2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Ha. I don't get called a homer very often on this board so I suppose I should take it as a compliment? Aaron Rodgers will win MVP because it is actually a "best player in the league" award. I wasn't really disputing that. I was saying in the truest meaning of the words the two most valuable players for their teams have been Allen and Taylor and in a muddy year where there is no clear frontrunner I would look that way rather than the obvious "who is Quarterbacking the team with the best record in the league?" I will also say Rodgers is benefitting from playing his stinker week 1. That is a long time ago and people have forgotten about it. If that Saints game was last week he would not be the MVP front runner IMO. Doesn't mean Rodgers hasn't had another excellent season overall, but I don't think there has been a slam dunk best player in the league so personally I'd go back to the normal English meaning of the words most valuable. Most valuable = highest value = best player That is the truest meaning of the words. It's not the "Most Valuable Player For Their Team" award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 minute ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said: Most valuable = highest value = best player That is the truest meaning of the words. It's not the "Most Valuable Player For Their Team" award. I don't accept that highest value = best player. A possession can be of greatest value and not be the best thing you own. The two are not the same. Something's value is in part related to where you are without that thing and its replaceability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 11 hours ago, NewEra said: cool. The rbs on our terrible run offense- Moss(4) and motor (4) have 8 rushing TDs. 4.18 ypc. Motor is 4.6- moss 3.5 Jones(4) and Dillon (3) have 7 rushing TDs. 4.34 ypc. Jones 4.4 Dillon 4.1 AR has 3. josh has 4. is their running game really THAT much better than ours? They have better RBs who are more capable of making a great individual play than our RBs are. I just don’t think their run blocking has been above average this season. Jmo Much better is subjective but definitely I would argue better. Not even a numbers thing, but just watching the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Much better is subjective but definitely I would argue better. Not even a numbers thing, but just watching the games. I totally agree…GBs run game is better. I just don’t think it has anything to do with ARs greatness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Just now, NewEra said: I totally agree…GBs run game is better. I just don’t think it has anything to do with ARs greatness. I think there is a strong case to be made that their better running game and the lack of a running game is a major difference in both teams win/loss records. And I've always said win/loss records have been at least 50% of the criteria for MVP. So in that sense Allen is handicapped a great deal by the Bills total lack of a running game. Less impact on making Aaron Rodgers who he is but a much greater impact on wins/losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of a K-Gun Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said: Most valuable = highest value = best player That is the truest meaning of the words. It's not the "Most Valuable Player For Their Team" award. Not saying this should factor into MVP voting in the slightest, but if we are trying to define “value” then do we consider that Rodgers’ cap hit in 2021 is $27M versus Josh Allen’s at $10M? Now who’s the highest value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't accept that highest value = best player. A possession can be of greatest value and not be the best thing you own. The two are not the same. Something's value is in part related to where you are without that thing and its replaceability. If you could add one player to a generic team for one season, who would it be? That is the most valuable player. If he wasn't the most valuable then you wouldn't choose him. If Rodgers is the best player then he is the most valuable IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 minute ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said: If you could add one player to a generic team for one season, who would it be? That is the most valuable player. If he wasn't the most valuable then you wouldn't choose him. If Rodgers is the best player then he is the most valuable IMO. No. It would be the best player. The two words do not mean the same. Context matters when assessing value in a way it doesn't when assessing best. Would Derrick Henry be as valuable on the Bills as he is in Tennessee? No. But he'd still be the best running back in the league. Valuable and best are different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I think there is a strong case to be made that their better running game and the lack of a running game is a major difference in both teams win/loss records. And I've always said win/loss records have been at least 50% of the criteria for MVP. So in that sense Allen is handicapped a great deal by the Bills total lack of a running game. Less impact on making Aaron Rodgers who he is but a much greater impact on wins/losses. That their better running game? Better than the bills and worse than 20 other teams? Their run game isn’t good this year. Numbers prove this. Just because their run game is better than the bills doesn’t mean that it’s helping them win games and it doesn’t mean that the bills are losing games because of a lack of running game. The titans, jags, pats, TB, Pittsburgh losses would’ve all been wins minus 1 big play. We didn’t lose because of our run game. We lost because we lost focus and gave up big plays/penalties (and some help from the refs). Turnovers contribute heavily in losses as well…and when your QB rarely ever turns it over, your chances of winning more games is increased. AR had 2 Ints in the opening loss to NO and didn’t play in their loss to KC. The Vikings loss, they put up 31 and loss at the buzzer. 4 turnovers on the entire season. 4 Ints and 0 fumbles lost. Josh had 2 Ints vs the colts and jags. 1 int vs Tennessee and tampa. A fumble lost vs Pitts and NE. At least one turnover in every loss. josh has 15 turnovers, 12 Ints and 3 FL. 15 turnovers to 4 is a huge difference and, imo, has a much bigger impact on winning and losing games when compared to the difference between the Bills and the packers run game. agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of a K-Gun Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 13 minutes ago, NewEra said: Josh had 2 Ints vs the colts and jags. 1 int vs Tennessee and tampa. A fumble lost vs Pitts and NE. At least one turnover in every loss. josh has 15 turnovers, 12 Ints and 3 FL. 15 turnovers to 4 is a huge difference and, imo, has a much bigger impact on winning and losing games when compared to the difference between the Bills and the packers run game. agree to disagree. Did they really give Breida’s fumble to Josh in the NE game? Stats are weird… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 For me the problem is not if Josh does not win the Mvp the problem is he’s not legitimately in the conversation which is bizarre just like it’s bizarre that he didn’t get named the pro bowl 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, NewEra said: That their better running game? Better than the bills and worse than 20 other teams? Their run game isn’t good this year. Numbers prove this. J It's not worse than 20 other teams though. Factoring out rushing yards contributed by QB's Green Bay rises to 11th in the league. A quick look at some of the QB's putting up big rushing numbers this year: Stathead QB Rushing YPG When accounting for only total rushing yards contributed by RB's for each team Green Bay climbs to 11th in the league at 1400 yards. Buffalo falls to 23rd in the league at 1095 yards. I'm surprised actually that the Bills are not bottom 5. Stathead RB Total Rushing Yards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 18 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: Most of the conversation I’ve seen here is about how Josh should at least be in the discussion. Some people are throwing him out entirely Rodgers should win with Josh as the runner up again. Issue is it doesn’t seem like he’s even getting that recognition. I'll be honest, MVP is nice, but I couldn't care less. The NFL knows who Josh is. They know how good he is. I don't even think he'll finish runner up. Mahomes, Brady and Taylor will all be right there. This is one of the more competitive years for MVP. 13 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Okay hang on. Backwards logic here. Do you see it? You're adjusting Rodgers being out for a game in one direction for all the good stats and another direction for the bad stat. To be clear, Allen has almost 1,000 more yards than Rodgers. So that stat is not similar I see your point, but I think you're counting rushing yards as well, which is fair. *They have nearly identical passing stats, is what I should have said. 13 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Ha. I don't get called a homer very often on this board so I suppose I should take it as a compliment? Aaron Rodgers will win MVP because it is actually a "best player in the league" award. I wasn't really disputing that. I was saying in the truest meaning of the words the two most valuable players for their teams have been Allen and Taylor and in a muddy year where there is no clear frontrunner I would look that way rather than the obvious "who is Quarterbacking the team with the best record in the league?" I will also say Rodgers is benefitting from playing his stinker week 1. That is a long time ago and people have forgotten about it. If that Saints game was last week he would not be the MVP front runner IMO. Doesn't mean Rodgers hasn't had another excellent season overall, but I don't think there has been a slam dunk best player in the league so personally I'd go back to the normal English meaning of the words most valuable. Nothing wrong with being a homer. I didn't mean that in a malicious way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think he certainly suggested that you should take into account one fewer game when comparing yardage. I don't think he actually adjusted up unless I missed that. Well let's at least do that for our top 3 QBs in the MVP race in terms of percentage of total offense. Since Rodgers missed a game I subtracted the Chiefs game. Rodgers: 74.7% of total offense Brady: 77.4% of total offense Allen: 81.6% of total offense Again, those numbers have been adjusted for Rodgers's missed game. In terms of the unadjusted Packers offense on the season, he accounts for 70.5% of their total yards. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: I'll be honest, MVP is nice, but I couldn't care less. The NFL knows who Josh is. They know how good he is. I don't even think he'll finish runner up. Mahomes, Brady and Taylor will all be right there. This is one of the more competitive years for MVP. I see the possibility of 4 or 5 guys all receiving votes. Not sure if Josh will be runner up but he should definitely receive at least a vote or 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: I see your point, but I think you're counting rushing yards as well, which is fair. *They have nearly identical passing stats, is what I should have said. Why on Earth wouldn't you count QB rushing stats in today's NFL? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Why on Earth wouldn't you count QB rushing stats in today's NFL? When I made the claim of similar stats, I was thinking purely passing. Slipped my mind, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Son of a K-Gun said: Did they really give Breida’s fumble to Josh in the NE game? Stats are weird… Yeah….pretty ridiculous 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: For me the problem is not if Josh does not win the Mvp the problem is he’s not legitimately in the conversation which is bizarre just like it’s bizarre that he didn’t get named the pro bowl For sure. Lamar…..lol. Ridic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 29 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Why on Earth wouldn't you count QB rushing stats in today's NFL? I’ve been saying this for months now haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 40 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: It's not worse than 20 other teams though. Factoring out rushing yards contributed by QB's Green Bay rises to 11th in the league. A quick look at some of the QB's putting up big rushing numbers this year: Stathead QB Rushing YPG When accounting for only total rushing yards contributed by RB's for each team Green Bay climbs to 11th in the league at 1400 yards. Buffalo falls to 23rd in the league at 1095 yards. I'm surprised actually that the Bills are not bottom 5. Stathead RB Total Rushing Yards I guess you have to be a subscriber to view the stats on that site? Idk. Good points. I still don’t think their running game has anything to do with him being the best player this season and winning mvp. Imo, Rodgers has had a much greater impact on their run game than vice versa. Similar to Josh having a similar impact on our run game. Motors YPC is greater than Jones and Dillon. Not because of our OL. Not because he’s better than the Packers RB. But because the opponents worry about josh, similar to ARs opponents worry about him. I’ve spent too much time here and our points are understood. Happy New Years brother 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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