TSW Mock Draft 2.0 Poll - Who should the Bills take at #57

[Richard Noggin]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

That first drive was all Mahomes avoiding rushers to create first down…

 

And the part of the defense that was actually working on those pressure plays was the secondary, ironically, in that coverage forced Mahomes to hold onto the ball at least long enough for the pass rushers to beat their blocks and have the opportunity to then throw up all over themselves. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Don’t really think a first round CB moves the needle for them against KC…. Thought it was obvious their pass rushers inability to finish Mahomes created a lot of problems for them in that game… some coaching ***** ups to end regulation and the defense was gassed to end the game. 
 

Defense wasn’t the reason this team went into a tailspin in the middle of the season…. They had issues blocking and most importantly scoring points which ***** up home field and a BYE for them.

 

Youre worried about a lull in the middle season yet ignoring defense bounced us THREE consecutive years from the playoffs.  

 

PS:  Our offense averaged 41 points per game in the playoffs with 3 total punts...Josh Allen had almost 800 yards and 9 TDs in 2 games with zero interceptions and zero fumbles.  

 

But tell me how the offense was the problem again...and not the 42 points we gave up including 3 scores in like 3 min to end the game.  

 

PPS:  You dont think a first round CB helps?  So you are basically saying Tre White would not have made a difference in that game?  You really believe that?  Come on.   Might as well trade Tre White then, he wouldn't have made a difference right.  Get rid of his contract and get some more draft picks to take more offensive players.  

Edited April 22, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I mean….yeah, it’s unrealistic…..but wilson was there.  No one picked him.  What do you expect?  Should we have left him off the ballot?  
 

i don’t see how Wilson falling to 25 and being selected could lead you to say:  “And watch, there will be 30 threads, of the same people clamoring for all offense early in draft, just whining about the defense this year and how Beane, Frazier and McD should be fired because of it.
 

Just like every year.  Rinse and repeat around here.”

 

I think they are completely unrelated.  
 

look at our starting defense:  

DL-  17M- 1st rd pick- 7M- 1st rd pick

DL bench- 2nd rd pick- 2nd rd pick - 3.5M

LB-  11M- 1st rd pick(13M)

CB- 1st rd pick (17M)- 7.5M slot corner- 7th rd pick

S- 10M-10M

 

we’ve invested a lot on D.  we have ONE position on D that is held down by a player that isn’t considered “good”.   Literally every Starter on D is considered a good player……except Dane. 
 

if the first 2 players we take are on the offensive side of the ball, You should applaud and realize that Beane will straighten out our CB room.  

And there are other who realize that rd 1 and 2 aren’t the only resources we can use to acquire other corners.  

 

Its not completely unrelated, because people are all over this board pleading and arguing to take a WR or a RB at pick 25.  People are on this board saying the will flip out if we take a CB round 1.  

 

So this isnt about this make believe draft, its about the people clamoring for offense, even back to back picks, who are many are literally the same people who whined for 2 years about Levi, our defense, wanted McD and Beane fired in both 2020 and 2021 every time our defense came up short.  Who want Edmunds traded.  Who want Poyer traded...etc etc.  Who started thread after thread about the end of the KC game.  

 

So, I am just saying, dont sit here all off season and plead (not saying you, generalized statement) about drafting offense and then spend the season whining about the defense again like they did last year.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I didn’t say I wouldn’t be happy with those players, I’m saying it’s unrealistic.  First of all, find it hard to believe Wilson falls to 25, he’s probably going top 10.  
 

But I do believe Beane will stay true to his board, so if a corner isn’t there he likes then I don’t think he would reach, nor should he.  I just expect one to be there and don’t expect Wilson to be there.  

 

I don't think any of the consensus top 5 receivers are getting to #25. But there is a narrow path to one sliding and that one being Wilson. I think he might be in play at #8 with Atlanta and #13 with Houston. But if he isn't the pick there I can see all the other presumptive receiver teams having other receivers higher on their boards based on the traits that they like. 

[GunnerBill]

They do have money decisions coming on defense. The only preumptive starters in 2022 that haven't been paid on D are Greg Rousseau (rookie deal), Dane Jackson (rookie deal), Ed Oliver (rookie deal). I don't include Tremaine because while he doesn't have a new deal if he plays on the 5th year option as looks likely that is akin to being paid for the purposes of the 2022 season. 

 

On the flip side on offense - Spencer Brown (rookie deal), Dawson Knox (rookie deal), Devin Singletary (rookie deal), Gabe Davis (rookie deal) and Jameson Crowder (vet 1 year $2m deal) are positions filled by guys who in no sense have been paid. 

 

As Josh's bigger numbers hit they are not going to be able to carry 13 paid starters at other spots, and the simple math suggests the savings need to come on defense. And that is before they have paid Ed Oliver which they are almost certainly going to try and do if he plays as he did in 2021 again. Whether it is not retaining Edmunds, not retaining Poyer, cutting Milano, cutting Taron Johnson, cutting Micah Hyde.... there are multiple options for them they are not in a bad cap spot overall but they are going to have get comfortable weaning themselves off a starting defense with 8 well paid vets on it.

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think any of the consensus top 5 receivers are getting to #25. But there is a narrow path to one sliding and that one being Wilson. I think he might be in play at #8 with Atlanta and #13 with Houston. But if he isn't the pick there I can see all the other presumptive receiver teams having other receivers higher on their boards based on the traits that they like. 

 

If Wilson slides to 25 then I support taking him, I just still think he goes before our pick

34 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

A rookie first round CB*… and they punted 4 times. Not 3…. All of which were against the Chiefs… offense was absolutely a problem in all of their regular season losses and throughout the middle of the Chiefs game… it was usually a problem last season until Josh pulled some magic ***** out of his ass and willed the team to victory despite the offensive failures and lack of help in run game/YAC from receivers. 
 

I’d prefer they draft more offense to prolong Josh’s career instead of more capital into a defense that is already stacked with it as @NewErapointed out.

 

Come on, I am pretty sure I saw you complaining a lot about the defense this past year

 

And again, we lost 3 consecutive playoff games in 3 straight seasons because of defense.  

 

I love offense...I love giving Josh weapons, but to pretend the offense was the issue and not the defense in our KC loss (again), is a false narrative.  We had a NORMAL amount of punts but gave up an abnormal amount of points to KC.  We scored 36 points in a loss...offense is not why we lost.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not sure how you can solely blame the defense for the chiefs playoff loss in 2020… the offense was also pretty bad… Josh was running backwards all game when Feliciano was getting spun around by Chris Jones for much of it. 

 

You act as if the Bills don’t totally revamp their defensive line and pass rush in FA…

 

Yea the 2019 and 2020 playoff defeats were not all defense at all. Indeed Brandon Beane put 2019 squarely on offense. Said we have to find a way to score more points and then went out and traded for Diggs. 

 

The oline sucked in the AFCCG in 2021. We ran it back and it sucked worse in the regular season in 2022. That remains a bigger concern than corner for me. I do have corner 2nd, but I trust their coaching and their safety play enough to mitigate some of that. I am far from persuaded they have done enough up front. 

[gobills404]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No disrespect, but by “getting the most out of our DBs” do you mean getting torched by KC in back to back playoff exits?   
 

Meanwhile in the 7 games Devin had at least 13 attempts this season he averaged 82 yards and scored 7 TDs which would be 1400 yards and 17 TDs over a full season.  

I don’t think people even realize that if Devin had just 14 more attempts on the seasons, based on his YPC he would have finished top 10 in rushing this year.  And that’ was behind a bad run blocking OL.  

 

Meanwhile 7 of the top 10 WRs were drafted in rounds 2 or later.  Most of the top RBs were not first round picks either.

 

So I always find this popular response puzzling given the exact same thing can be said about WR and RB. 

 

Funny this board complained weekly to replace Levi and thought Dane wasn’t much better, many of which are the same people saying we don’t need to take a CB early.  

 

Meanwhile we have gotten bounced THREE years in a row because of our defense twice because they couldn’t make a single stop.  Same defense all these people saying to wait on a CB complain about all season long too.  
 

I trust Beane and fine with what he decides.  I like adding weapons too.  But CB is a much bigger need than WR or RB.  

That’s a whole lot of words just to say “I’d rather reach for a CB than steal 2 of the best playmakers in the draft”

[mannc]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think any of the consensus top 5 receivers are getting to #25. But there is a narrow path to one sliding and that one being Wilson. I think he might be in play at #8 with Atlanta and #13 with Houston. But if he isn't the pick there I can see all the other presumptive receiver teams having other receivers higher on their boards based on the traits that they like. 

I agree about five receivers coming off the board before 25, but I don’t think there’s much of a “consensus”, and the Bills might be very happy with Dotson or Watson, who fits the Bills’ recent draft profile of guys with extremely high measurables and athletic upside (think Spencer Brown, Greg Rousseau and Josh Allen)…and I agree that Wilson could slide, just like he did in our mock.

Edited April 22, 2022 by mannc

[H2o]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Youre worried about a lull in the middle season yet ignoring defense bounced us THREE consecutive years from the playoffs.  

 

PS:  Our offense averaged 41 points per game in the playoffs with 3 total punts...Josh Allen had almost 800 yards and 9 TDs in 2 games with zero interceptions and zero fumbles.  

 

But tell me how the offense was the problem again...and not the 42 points we gave up including 3 scores in like 3 min to end the game.  

 

PPS:  You dont think a first round CB helps?  So you are basically saying Tre White would not have made a difference in that game?  You really believe that?  Come on.   Might as well trade Tre White then, he wouldn't have made a difference right.  Get rid of his contract and get some more draft picks to take more offensive players.  

I believe Tre White was the difference in the first game, having him back there in coverage. That is why we won on their home field 38-20. 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, mannc said:

I agree about five receivers coming off the board before 25, but I don’t think there’s much of a “consensus”, and the Bills might be very happy with Dotson or Watson, who fits the Bills’ recent draft profile of guys with extremely high measurables and athletic upside (think Spencer Brown, Greg Rousseau and Josh Allen)…and I agree that Wilson could slide, just like he did in our mock.

 

Hmm, I think there is a general consensus that those 5 are the top guys, the order there is certainly no consensus on, and it doesn't necessarily follow that those will be the top 5 off the board. I think Dotson, Watson and Skyy Moore are all possibilities to go in round 1 and I don't rule out 8 going in the first. It is definitely possible. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, gobills404 said:

That’s a whole lot of words just to say “I’d rather reach for a CB than steal 2 of the best playmakers in the draft”

Except I’ve repeatedly said never reach, so there’s that too

[Alphadawg7]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea the 2019 and 2020 playoff defeats were not all defense at all. Indeed Brandon Beane put 2019 squarely on offense. Said we have to find a way to score more points and then went out and traded for Diggs. 

 

The oline sucked in the AFCCG in 2021. We ran it back and it sucked worse in the regular season in 2022. That remains a bigger concern than corner for me. I do have corner 2nd, but I trust their coaching and their safety play enough to mitigate some of that. I am far from persuaded they have done enough up front. 

 

I did not say those losses were "all" solely on the defense though.  But...the defense failed us in every game in the second half of those games at minimum.

 

• 2019 - In the second half, our defense gave up 17 consecutive points, including an 8 play TD drive late in the 4th.  Then a 9 play game winning drive in OT to lose the game.  I know it wasn't all the defenses fault, but giving up 20 points in 2nd half and OT sent us home as our offense wasn't yet at a place to carry the team.
  •  -NOTE:  I will admit and add that this game was also greatly impacted by the refs.  And honestly, our offense should have scored more points if not for those refs and Watson got away with 2 snaps after the clock hit zero in this game too.  So I would say the offense also wasn't as bad as the score and stat sheet say because we had multiple drives screwed by awful decisions by the refs.
• 2020 - Our defense looked like a high school defense going against the Chiefs.  Without exaggeration we looked like the worst defense in the league that game, Hill and Kelce were running wide open with yardage between them and defenders.  Our defense played like it was a padless walkthrough and we looked like we did not belong on the same field with the Chiefs.  Granted our offense struggled too, but our defense was one of the most embarrassing efforts I have seen during the McBeane era.
• 2021 - Our defense gave up 3 scores in like 3 minutes and 42 points and was unquestionably the most significant reason we lost.  

 

So, while its not solely on the defense, and its rarely solely on one player or one unit, but the defense was instrumental in those losses and didn't make the plays it needed in 2 OT losses and was completely out classed in another.  

 

Meanwhile, Josh Allen is now second in NFL history with QB Rating in the playoffs, behind only Mahomes by 1 point.  They both actually passed Starr after this years game ironically.  Our offense this past season averaged 41 points per game in the playoffs.  Allen threw 9 TD's and no turnovers with almost 800 yards of offense.  

 

So if I had to grade, which side of the ball played a bigger role in us going home this year, it was the defense.  And if you look at the past 2 playoff exits, the defense was atrocious in 2020's exit and it gave up 20 second half points in 2019.  Offense had its own woes in 2019 and 2020 too, but Allen is on another level now, Davis is ready to take a big role, Knox has stepped into his own, we added a great slot guy in Crowder and weapon at TE in OJ Howard too.  Devin busted out last year as well after he finally got carries.  Saffold and Bates being here along with Kromer is only going to increase or run game even further.  

 

So its a lot easier to feel more comfortable with the state of the offense today before the draft than the holes we have on the D, not to mention the holes we could be facing next year of the D with big decisions on contracts looming on key players.

 

And currently at CB, we have a former UDFA and 3rd string CB ready to take over who struggled against the Chiefs in the playoffs and a former all pro coming off a major injury that could prevent him from playing up to his standards this season as they are tricky to come all the way back from.  

 

So I think its more than reasonable to be concerned more about our pass defense that lacks speed right now heading into the draft.  A defense that has a pass happy AFC West its gonna see in the playoffs, and the elite speed it will see twice this year from Miami.   '

 

But let me reiterate to everyone, I do NOT want us to reach for any position.  If BPA when we pick is offense, take the BPA.  I am all for that, I never advocate for reaching.  This is simply about what ideally we should do if the right CB is on the board with one of our first 2 picks.  

 

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Not sure how you can solely blame the defense for the chiefs playoff loss in 2020… the offense was also pretty bad… Josh was running backwards all game when Feliciano was getting spun around by Chris Jones for much of it. 

 

You act as if the Bills didn’t totally revamp their defensive line and pass rush in FA…

 

I didnt say it was only the defenses fault in all 3 games, but I should have better clarified that so I can see how you took it that way.  I meant the defense was bad in all 3 games.  

Edited April 22, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[The Jokeman]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I think it’s highly unlikely Bills leave first 2 rounds with a WR and a RB.  The lack of interest around here in improving a defense that gave up 42 points and 3 scores in less than 3 minutes to lose in the playoffs is puzzling to me.  
 

A defense who lost a starting corner, has another coming off a big injury with no confirmed time table to return, and is gonna see several guys become free agents next year at key positions too.  

 

And watch, there will be 30 threads, of the same people clamoring for all offense early in draft, just whining about the defense this year and how Beane, Frazier and McD should be fired because of it.  
 

Just like every year.  Rinse and repeat around here.  

It depends on what you think of Tre's ability to return early or not. I think it's a risk he won't and take the CB sooner than later as feel this WR depth is deep and can find a guy later than sooner (see Gabriel Davis draft example). RB needs a guy yet not sure I take one early unless a guy falls to us in Round 2. Yet won't deny like a guy like Ty Chandler later as think he's the speed RB/Kick return type we could really use to compliment Singletary. 

[NewEra]

30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

So if I had to grade, which side of the ball played a bigger role in us going home this year, it was the defense.  And if you look at the past 2 playoff exits, the defense was atrocious in 2020's exit and it gave up 20 second half points in 2019.  Offense had its own woes in 2019 and 2020 too, but Allen is on another level now, Davis is ready to take a big role, Knox has stepped into his own, we added a great slot guy in Crowder and weapon at TE in OJ Howard too.  Devin busted out last year as well after he finally got carries.  Saffold and Bates being here along with Kromer is only going to increase or run game even further.  

 

Agreed with the statement, but you have to look deeper.  In the offseason, all we can discuss is roster building. Tre’Davious was the cornerstone of our D and was lost. Take Diggs or Dawkins out of our offense and the results may be similar.  Our OL completely fell apart when we had to start brown @ RT.  Imagine our O without Diggs?  Do you think the chiefs would’ve won that game if we had White?  
 

The defense was missing it’s best player while the O was healthy in the biggest game of the year.  You must take into consideration that White will be back and should be healthy by playoffs. Giving our gift from the heavens more around him should always be our priority imo.  

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

It depends on what you think of Tre's ability to return early or not. I think it's a risk he won't and take the CB sooner than later as feel this WR depth is deep and can find a guy later than sooner (see Gabriel Davis draft example). RB needs a guy yet not sure I take one early unless a guy falls to us in Round 2. Yet won't deny like a guy like Ty Chandler later as think he's the speed RB/Kick return type we could really use to compliment Singletary. 

 

I am admittedly concerned about the level of play once Tre is back as its not uncommon for these injuries like this to take a player a while to regain form.  

 

At RB, its possible to say upgrade from Devin with someone faster, but I also don't see it as a need.  Devins stats last year were pretty impressive once he got carries.  So I think maybe feed Devin the rock and add a speedy complimentary receiving back in the draft, like what they wanted from JD before having to sign the less impressive Duke.  

 

Dont get me wrong, I wont hate drafting say Hall or Walker, never opposed to adding weapons...I just am in the camp that is comfortable with Devin carrying the load this year and less comfortable with the state of our secondary.  

 

I know I am pounding the table here in this thread that defense is a bigger concern, which it is, but I am definitely not anti-offense either.  Especially since Josh Allen is my favorite player of probably any sport to watch play all time already.  But I also want to win a SB, and I have seen way too many offensive juggernaughts either not make the SB or lose in the SB because the opponents D shut them down, and/or their own D failed them.  So makes me uncomfortable in the potent AFC to see the state of our CB situation right now, not to mention, Poyer situation is developing still too.

[Alphadawg7]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Agreed with the statement, but you have to look deeper.  In the offseason, all we can discuss is roster building. Tre’Davious was the cornerstone of our D and was lost. Take Diggs or Dawkins out of our offense and the results may be similar.  Our OL completely fell apart when we had to start brown @ RT.  Imagine our O without Diggs?  Do you think the chiefs would’ve won that game if we had White?  
 

The defense was missing it’s best player while the O was healthy in the biggest game of the year.  You must take into consideration that White will be back and should be healthy by playoffs. Giving our gift from the heavens more around him should always be our priority imo.  

 

I dont disagree that Tre likely makes the difference last year.  But...Tre's a big question mark this year.  There is no guarantee he doesn't have a set back, there is not certain time table for a return, and there is no way to know what level of play we will see from him this year.  His injury often takes a while for a player to really come back all the way from, if they even come all the way back from it.  

 

And while I know "speed" is not the primary focus in McD's defense at CB, I am greatly concerned by our lack of it right now with how loaded the AFC is today.  

 

But hey, I love offense like anyone else.  So I won't hate any offensive picks by any means.  And I definitely do NOT want us to reach for a CB or any player ever.  But if there is a WR and a CB on the board at 25 closely graded out, I think the CB should be a higher priority.  I mean imagine adding another guy like Tre White opposite him the next several seasons on a rookie deal.  Especially as the older guys like Hyde and Poyer eventually leave, potentially even sooner in Poyers case.  

 

For the record, if an incredible prospect like Garrett or Jameson falls to 25, I am fully on board snagging them.  

Edited April 22, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I dont disagree that Tre likely makes the difference last year.  But...Tre's a big question mark this year.  There is no guarantee he doesn't have a set back, there is not certain time table for a return, and there is no way to know what level of play we will see from him this year.  His injury often takes a while for a player to really come back all the way from, if they even come all the way back from it.  

 

And while I know "speed" is not the primary focus in McD's defense at CB, I am greatly concerned by our lack of it right now with how loaded the AFC is today.  

 

But hey, I love offense like anyone else.  So I won't hate any offensive picks by any means.  And I definitely do NOT want us to reach for a CB or any player ever.  But if there is a WR and a CB on the board at 25 closely graded out, I think the CB should be a higher priority.  I mean imagine adding another guy like Tre White opposite him the next several seasons on a rookie deal.  Especially as the older guys like Hyde and Poyer eventually leave, potentially even sooner in Poyers case.  

 

For the record, if an incredible prospect like Garrett or Jameson falls to 25, I am fully on board snagging them.  

I felt the same way, but then I realized the Dolphins are the only tram loaded at WR and they still have Tua.  
 

There’s still very few teams that have more than 2 high quality receivers in our conference.  Doesn’t change that we need a DB, but it’s not the death sentence I thought it was

[Virgil]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Do you not expect them to take a CB at some point in the draft?….. I think most people who are advocating the draft to be top heavy for the offense are suggesting the defense will be fine with a later round CB(3-4) considering what they’ve gotten out of late round picks in Wallace and Jackson, Tre coming back, and what should be a MUCH better pass rush….. and I still expect them to add a veteran on top of the CB they draft. 

Bengals and Broncos have a good group of WRs. 

 

I would argue the Bengals have the best WR tandem in the league.  Broncos are decent, but not scary to me.  Even still, I'm not going to adjust my offseason plans for 1 team, knowing Tre will be back when it matters.

 

Here's the other thought.  I love McD, but he is stubborn as they are.  Even if we got a Sauce, McD isn't going to switch to man and let Tre and him lock down those receivers in the playoffs.  We run what we run, which typically allows our DB's to overachieve.

 

For clarity, because people don't read, I'm still an advocate of a DB in the first two rounds

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Do you not expect them to take a CB at some point in the draft?….. I think most people who are advocating the draft to be top heavy for the offense are suggesting the defense will be fine with a later round CB(3-4) considering what they’ve gotten out of late round picks in Wallace and Jackson, Tre coming back, and what should be a MUCH better pass rush….. and I still expect them to add a veteran on top of the CB they draft. 

Bengals and Broncos have a good group of WRs. 

Obviously I know a CB or two is coming no matter what this draft, I just would prefer one in the first 3 rounds.  Again, not advocating to reach, just saying it’s a worrisome hole right now and taking one later doesn’t give me the same confidence as getting a better prospect.  
 

At the same time I won’t flip out if we don’t take one early though either.  I want Beane to take the BPA every time we pick.  

[Shake_My_Head]

21 hours ago, gobills404 said:

I know Breece Hall is the correct answer here but I don’t think there’s a shot he lass til 57 in the real draft. More realistically I would freaking love to get Chenal as Edmunds replacement in 2023. Straight up beast against the run and as a blitzer with the athleticism needed to develop into a stud in coverage as well.

 

IDK.  He's great against the run, but McD's defense requires the LBs to drop and cover on pass plays.   Chenal doesn't appear to be very experienced there and his lack of length works against him.   He just doesn't seem that scheme-specific to the Bills, IMO.

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Do you not expect them to take a CB at some point in the draft?….. I think most people who are advocating the draft to be top heavy for the offense are suggesting the defense will be fine with a later round CB(3-4) considering what they’ve gotten out of late round picks in Wallace and Jackson, Tre coming back, and what should be a MUCH better pass rush….. and I still expect them to add a veteran on top of the CB they draft. 

Bengals and Broncos have a good group of WRs. 

Don't forget Keenan Allen and Mike Williams in Los Angeles.

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, Virgil said:

I felt the same way, but then I realized the Dolphins are the only tram loaded at WR and they still have Tua.  
 

There’s still very few teams that have more than 2 high quality receivers in our conference.  Doesn’t change that we need a DB, but it’s not the death sentence I thought it was

 

Bengals.