leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Doc said: Actually I'd like to know who prevented additional security from being provided and for that person to face some kind of punishment. There seems to be no political will to answer this question, probably the very type of question a non-biased political tribunal should investigate. Instead, we get this crazy carnival game. It’s an appropriate place to remind ourselves that Biden’s approval numbers, as bad as they are, are certainly better than those of our leaders in Congress. Very few people trust these numbskulls, deservedly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: There seems to be no political will to answer this question, probably the very type of question a non-biased political tribunal should investigate. Instead, we get this crazy carnival game. It’s an appropriate place to remind ourselves that Biden’s approval numbers, as bad as they are, are certainly better than those of our leaders in Congress. Very few people trust these numbskulls, deservedly so. It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 9 hours ago, Buftex said: It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law... Yeah, as we saw during 2020. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 9 hours ago, Buftex said: It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law... It’s presumptuous to assume others don’t “truly care” about the country when they hold opinions other than yours. It’s foolish to refuse to acknowledge the inherent bias and manipulative tendencies of a political committee in Washington. However, kudos to you if you feel that search for the greater good is the common thread running through all these gatherings regardless of which party is in charge. I look to the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate issues regarding the “rule of law”. While imperfect, there are standards of professional conduct and rules of engagement that do not exist in the underworld of Washington investigatory committees. The interesting part to me is that we likely agree on all this, or will when if the house flips later this year and the subjects/targets of political committees change sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: It’s presumptuous to assume others don’t “truly care” about the country when they hold opinions other than yours. It’s foolish to refuse to acknowledge the inherent bias and manipulative tendencies of a political committee in Washington. However, kudos to you if you feel that search for the greater good is the common thread running through all these gatherings regardless of which party is in charge. I look to the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate issues regarding the “rule of law”. While imperfect, there are standards of professional conduct and rules of engagement that do not exist in the underworld of Washington investigatory committees. The interesting part to me is that we likely agree on all this, or will when if the house flips later this year and the subjects/targets of political committees change sides. It's interesting to hear people who want to "fundamentally transform the country" talking about others not caring about the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 5 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: It’s presumptuous to assume others don’t “truly care” about the country when they hold opinions other than yours. It’s foolish to refuse to acknowledge the inherent bias and manipulative tendencies of a political committee in Washington. However, kudos to you if you feel that search for the greater good is the common thread running through all these gatherings regardless of which party is in charge. I look to the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate issues regarding the “rule of law”. While imperfect, there are standards of professional conduct and rules of engagement that do not exist in the underworld of Washington investigatory committees. The interesting part to me is that we likely agree on all this, or will when if the house flips later this year and the subjects/targets of political committees change sides. Don't forget, Republicans had the chance to have a greater representation on this committee... but in their attempt to further promote their BS narrative that nothing nefarious happened on 1/6/2020, they declined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 22 hours ago, Doc said: Actually I'd like to know who prevented additional security from being provided and for that person to face some kind of punishment. Ask the Speaker of the House. Capitol security reports into the Speaker's office. I'm sure Nancy will be forthcoming and agreeable in answering all questions about why requests from Capitol Polce on duty that day for additional security were refused and ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 23 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Well, if that’s all there is, the hearings will certainly be a dud. But if they have evidence of a plot to prevent certification or that those with authority to call in help to stop the insurrection intentionally did not do so, then we should see it. And that kind of evidence wouldn’t be something seen on Capitol security cameras. The best part is you are actually arguing that the FBI couldn't find a shred of evidence to prove this but you think a bunch of politicians will. 17 hours ago, Buftex said: It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law... Ignorance must be bliss, but to watch the summer of 2020 burn down cities without repercussions, ignore laws for how ballots are distributed and collected, and you have this charade after impeaching because Trump riled them up, it must be hard to just see the problems Trump caused. And before you go full stupid, I accept the 2020 election is what it is based on Covid but still would like to improve the future elections so these questions are not asked again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: The best part is you are actually arguing that the FBI couldn't find a shred of evidence to prove this but you think a bunch of politicians will. I am not arguing that at all because I understand the difference between an FBI investigation and a congressional one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: I am not arguing that at all because I understand the difference between an FBI investigation and a congressional one. Then I ask again- what do you expect them to find with this hearing? Anything criminal the FBI can find much easier, and is better equipped. There is truly nothing of importance or validity that they COULD find that has not been found by the FBI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Then I ask again- what do you expect them to find with this hearing? Anything criminal the FBI can find much easier, and is better equipped. There is truly nothing of importance or validity that they COULD find that has not been found by the FBI. Once again, there is a tremendous difference between an FBI investigation and an congressional investigation. There are also things that could be bad that don't amount to be crimes. There are things that might amount to crimes but lack sufficient evidence to bring a charge (since the DoJ is only supposed to charge when the believe they will convict, with few exceptions) I don't have any real expectations of the hearings. I do not know what they have. I do not believe this is the final "we got him!" of Trump. I am not confident that actual criminal charges will follow the hearings But I do know that there are things a congressional investigation might uncover and disclose that the FBI never would reveal. And I know that if we want to prevent insurrections in the future, we better have a clear idea of what happened on January 6th, regardless of whether or not it sends people to jail. I find the idea of "it's either actual chargeable crimes or nothing" to be a bright line that does not reflect reality and allows people to take political coverage to defend their own side from bad behavior. It's a handwaving dismissal of potentially real issues that people will claim for their own political interests. Edited June 6, 2022 by ChiGoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 28 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Once again, there is a tremendous difference between an FBI investigation and an congressional investigation. There are also things that could be bad that don't amount to be crimes. There are things that might amount to crimes but lack sufficient evidence to bring a charge (since the DoJ is only supposed to charge when the believe they will convict, with few exceptions) I don't have any real expectations of the hearings. I do not know what they have. I do not believe this is the final "we got him!" of Trump. I am not confident that actual criminal charges will follow the hearings But I do know that there are things a congressional investigation might uncover and disclose that the FBI never would reveal. And I know that if we want to prevent insurrections in the future, we better have a clear idea of what happened on January 6th, regardless of whether or not it sends people to jail. I find the idea of "it's either actual chargeable crimes or nothing" to be a bright line that does not reflect reality and allows people to take political coverage to defend their own side from bad behavior. It's a handwaving dismissal of potentially real issues that people will claim for their own political interests. I truly believe you are being honest but when you have to defend each simple concept with three long paragraphs, maybe consider it is just political hackery. As I keep asking what do you think you might find out? Or do you actually think the FBI is keeping secrets to benefit Trump? We know what happens on January 6th, and I fully support arresting those who were violent or broke into the capitol but you keep acting like they are doing an investigation when it is only opposition research funded by the US taxpayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I truly believe you are being honest but when you have to defend each simple concept with three long paragraphs, maybe consider it is just political hackery. As I keep asking what do you think you might find out? I think this is the big problem. If you are looking for a prediction or clear marker, I cannot give it to you. I do not know what the hearings will show. But I also know that the standards for a criminal investigation and a congressional investigation are very different. If people don't understand that, then I'm not sure what the point of further discussion is because we'd just be talking past each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 8 hours ago, Buftex said: Don't forget, Republicans had the chance to have a greater representation on this committee... but in their attempt to further promote their BS narrative that nothing nefarious happened on 1/6/2020, they declined. They declined because they knew it was a political tribunal, and that the goal of the committee was to shape the narrative moving forward. That’s what political parties do. They also knew that should something nefarious have occurred, gathering evidence of a crime and prosecuting that crime would be handled by law enforcement. I’m actually surprised that you don’t know that. Be that as it may…it’s been nearly a year and a half. What’s the Jan 6th committee uncovered with respect to Donald Trump on a criminal basis as it relates to the actions of the god-awful morons that behaved criminally on January 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: They declined because they knew it was a political tribunal, and that the goal of the committee was to shape the narrative moving forward. That’s what political parties do. They also knew that should something nefarious have occurred, gathering evidence of a crime and prosecuting that crime would be handled by law enforcement. I’m actually surprised that you don’t know that. Be that as it may…it’s been nearly a year and a half. What’s the Jan 6th committee uncovered with respect to Donald Trump on a criminal basis as it relates to the actions of the god-awful morons that behaved criminally on January 6? But MAGA's think that law enforcement is in on some conspiracy, when it is convenient for their conspiracy theories. Our political system wasn't always this hopelessly dysfunctional, even when we have had heavy disagreement. When Clinton was impeached, as absurd as that situation was, elected Republicans and Democrats weren't threatening to burn everything down...and they cooperated with investigations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 9 hours ago, ChiGoose said: I think this is the big problem. If you are looking for a prediction or clear marker, I cannot give it to you. I do not know what the hearings will show. But I also know that the standards for a criminal investigation and a congressional investigation are very different. If people don't understand that, then I'm not sure what the point of further discussion is because we'd just be talking past each other. I am literally asking what could possibly be found by this hearing, that is not simply opposition research, that the FBI would not find easier and better? We know crimes were committed, so arrest them. If you think there was a conspiracy let the FBI handle it, because we all know politicians lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 This is a political stunt. The FBI would be investigating any criminality and would have already uncovered something well before now. That this needs to even be clarified is amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 Liz Cheney is by far my favorite very Conservative Republican 🙂 (I did not like her father) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I am literally asking what could possibly be found by this hearing, that is not simply opposition research, that the FBI would not find easier and better? We know crimes were committed, so arrest them. If you think there was a conspiracy let the FBI handle it, because we all know politicians lie. And I am continuing to say that a congressional investigation is not an FBI or even criminal investigation. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. The committee’s remit is NOT to look for crimes. It’s to understand what happened and recommend legislation to prevent it in the future. Continued deflection to the FBI and saying that nothing went wrong if there was no chargeable crimes is just asinine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 38 minutes ago, ALF said: Liz Cheney is by far my favorite very Conservative Republican 🙂 (I did not like her father) Enjoy her while she's there. Which won't be much longer. Joe Manchin OTOH... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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