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Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦


Tiberius
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4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm sorry.  I expected that given your 1939 analogy I thought you'd be in alignment with the idea of attacking China.  Otherwise, I assume we wait until they attack Taiwan and you can start citing references to 1941 and the Japanese Empire's invasion of China, Korea, or other Asian nations. 

 

As for diplomacy, there was little to no diplomacy in addressing Russia and their security concerns which US official dismissed without even addressing.  Just do what we say was the negotiating position.  That worked out great for everyone.  Some inside the NATO alliance suggest many member nations want to prolong the war as long as possible as a way to weaken Russia regardless of the costs to the Ukrainian nation and citizens.  I tend to believe that.

 

My final assessment is that given the Russian military's piss poor performance against Ukraine's forces are we overstating or miscalculating the threat presented to Western Europe and the U.S. by Russian conventional forces?  I expect that in a head-to-head fight against our land, sea, and air services the American military would likely annihilate the Russia forces in a matter of weeks if not days.  So what are we really worried about?  

 

What Russian security concerns???

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10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Its all out there.  You should catch up on events and diplomatic conversations that occurred prior to the invasion.  

There were none. Ukraine was not  a threat to Russia, that's just Putin's propaganda 

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27 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

My final assessment is that given the Russian military's piss poor performance against Ukraine's forces are we overstating or miscalculating the threat presented to Western Europe and the U.S. by Russian conventional forces?  I expect that in a head-to-head fight against our land, sea, and air services the American military would likely annihilate the Russia forces in a matter of weeks if not days.  So what are we really worried about?  

 

 

That may be true, but the reality is that there are many other considerations.

Where do we "annihilate the Russian forces in a matter of weeks," and it wouldn't be "days."

How do we get our forces to this battle?

How do we house them, feed them, supply them?

 

Make no mistake, there would be huge losses in such a conflict, and it if ever got nuclear, well, use your imagination.

 

While you are not one who has done so, a few here who have recommended direct US involvement don't seem to have ever considered the how and where, and it is much more complicated than the uniformed view that you simply sterilize the airspace.

Anyone who suggest that has never operated a tactical airplane under a significant SAM umbrella, which is what the Ukraine is. 

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33 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

Who in their right mind gives a rat's about John Bolton.

The single worst Trump appointee, and there were many.

 

Some people have a "to do" list.

Bolton has always had a "to invade" list and it is very long.

 

The guy has never met a country he didn't want to go to war with, and I for one, have no interest in any of his speculations.

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10 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Who in their right mind gives a rat's about John Bolton.

The single worst Trump appointee, and there were many.

 

Some people have a "to do" list.

Bolton has always had a "to invade" list and it is very long.

 

The guy has never met a country he didn't want to go to war with, and I for one, have no interest in any of his speculations.


Youre right - I should have just posted this Tweet w Conalds own words

 

 

But who are you kidding? We all know Trump would have handed Ukraine over to Putin had he won just like he did Syria.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Who in their right mind gives a rat's about John Bolton.

The single worst Trump appointee, and there were many.

 

Some people have a "to do" list.

Bolton has always had a "to invade" list and it is very long.

 

The guy has never met a country he didn't want to go to war with, and I for one, have no interest in any of his speculations.

 

Bolton is a moron.  So Putin was waiting for Trump to pull out of NATO (another lie)...to do what?  And when Trump lost the election, Putin still invaded Ukraine while the US was still in NATO.  Solid "thinking" there, Johnny!

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3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm sorry.  I expected that given your 1939 analogy I thought you'd be in alignment with the idea of attacking China.  Otherwise, I assume we wait until they attack Taiwan and you can start citing references to 1941 and the Japanese Empire's invasion of China, Korea, or other Asian nations. 

 

As for diplomacy, there was little to no diplomacy in addressing Russia and their security concerns which US official dismissed without even addressing.  Just do what we say was the negotiating position.  That worked out great for everyone.  Some inside the NATO alliance suggest many member nations want to prolong the war as long as possible as a way to weaken Russia regardless of the costs to the Ukrainian nation and citizens.  I tend to believe that.

 

My final assessment is that given the Russian military's piss poor performance against Ukraine's forces are we overstating or miscalculating the threat presented to Western Europe and the U.S. by Russian conventional forces?  I expect that in a head-to-head fight against our land, sea, and air services the American military would likely annihilate the Russia forces in a matter of weeks if not days.  So what are we really worried about?  

 

1. We should never attack first, but like Hitler, you must be ready to respond immediately. Putin knew we would nit.

2. This is not about security, it us about ethnic cleansing now. Allowing people Russians to take over Ukraine for the second time, and punishing if Ukraine fir the 3rd time in a century.

3. I think you are right about letting Russia weaken itself.

4. But Ryssia I am sure gas nit used its force. Both US and Russia could not contain issues in Afghanistan for 20 years of effort.

5. Russia has defeated Ukraine. It is the people they cannot defeat. Like the Palestinians or Taliban. Ukrainians people will not be communists again. Freedom ir death. We should be fully supporting this. Is this just not a giant Korea 1951. 

Good discussion All Pro😀

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28 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

I'm behind on this part of the Ukraine war news.  So critically important bits of Russian industry have all started catching fire at the same time?

This is the first I’m hearing of it. Did you see the two oligarchs that killed their families and themselves? Something is up 

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39 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

This is the first I’m hearing of it. Did you see the two oligarchs that killed their families and themselves? Something is up 

 

What the ***** is up with that country.

 

I might just watch Tucker Carlson tonight, so he can go on explaining why Russia's "interests" need to be respected or whatever he's on about 

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1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

1. We should never attack first, but like Hitler, you must be ready to respond immediately. Putin knew we would nit.

2. This is not about security, it us about ethnic cleansing now. Allowing people Russians to take over Ukraine for the second time, and punishing if Ukraine fir the 3rd time in a century.

3. I think you are right about letting Russia weaken itself.

4. But Ryssia I am sure gas nit used its force. Both US and Russia could not contain issues in Afghanistan for 20 years of effort.

5. Russia has defeated Ukraine. It is the people they cannot defeat. Like the Palestinians or Taliban. Ukrainians people will not be communists again. Freedom ir death. We should be fully supporting this. Is this just not a giant Korea 1951. 

Good discussion All Pro😀

 

Very strange post, and I hesitate to quote it.

Still, I have never seen a post of yours that talks about specifics regarding how to do what you want, and what the cost would be.

As background, I think comparing Putin to Hitler vis a vis territorial acquisition is absurd.  

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