concepts: RB screen, TE screen, bubble screen, draw, delayed draw, quick slant, quick out, go and stop, etc.  I'm no OC, but it seems to me that there are experts in the NFL that believe these are effective concepts against cover zero. Thanks for your attention.  Now...back to calling your seven step drop duo go routes.....

Kurt Warner debunked this myth that there are no designed checkdowns in the offense.

 

Thanks.

 

Been debunked. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

Yeah these route trees by Dorsey that puts 2 wrs too close to each other is a problem.

[Buffalo03]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Yeah these route trees by Dorsey that puts 2 wrs too close to each other is a problem.

It happens every game and drives me insane

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

Miami was all over the short routes in this one…that was their whole gameplan.  Give us the deep long developing stuff so they can send the house and it becomes a race between our outside receivers beating the jam and their pass rush.  Spreading the field with deep routes was the right call whether fans like it or not. 

[Buffalo03]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Miami was all over the short routes in this one…that was their whole gameplan.  Give us the deep long developing stuff so they can send the house and it becomes a race between our outside receivers beating the jam and their pass rush.  Spreading the field with deep routes was the right call whether fans like it or not. 

They have been doing it every week. Majority of plays have had every pass catcher on the field running 20 yards up the field. It's not Miami sitting on those routes. Those routes aren't really happening much anymore

[GoBills808]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I enjoy your posts and respect your acumen.  You have to be the most optimistic Bills fan I’ve encountered. I can’t recall one negative post that you’ve ever made.  
 

that said-  there are things to worry about.  A poor Miami D sacked us 7 times, Josh fumbled 3 times and threw 2 picks. The OL is terrible in pass protection.  Our OC only dialed up zero targets for Cook and motor. 
 

It’s not the end of the world and next week is a new game. A new game plan and hopefully better play from the OL can bring better results. Our offense is great- but it was way too 17 dependent yesterday behind an OL that couldn’t protect him. 

You won't find me saying it was a great game from Allen 

 

All I'm saying if the expectation is 70% for 400 and 4/0 (which is his line minus the picks and drops) we should probably examine why that is and if it's very realistic

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

No he doesn't. On some plays he does. But I can't tell you how many times yesterday watching the game with a friend whenever they showed a replay of almost any pass play, all WRs were running 20 yards or more up the field. It's causing plays longer to develop and making Allen throw more picks. Allen doesn't go from being a safe check down guy back to back years to just not giving a f*ck anymore on purpose. He's throwing more deep passes all game long because that is where the routes are on the field most plays and it's also causing 2 WRs to be in the same area of the field too often. Even the pick that went off Beasley's hands, Beasley was like 15 yards up the field. He usually only runs small 5 yard routes. Dorsey is the problem 

 

That was the Daboll move that used to kill the Fins because they play so much man coverage. Allen's legs was the checkdown. He would just take off running up the middle for huge yardage. It was there yesterday too but the Fins were ready for it. They let him think it was there then closed it down as soon as he took off running for it.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Big Turk

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

That was the Daboll move that used to kill the Fins because they play so much man coverage. Allen's legs was the checkdown. He would just take off running up the middle for huge yardage. It was there yesterday too but the Fins were ready for it.

Then explain why Allen hasn't thrown the check downs much all season? This isn't about yesterday or routes being taken away, it's about an offensive coordinator drawing up plays where our WRs are constantly running too far up the field

Edited January 16, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Big Turk]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Then explain why Allen hasn't thrown the check downs much all season? This isn't about yesterday or routes being taken away, it's about an offensive coordinator drawing up plays where are WRs are constantly running too far up the field

 

My God man, do you even watch the games? He HAS thrown them a LOT this year. The first two games of the year we were complaining as to why all of the throws were checkdowns.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

They have been doing it every week. Majority of plays have had every pass catcher on the field running 20 yards up the field. It's not Miami sitting on those routes. Those routes aren't really happening much anymore

That early catch to diggs was a quick slant where he got jammed and was completely off balance and came down with it still.  They were jamming the heck out of short routes all game long. That deep 3rd and 1 to shakir Knox ran a 2 yard under route and he legit got tossed 5 yards back into the line of scrimmage lol.  
 

Not trying to say you’re wrong about previous games necessarily…I was not at any of the other games to compare.

but in this one the go routes were there all game long we just did not connect on enough of them to win comfortably.  Josh easily could’ve gone for 500+ passing yards with 5-6 tds with that gameplan even with the 7 sacks/3 turnovers.  just a little bit off on so many plays.