Bills Offense

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

That's what I'm saying. He locked onto the shorter routes constantly. I was actually very surprised that Sanders who's 34 was actually getting open like he was. But it was odd that Allen did throw to double and triple coverage more often than the open man. The 4th and 9 play, he threw about a 25 yard pass down the field to Gabe Davis in triple coverage. My friend was like "he's been throwing short yardage this whole game and now he wants to go down field in triple coverage instead of just getting the first down?" It was very weird what he was doing today

He thought he had a free play on that one...steelers were Offside and got away with it 

[Buffalo03]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He thought he had a free play on that one...steelers were Offside and got away with it 

I was not aware of that. He did things like this all game though. It was strange. I hope it was just rust. There were players that were stuck in trying to get to the game and I wonder if that played a small roll.in things that happened out there

[Milanos Milano]

37 minutes ago, Nelius said:

I feel like there's only about two teams that this applies to - having specifically an elite #1 and #2. Maybe the Seahawks and Cowboys? Can't count the Chiefs although Kelce and Hill are clearly the best offensive weapon combo in the league.

 

I think our WR depth is top 10 so generally disagree. The Steelers arguably have a bunch of 2's and 3's and they got the job done today. Alright maybe Claypool is edging into #1 territory, kid is kind of a freak.

Then why can the Steelers outperform us with lesser talent? Does that mean we have inferior coaches? Or is Ben playing better than Josh? If that is the case, then if Josh can’t get us the big W, how much supporting talent does he need to make that happen? Considering we are now tied up big money with him, our top talent acquisitions are probably limited to drafts. 

[Nelius]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

Then why can the Steelers outperform us with lesser talent? Does that mean we have inferior coaches? Or is Ben playing better than Josh? If that is the case, then if Josh can’t get us the big W, how much supporting talent does he need to make that happen? Considering we are now tied up big money with him, our top talent acquisitions are probably limited to drafts. 

 

I personally think it's really just a blip on the radar and that we have the better team with better players, including WRs, but out of your options I would put it on coaching today. Big Ben is not very good right now imo, he just gets the ball out quick and avoids pressure. But man he looked old today, looked like he was heaving a shot put on some of those throws. Offensive play calling, refs, and that awful blocked punt ruined today, imo. 

 

And as far as being limited to drafts for future WR talent I'm completely fine with that. Look at what young WRs did around the NFL today. 

[Milanos Milano]

You guys are so disingenuous sometimes. If we aren’t winning Super Bowls blame has to be put somewhere. 

 

1. Not good enough talent.

2. Not good enough coaching. 

 

Figure it out, because I don’t want to watch Mahomes own us for a decade or more. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Then why can the Steelers outperform us with lesser talent? Does that mean we have inferior coaches? Or is Ben playing better than Josh? If that is the case, then if Josh can’t get us the big W, how much supporting talent does he need to make that happen? Considering we are now tied up big money with him, our top talent acquisitions are probably limited to drafts. 

That game felt kind of a flukey any given Sunday type game to me but if it turns into a pattern you probably see the offensive coordinator getting playcalling duties taken away or replaced to get a fresh set of eyes in there and some rebuilding on the offensive line this offseason since the cap is increasing g next year 

[Nelius]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

You guys are so disingenuous sometimes. If we aren’t winning Super Bowls blame has to be put somewhere. 

 

1. Not good enough talent.

2. Not good enough coaching. 

 

Figure it out, because I don’t want to watch Mahomes own us for a decade or more. 

 

How is it disingenuous to blame either the players or coaches? Who else are you going to blame?

 

Again I don't think you blame either for the long run and today was hopefully an outlier.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

You guys are so disingenuous sometimes. If we aren’t winning Super Bowls blame has to be put somewhere. 

 

1. Not good enough talent.

2. Not good enough coaching. 

 

Figure it out, because I don’t want to watch Mahomes own us for a decade or more. 

You're definitely not wrong if this turns into an issue long term but this really seemed like that 'everything going wrong' type of game where we normally get absolutely blown out and we had a chance to win it late.  I know we're all sour about losing but even if the dline only showed up for a half that's a half more than they showed up for last season...they were historically awful last year and allen put the team on his back and took them all the way to the afc championship game with three seriously injured wrs I think he's earned some slack 

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

That game felt kind of a flukey any given Sunday type game to me but if it turns into a pattern you probably see the offensive coordinator getting playcalling duties taken away or replaced to get a fresh set of eyes in there and some rebuilding on the offensive line this offseason since the cap is increasing g next year 

I’m willing to give benefits of the doubts, considering how awful we have been for over a decade. But ultimately playoffs don’t mean jack, only super bowl wins do. Failure to win is a fail just as much as a 0-16 season. Either bring in better talent or bring in better play callers. No more all roads lead through me talk, cause if you want to talk like that, then the hammer needs to fall eventually. This year is my last free pass. If no major adjustments are made this offseason to bring a super bowl if we don’t win one this year, things need to be shaken up via coordinators. If that doesn’t solve anything, then McDermott needs to start taking accountability. 

[Nelius]

I think this thread needs more clear examples. What's a current example of elite WR depth that the Bills should try to emulate?

 

Gabe Davis is probably the best #4 in the league. I'll take a #4 that regularly catches TDs, but I'm genuinely interested to hear what others think constitutes great WR depth. I think we're top 5 the more I think about it.

[Process]

Elite talent > depth

 

Having the best #4 WR in the NFL and 50 "solid" dlineman is not going to win you a SB. 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Process said:

Elite talent > depth. 

 

Having the best #4 WR in the NFL is not going to win you a SB. 

But we see subpar talents win Super Bowls. See Trent Dilfer. Brady had marginal WRs for a lot of his career. We already signed Allen long term, so no turning back now. If Allen can’t win a super bowl this year or next, it’s time to start thinking Allen needs Elite WRs to win and plan accordingly. 

1 minute ago, Nelius said:

I think this thread needs more clear examples. What's a current example of elite WR depth that the Bills should try to emulate?

 

Gabe Davis is probably the best #4 in the league. I'll take a #4 that regularly catches TDs, but I'm genuinely interested to hear what others think constitutes great WR depth. I think we're top 5 the more I think about it.

Tampa Bay has the most elite WR core in the NFL. 

4 minutes ago, Nelius said:

I think this thread needs more clear examples. What's a current example of elite WR depth that the Bills should try to emulate?

 

Gabe Davis is probably the best #4 in the league. I'll take a #4 that regularly catches TDs, but I'm genuinely interested to hear what others think constitutes great WR depth. I think we're top 5 the more I think about it.

If you truly believe this, then there is no excuse not to win a super bowl correct? If you have top 5 talent, then the issue is either Allen or coaching. We need to figure it out after this year, because Mahomes isn’t going to get any worse. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

I’m willing to give benefits of the doubts, considering how awful we have been for over a decade. But ultimately playoffs don’t mean jack, only super bowl wins do. Failure to win is a fail just as much as a 0-16 season. Either bring in better talent or bring in better play callers. No more all roads lead through me talk, cause if you want to talk like that, then the hammer needs to fall eventually. This year is my last free pass. If no major adjustments are made this offseason to bring a super bowl if we don’t win one this year, things need to be shaken up via coordinators. If that doesn’t solve anything, then McDermott needs to start taking accountability. 

 I'm sure they will give things a hard look if we get rolled by someone in the playoffs or don't make it...daboll will likely be gone for sure if it happens in a similar way to today.  If this was a mid/late season game I'd be more worried but the first couple weeks of the season are infamous for these type of games.  This is a cap reduced year so it was tough to do any major overhauling via free agency for any team...I think we have improved more than the chiefs have but we will find out if it's enough 

5 minutes ago, Process said:

Elite talent > depth

 

Having the best #4 WR in the NFL and 50 "solid" dlineman is not going to win you a SB. 

Elite talent is better than depth in week one maybe...but you are likely to see several big time injuries to each team..  as the season goes on depth becomes more and more important 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 I'm sure they will give things a hard look if we get rolled by someone in the playoffs or don't make it...daboll will likely be gone for sure if it happens in a similar way to today.  If this was a mid/late season game I'd be more worried but the first couple weeks of the season are infamous for these type of games.  This is a cap reduced year so it was tough to do any major overhauling via free agency for any team...I think we have improved more than the chiefs have but we will find out if it's enough 

I’m just frustrated. Today’s loss was a tough one considering we just trounced on them last year. It feels like coaching is the main issue, but I don’t know. Allen has no excuses either with the talent surrounding him, but the play calling isn’t doing him any favors. We have a good D and a good O, so today hurts more than it otherwise should. 

[Process]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 I'm sure they will give things a hard look if we get rolled by someone in the playoffs or don't make it...daboll will likely be gone for sure if it happens in a similar way to today.  If this was a mid/late season game I'd be more worried but the first couple weeks of the season are infamous for these type of games.  This is a cap reduced year so it was tough to do any major overhauling via free agency for any team...I think we have improved more than the chiefs have but we will find out if it's enough 

Elite talent is better than depth in week one maybe...but you are likely to see several big time injuries to each team..  as the season goes on depth becomes more and more important 

Lol. Yea our awesome depth was a real plus late last year when we got out a** kicked and embarrassed in the AFCCG. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’m just frustrated. Today’s loss was a tough one considering we just trounced on them last year. It feels like coaching is the main issue, but I don’t know. Allen has no excuses either with the talent surrounding him, but the play calling isn’t doing him any favors. We have a good D and a good O, so today hurts more than it otherwise should. 

Yea I def get it...I think they threw something at josh he hasn't seen before and we almost beat it anyway but I could see how someone would see it as he can't beat a good defense and so on...its impossible to say because we've only played one game.  If we look shaky against Miami I will be just as panicked lol because in the context of competing for the division  that game is much more important. The team that played the best in the regular season doesnt even win the super bowl oftwn so there are definitely no awards for the best week 1 team lol

3 minutes ago, Process said:

Lol. Yea our awesome depth was a real plus late last year when we got out a** kicked and embarrassed in the AFCCG. 

Our dline was absolute garbage last year and every one of our wide receivers was not just injured but seriously injured  lol I dont think depth applied to that...rousseau looked quite promising today and star should be back to plug up the run.... depth definitely cost the chiefs the super bowl that's for sure 

[Milanos Milano]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Yea I def get it...I think they threw something at josh he hasn't seen before and we almost beat it anyway but I could see how someone would see it as he can't beat a good defense and so on...its impossible to say because we've only played one game.  If we look shaky against Miami I will be just as panicked lol because in the context of competing for the division  that game is much more important. The team that played the best in the regular season doesnt even win the super bowl oftwn so there are definitely no awards for the best week 1 team lol

I get it, and I’m not really overly concerned, just mad. I still feel we are playoff team and a super bowl contender. But that isn’t good enough, it’s super bowl or bust and right now that road goes through teams like Pittsburgh, KC, Titans, GB, TB, AZ, etc. If we can’t beat those teams in the regular season, it’s going to be equally hard or harder to beat them in the post season. I’m just tired of the excuses, I just want a super bowl. We either get better talent in here or better coordinators/coaching or talent evaluators. This is the last free pass year for me. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by IronMaidenBills

[Nelius]

15 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

If you truly believe this, then there is no excuse not to win a super bowl correct? If you have top 5 talent, then the issue is either Allen or coaching. We need to figure it out after this year, because Mahomes isn’t going to get any worse. 

 

Correct haha. I think we're in full agreement. I think our WR depth is just fine, and I think there are no more excuses. Today was a mess, but it's still just one game. I have no reason to sound the alarm on our WR depth. Now the Oline if Dawkins can't return to form, is possibly a serious issue. And our running game of course, but WR depth is not a personal concern.

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Correct haha. I think we're in full agreement. I think our WR depth is just fine, and I think there are no more excuses. Today was a mess, but it's still just one game. I have no reason to sound the alarm on our WR depth. Now the Oline if Dawkins can't return to form, is possibly a serious issue. And our running game of course, but WR depth is not a personal concern.

Yeah, I’m not concerned either, just mad. We should be beating teams like Pittsburgh. After all we have top 5 talent supposedly. So if that is the case then why are our coaches underperforming. Some are saying we have subpar trench talent, if that is the case then why is our talent evaluations underperforming. Right now, we all can’t even agree where the blame lies. Great historical teams dominate, and they win a lot of games, some even go undefeated. So struggle fests like today hurt, it makes it feel like we aren’t a great historical team, especially when we beat Pittsburgh last year fairly decisively. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by IronMaidenBills

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

10 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I get it, and I’m not really overly concerned, just mad. I still feel we are playoff team and a super bowl contender. But that isn’t good enough, it’s super bowl or bust and right now that road goes through teams like Pittsburgh, KC, Titans, GB, TB, AZ, etc. If we can’t beat those teams in the regular season, it’s going to be equally hard or harder to beat them in the post season. I’m just tired of the excuses, I just want a super bowl. We either get better talent in here or better coordinators/coaching or talent evaluators. 

I'm not saying you're wrong for doing this but you picked a tough year to demand additional talent haha that salary cap crunch was tough.  If we're in mid-season form losing to contenders I'm right there with ya...week 1 where we faced a tough defense throwing some alignment trick at us we haven't seen before that we outgained by over a hundred yards and won time of possession by a healthy margin against that mostly beat us because of a blocked punt and some ticky tack penalties could be just one of those flukey games 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Big Blitz]

The Titans, Colts, and Browns all lost today - brutally I might add.  All SB contenders.  That might need revisiting.  

 

 

After week 1, this is the pekking order:

 

1. Chiefs 

2. Chargers (yep, 2nd best team that had the best off season acquisition - Linsley)

3. Steelers 

4. Browns 

5. Bills

6. Miami

 

 

That's it.  It's going to be one of those 5 (no way Miami)

 

Tennessee losing Smith might be a massive deal.  The Colts have ZERO firepower.  The Browns will be good.  The Ravens have too many key injuries.  

 

Let's beat Miami please.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Yeah, I’m not concerned either, just mad. We should be beating teams like Pittsburgh. After all we have top 5 talent supposedly. So if that is the case then why are our coaches underperforming. Some are saying we have subpar trench talent, if that is the case then why is our talent evaluations underperforming. Right now, we all can’t even agree where the blame lies. Great historical teams dominate, and they win a lot of games, some even go undefeated. So struggle fests like today hurt, it makes it feel like we aren’t a great historical team, especially when we beat Pittsburgh last year fairly decisively. 

I think it was players this time being rusty but I might be in the minority on that one 🤣 what team has gone undefeated and won the super bowl in the last 40 years? I'm gonna go through the previous super bowl winners but it usually feels like the best team in the regular season doesn't win it all to me lately but thats based on memory.

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I'm not saying you're wrong for doing this but you picked a tough year to demand additional talent haha that salary cap crunch was tough.  If we're in mid-season form losing to contenders I'm right there with ya...week 1 where we faced a tough defense throwing some alignment trick at us we haven't seen before that we outgained by over a hundred yards and won time of possession by a healthy margin against mostly because of a blocked punt and some ticky tack penalties could be just one of those flukey games 

This is reasonable and I agree with this take. I don’t think many of us are to far apart where we are coming from. I honestly don’t think I fully believe our WRs are the issue, but just mad because Allen threw for 51 passes and nothing much to show for it, considering QBs today had half the amount of attempts for similar or more yardage. Obviously they weren’t playing against a Pitt D, but still it really hurts to know that. Kelly had bad games, so I supposed it’s only normal for Allen to have a bad game or 2. I just sucks watching Mahomes, Brady, etc having great games after great games, I just want Allen to be great like that. Maybe he won’t be, I guess we will find out. But my eyes tell me he is elite and eventually will be extremely dangerous when he puts it all together. He has such a high ceiling. 

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

The Titans, Colts, and Browns all lost today - brutally I might add.  All SB contenders.  That might need revisiting.  

 

 

After week 1, this is the pekking order:

 

1. Chiefs 

2. Chargers (yep, 2nd best team that had the best off season acquisition - Linsley)

3. Steelers 

4. Browns 

5. Bills

6. Miami

 

 

That's it.  It's going to be one of those 5. 

 

Tennessee losing Smith might be a massive deal.  The Colts have ZERO firepower.  The Browns will be good.  The Ravens have too many key injuries.  

 

Let's beat Miami please.  

I don’t care about all those other teams. It’s about beating the Chiefs, nothing else matters because they are the biggest threat to get through. We aren’t doing enough to beat them. That’s the main issue I have. It’s like dealing against the Patriots all over again. Just win a super bowl, if we need more talent, then get it. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by IronMaidenBills

[Big Blitz]

We need to win the division first.  I think everyone is getting way to ahead of themselves.  It's going to be a long season.  16 games left.

 

We got our turd out of the way last year it was Tennessee and KC.  

 

 

Sucks we can't open vs the Jets every season.  

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

This is reasonable and I agree with this take. I don’t think many of us are to far apart where we are coming from. I honestly don’t think I fully believe our WRs are the issue, but just mad because Allen threw for 51 passes and nothing much to show for it, considering QBs today had half the amount of attempts for similar or more yardage. Obviously they weren’t playing against a Pitt D, but still it really hurts to know that. Kelly had bad games, so I supposed it’s only normal for Allen to have a bad game or 2. I just sucks watching Mahomes, Brady, etc having great games after great games, I just want Allen to be great like that. Maybe he won’t be, I guess we will find out. But my eyes tell me he is elite and eventually will be extremely dangerous when he puts it all together. He has such a high ceiling. 

Yea he had a mediocre game which was not a good look after signing that big contract...its unfortunate he didn't get a layup week one lol im sure he's embarrassed.  Brady is an absolute freak at getting his offensive into the right play to the point where its suspicious 🤣 so he has bad games but it's rarely due to getting fooled.  Yea mahomes rarely has a bad game I think if we had a big time tight end target that was good at finding the holes in zone coverage like kelce josh would be even more successful on a consistent basis 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

We need to win the division first.  I think everyone is getting way to ahead of themselves.  It's going to be a long season.  16 games left.

 

We got our turd out of the way last year it was Tennessee and KC.  

 

 

Sucks we can't open vs the Jets every season.  

 

If you want to concentrate on the division first, fine. But my eyes are on the super bowl and in order to get there you have to go through the Chiefs. If you have to worry about securing your division, then forget about beating the Chiefs. Just start looking for better talent or coordinators. 

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Yea he had a mediocre game which was not a good look after signing that big contract...its unfortunate he didn't get a layup week one lol im sure he's embarrassed.  Brady is an absolute freak at getting his offensive into the right play to the point where its suspicious 🤣 so he has bad games but it's rarely due to getting fooled.  Yea mahomes rarely has a bad game I think if we had a big time tight end target that was good at finding the holes in zone coverage like kelce josh would be even more successful on a consistent basis 

Right now it’s all about Mahomes. Mahomes is king of the AFC castle until he isn’t. If Allen can’t beat Mahomes with the current talent we have, then we have to keep building. It sucks that is the case, because I thought Allen would be the type to elevate the talent that is around him, but early indications seem to indicate he’s going to need prime talent to beat KC. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

13 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

If you want to concentrate on the division first, fine. But my eyes are on the super bowl and in order to get there you have to go through the Chiefs. If you have to worry about securing your division, then forget about beating the Chiefs. Just start looking for better talent or coordinators. 

Right now it’s all about Mahomes. Mahomes is king of the AFC castle until he isn’t. If Allen can’t beat Mahomes with the current talent we have, then we have to keep building. It sucks that is the case, because I thought Allen would be the type to elevate the talent that is around him, but early indications seem to indicate he’s going to need prime talent to beat KC. 

Mahomes is great but they've got a pretty weak secondary that was suspiciously allowed to hold all year last year until the super bowl of course 🤣 they also have a razor thin amount of defensive depth since all their money is tied up on offense so any sort of defensive injury would be a disaster.  I doubt all those guys make it through 17 games and we saw what could happen when you lose a guy in a position without much depth when the bucs smoked them in the super bowl 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Paulus]

7 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So, lately I’ve come to the conclusion that our WRs just aren’t elite enough. Outside of Diggs, I just don’t think w have that one go to receiver that can just take over a game. I love Beasley, Davis, and Sanders, but they just don’t have that game take over when you need it vibe. How many times have we seen rookie WRs come into the league now and make huge differences. Look at JaMarr Chase today, Davonta Smith, and Jefferson last year. How is it they come in and put up 100 yard games, but we can’t get that regularly out of Beasley and so on? We all know Allen is great, but something seems off. Burrows and Cousins seems to be doing more with less compared to Allen. 
 

Is it Daboll or the WRs we have? Cause it doesn’t feel like Allen is to blame. 

Beasley was an All-Pro last year...

 

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, Paulus said:

Beasley was an All-Pro last year...

 

Then it’s either Allen or the coordinators that’s the problem. If it’s Allen, then we all better hope this is anomaly because we have a lot of money tied up into him. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Then it’s either Allen or the coordinators that’s the problem. If it’s Allen, then we all better hope this is anomaly because we have a lot of money tied up into him. 

Allen's gotta learn that sometimes less is more and you don't need to be looking downfield every play...not sure if the steelers defensive shuffling just before the snap was messing with that. Its impossible to blame him because he watched his defense get smoked pretty much every game last year and ironically in one of the games they shut down a great offense they gave up a hail mary TD to lose the game 🤣

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So, lately I’ve come to the conclusion that our WRs just aren’t elite enough. Outside of Diggs, I just don’t think w have that one go to receiver that can just take over a game. I love Beasley, Davis, and Sanders, but they just don’t have that game take over when you need it vibe. How many times have we seen rookie WRs come into the league now and make huge differences. Look at JaMarr Chase today, Davonta Smith, and Jefferson last year. How is it they come in and put up 100 yard games, but we can’t get that regularly out of Beasley and so on? We all know Allen is great, but something seems off. Burrows and Cousins seems to be doing more with less compared to Allen. 
 

Is it Daboll or the WRs we have? Cause it doesn’t feel like Allen is to blame. 

This was said after the Kansas City game and in the lead up to the draft, the Bills lack speed.

 

Thats why Gabe Davis is important. He’s not a burner, but he has a deeper average depth of target and finds the end zone. 

[Milanos Milano]

31 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

This was said after the Kansas City game and in the lead up to the draft, the Bills lack speed.

 

Thats why Gabe Davis is important. He’s not a burner, but he has a deeper average depth of target and finds the end zone. 

Whatever it is that we lack, McDermott better figure it out. If we need more talent, find it. If we need better coordinators, find them. Just win, just get past KC and win a super bowl. No more excuses. Losing to a team we beat handily last year doesn’t exactly instill confidence we improved enough to beat KC.