Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Baker made comments that Hudson should have had help with watt, implicating the HC Wouldn’t that be implicating the OC? In any event, the coaching staff, which ultimately is the HC responsibility Anyway, so Baker said the blocking schemes should have been different to help with Watt during the Pittsburgh game, and Stefanski said sometimes Watt did have help, and other times the ball was supposed to get out quickly before Watt got there and didn’t, which points the finger at Baker. Meanwhile did Baker say anything about “I have to do a better job at finding the quick passes and getting the ball out”? I’m gathering not. Yeah, that doesn’t sound like Love Peace and Harmony in Berea. Maybe Cabot is on to something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wouldn’t that be implicating the OC? In any event, the coaching staff, which ultimately is the HC responsibility Anyway, so Baker said the blocking schemes should have been different to help with Watt during the Pittsburgh game, and Stefanski said sometimes Watt did have help, and other times the ball was supposed to get out quickly before Watt got there and didn’t, which points the finger at Baker. Meanwhile did Baker say anything about “I have to do a better job at finding the quick passes and getting the ball out”? I’m gathering not. Yeah, that doesn’t sound like Love Peace and Harmony in Berea. Maybe Cabot is on to something. According to the Cleveland media, his comments were directly implicating Stefanski game plan. I admittedly don’t follow the browns enough to know though whether it should be Van pelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wouldn’t that be implicating the OC? In any event, the coaching staff, which ultimately is the HC responsibility Anyway, so Baker said the blocking schemes should have been different to help with Watt during the Pittsburgh game, and Stefanski said sometimes Watt did have help, and other times the ball was supposed to get out quickly before Watt got there and didn’t, which points the finger at Baker. Meanwhile did Baker say anything about “I have to do a better job at finding the quick passes and getting the ball out”? I’m gathering not. Yeah, that doesn’t sound like Love Peace and Harmony in Berea. Maybe Cabot is on to something. According to Stefanski, all good ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 12 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I don't think they'd completely take his lunch. Maybe steal a french fry or two when he isn't looking. I'm sure the A's would give him a lot of time to develop considering he's only 24. If he's tired of being hit and willing to bet on himself he could bolt to the MLB if the Cardinals won't commit to him long term. Even if it means a year or two in the minors making far less money. At least that's how I'd pitch it as his agent to get top dollar. Definitely good strategy for his agent to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said: According to Stefanski, all good ... I dunno, here’s the transcript of his presser Here’s the key quote which I admit sounds less finger-pointy at Baker than the excerpt: Quote On Mayfield’s postgame comment about the Browns gameplan against the Steelers, particularly about not giving more help to T James Hudson III: “I think it is just something when you do not accomplish what you want to accomplish, people are certainly frustrated. We will always look at what we could do better. There were plenty of times that we did have a person in location to chip and those type of things. Other times protection held up, and ultimately, whether it was we did not get the ball out, guys were not open or whatever it was, it is always a multifaceted-type thing. That is our job to look at and try to find a way and be better.” Here’s the transcript of his whole post-game presser. I have to say if it was Daboll or McDermott saying things like that about Allen, I would interpret it as “not completely sold” and “not enthusiastic”. Quote On assessing Mayfield’s performance during the 2021 season: “I will wait to talk about reflecting on this season. There will be time for that. Ultimately, I am frustrated for Baker, not to be able to finish the season and those type of things, but anything past that, I will wait to discuss.”…… On how Mayfield’s injury and wearing a harness on his left, non-throwing shoulder affected performance this season: “I think throughout we have been pretty consistent and I think Baker has been pretty consistent with telling you guys how he felt week in and week out. I am not going to say that all of that did not affect it some way. Of course, it would affect it in some way, but I think he has been pretty clear that he has been ready to go in these games.” It just seems like there are things he could honestly say that would be positive and complimentary to Baker that he’s not saying. Stuff fellow players have said about his toughness and his willingness to play through the injury and give his all for the team etc etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno, here’s the transcript of his presser Here’s the key quote which I admit sounds less finger-pointy at Baker than the excerpt: Here’s the transcript of his whole post-game presser. I have to say if it was Daboll or McDermott saying things like that about Allen, I would interpret it as “not completely sold” and “not enthusiastic”. It just seems like there are things he could honestly say that would be positive and complimentary to Baker that he’s not saying. Stuff fellow players have said about his toughness and his willingness to play through the injury and give his all for the team etc etc. This is what happens when a team with massive expectations fails and a solid foundation does not exist. Fingers get pointed, however subtly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno, here’s the transcript of his presser Here’s the key quote which I admit sounds less finger-pointy at Baker than the excerpt: Here’s the transcript of his whole post-game presser. I have to say if it was Daboll or McDermott saying things like that about Allen, I would interpret it as “not completely sold” and “not enthusiastic”. It just seems like there are things he could honestly say that would be positive and complimentary to Baker that he’s not saying. Stuff fellow players have said about his toughness and his willingness to play through the injury and give his all for the team etc etc. Gotta admit I didn't listen to the whole presser or read the transcript - just cherry-picked Trotter's tweet. Thanks for the link. I don't doubt Stefanski would agree with the assessment about his toughness and willingness to play but that doesn't answer the burning question as to whether he still can produce at the NFL level and can he be fixed. And IMO, this quote kinda sums up where Stefanski is at with Baker ... On assessing Mayfield’s performance during the 2021 season: “I will wait to talk about reflecting on this season. There will be time for that. Ultimately, I am frustrated for Baker, not to be able to finish the season and those type of things, but anything past that, I will wait to discuss.”…… ... meaning I need to talk to Haslam and see if we want this guy around next year. Why doesn't he just say he expects Baker to be back to his 2020 performance level after the surgery and he's our guy ? Edited January 7, 2022 by Roy Hobbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Roy Hobbs said: Gotta admit I didn't listen to the whole presser or read the transcript - just cherry-picked Trotter's tweet. Thanks for the link. I don't doubt Stefanski would agree with the assessment about his toughness and willingness to play but that doesn't answer the burning question as to whether he still can produce at the NFL level and can he be fixed. And IMO, this quote kinda sums up where Stefanski is at with Baker ... On assessing Mayfield’s performance during the 2021 season: “I will wait to talk about reflecting on this season. There will be time for that. Ultimately, I am frustrated for Baker, not to be able to finish the season and those type of things, but anything past that, I will wait to discuss.”…… ... meaning I need to talk to Haslam and see if we want this guy around next year. Why doesn't he just say he expects Baker to be back to his 2020 performance level after the surgery and he's our guy ? Right. I was curious enough to look at Mary Kay Cabot’s twitter and saw a link to a podcast discussion Cabot’s article and Mayfield’s response. Cabot is very clear that in addition to pressers what Mayfield has said to national reporters including Kurt Warner and Drew Brees, she had hours of conversations with multiple people. She did say the “may ask for a trade” was possibly what upset Baker, but she explained the dots she’s connecting - if he goes into his 5th year without a contract, that’s probably it, so wouldn’t it be better to move on? The podcast in general was pretty clear that they felt “no facts no sources” was unjustified (and I would say the story backs that up) They talked about how Baker just hasn’t built a personal relationship with most of the local media - said he has a good relationship with Jake Trotter who covered him at Oklahoma - and is not the kind of guy who would call up a reporter and say “hey, I really feel you’re putting words in my mouth with the speculation I would ask for a trade, that’s so not cool” and they could work it out (the “chip on his shoulder” thing and the ease of going on social media and having hundreds of thousands of people agree with him.) Anyway, it’s clearly different than when Chris Collinsworth asked Beane after last season, whether he felt Josh Allen’s strong ties to the Buffalo community were a problem for him as far as being pressured into an extension, and how did he see believing enough to extend Josh after (CC said) one good season vs. other QB who perhaps got extended too early (Wentz was mentioned). Beane basically shut him down - kind of chuckled and said “I do believe in Josh Allen” and that they were working on FA then would work on draft signings then would work on extensions, but also said he didn’t feel pressure to get it done this year if the two sides were too far apart. I totally get the “everything in its place and time” but Stefanski could have thrown Baker a bone and said something about “Baker’s incredibly tough, he’s played hard for us through a lot of adversity, we expect to see him back to his 2020 level once he rehabs from the injury, but any performance assessment is going to wait for the offseason right now we’re getting ready for the Bengals” 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Right. I was curious enough to look at Mary Kay Cabot’s twitter and saw a link to a podcast discussion Cabot’s article and Mayfield’s response. Cabot is very clear that in addition to pressers what Mayfield has said to national reporters including Kurt Warner and Drew Brees, she had hours of conversations with multiple people. She did say the “may ask for a trade” was possibly what upset Baker, but she explained the dots she’s connecting - if he goes into his 5th year without a contract, that’s probably it, so wouldn’t it be better to move on? The podcast in general was pretty clear that they felt “no facts no sources” was unjustified (and I would say the story backs that up) They talked about how Baker just hasn’t built a personal relationship with most of the local media - said he has a good relationship with Jake Trotter who covered him at Oklahoma - and is not the kind of guy who would call up a reporter and say “hey, I really feel you’re putting words in my mouth with the speculation I would ask for a trade, that’s so not cool” and they could work it out (the “chip on his shoulder” thing and the ease of going on social media and having hundreds of thousands of people agree with him.) Anyway, it’s clearly different than when Chris Collinsworth asked Beane after last season, whether he felt Josh Allen’s strong ties to the Buffalo community were a problem for him as far as being pressured into an extension, and how did he see believing enough to extend Josh after (CC said) one good season vs. other QB who perhaps got extended too early (Wentz was mentioned). Beane basically shut him down - kind of chuckled and said “I do believe in Josh Allen” and that they were working on FA then would work on draft signings then would work on extensions, but also said he didn’t feel pressure to get it done this year if the two sides were too far apart. I totally get the “everything in its place and time” but Stefanski could have thrown Baker a bone and said something about “Baker’s incredibly tough, he’s played hard for us through a lot of adversity, we expect to see him back to his 2020 level once he rehabs from the injury, but any performance assessment is going to wait for the offseason right now we’re getting ready for the Bengals” The fact that this regime did not draft Baker has always been a factor on how they decided to approach him from an extension standpoint. He’s had more success than Sam Darnold (who also was drafted by a different regime than traded him) but his surrounding cast was also better, I could see him with the same fate. Contrast to Josh Allen and Lamar, the current regimes are those that drafted him, they are infinitely more invested in their success and the players in general. Edited January 8, 2022 by YoloinOhio 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 40 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: The fact that this regime did not draft Baker has always been a factor on how they decided to approach him from an extension standpoint. He’s had more success than Sam Darnold (who also was drafted by a different regime than traded him) but his surrounding cast was also better, I could see him with the same fate. Contrast to Josh Allen and Lamar, the current regimes are those that drafted him, they are infinitely more invested in their success and the players in general. I can get that as a point. The fact that Mayfield has more INTs and fewer TDs than either of them may have something to do with the lack of investment as well - both Jackson and Allen have produced a better ROI. And face it, Mayfield played a role in getting Hue Jackson fired and replaced by a guy who was way over his head in Kitchens. So if he’s playing for a regime that didn’t draft him, and has had 3 OCs in 4 years, that’s partly on him? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I can get that as a point. The fact that Mayfield has more INTs and fewer TDs than either of them may have something to do with the lack of investment as well - both Jackson and Allen have produced a better ROI. And face it, Mayfield played a role in getting Hue Jackson fired and replaced by a guy who was way over his head in Kitchens. Jackson should have been fired after the 2017 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said: Jackson should have been fired after the 2017 season. Possibly But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Possibly But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker? Hard to believe a 22-year-old with limited NFL experience was given the head coach he wanted but true that. Edited January 8, 2022 by Roy Hobbs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Possibly But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker? Yes. An ill advised hire because they let a rookie Qb call the shots. As it stands the only HC he’s ever gotten along with is Lincoln Riley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cle23 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Possibly But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker? No. It's on John Dorsey. Dorsey himself said he didn't consult Mayfield about Kitchens. 20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Yes. An ill advised hire because they let a rookie Qb call the shots. As it stands the only HC he’s ever gotten along with is Lincoln Riley Mayfield didn't hire Kitchens. It was Dorsey hiring a yes man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Right. I was curious enough to look at Mary Kay Cabot’s twitter and saw a link to a podcast discussion Cabot’s article and Mayfield’s response. Cabot is very clear that in addition to pressers what Mayfield has said to national reporters including Kurt Warner and Drew Brees, she had hours of conversations with multiple people. She did say the “may ask for a trade” was possibly what upset Baker, but she explained the dots she’s connecting - if he goes into his 5th year without a contract, that’s probably it, so wouldn’t it be better to move on? The podcast in general was pretty clear that they felt “no facts no sources” was unjustified (and I would say the story backs that up) They talked about how Baker just hasn’t built a personal relationship with most of the local media - said he has a good relationship with Jake Trotter who covered him at Oklahoma - and is not the kind of guy who would call up a reporter and say “hey, I really feel you’re putting words in my mouth with the speculation I would ask for a trade, that’s so not cool” and they could work it out (the “chip on his shoulder” thing and the ease of going on social media and having hundreds of thousands of people agree with him.) Anyway, it’s clearly different than when Chris Collinsworth asked Beane after last season, whether he felt Josh Allen’s strong ties to the Buffalo community were a problem for him as far as being pressured into an extension, and how did he see believing enough to extend Josh after (CC said) one good season vs. other QB who perhaps got extended too early (Wentz was mentioned). Beane basically shut him down - kind of chuckled and said “I do believe in Josh Allen” and that they were working on FA then would work on draft signings then would work on extensions, but also said he didn’t feel pressure to get it done this year if the two sides were too far apart. I totally get the “everything in its place and time” but Stefanski could have thrown Baker a bone and said something about “Baker’s incredibly tough, he’s played hard for us through a lot of adversity, we expect to see him back to his 2020 level once he rehabs from the injury, but any performance assessment is going to wait for the offseason right now we’re getting ready for the Bengals” I think it is more than Stefanski. Baker had issues with Beckham and that exploded on Twitter. Then Hunt’s dad went after Baker. I don’t get the feeling that the other Cleveland players have the same level of respect and trust of Baker. Baker has been very inconsistent and with the injury this year - you really can’t question his toughness, but was he and Stefanski doing want was best for the team - playing him with all the injuries. Also if you look at last year - Baker was very inconsistent early with 6 of the first 10 games under 200 yards and 2 additional below 220 yards. It was late in the season - after they shut down Beckham - that he put together a nice 5 games stretch with some big wins that propelled them to the playoffs. It is not that he had an elite 2020 - he did have a very nice stretch of games though. We will see, but I don’t get the feeling many players will be truly sad if they move on from Baker. Edited January 8, 2022 by Rochesterfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, cle23 said: No. It's on John Dorsey. Dorsey himself said he didn't consult Mayfield about Kitchens. Mayfield didn't hire Kitchens. It was Dorsey hiring a yes man. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/report-baker-mayfield-broke-tie-in-freddie-kitchens-favor-during-browns-coaching-search/95-46bafde0-095f-425c-8ef2-dc4128c7cc56 Quote Dorsey wanted Freddie Kitchens, and DePodesta wanted Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski. And at one point, it was leaning Stefanski, but you know who broke the tie, baby? The guy who has come in and really taken everything under his power and control in Cleveland. Baker Mayfield wanted Kitchens. Baker Mayfield gets Kitchens.” Edited January 8, 2022 by YoloinOhio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 6:13 PM, mattynh said: He has gone downhill performance wise from his rookie year which was pretty good. This year is tough because he has a significant injury that he is playing through and is affecting him which could cost him a lot of money. But I think he gets healthy, plays next year on the option and then the Browns can decide. But he also has one of the best defense in the NFL along with a 1-2 punch at Running Back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cle23 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/report-baker-mayfield-broke-tie-in-freddie-kitchens-favor-during-browns-coaching-search/95-46bafde0-095f-425c-8ef2-dc4128c7cc56 And there are plenty of articles that say he didn't have a say in the hiring. Dorsey himself said Mayfield didn't have a say. https://www.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2019/01/85a2a5bc4b7005/baker-mayfields-involvement-in.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 I mean of course Dorsey would say Mayfield had no say in such an important decision. Whether it's true or not. It's bad GMing to admit fealty to a subordinate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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